ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

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jeidsath
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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by jeidsath »

My daughter and I went through a few pages together, with her asking what the words for everything were. She was delighted: "ἱπποπόταμος, that's the same in English too!"

I think that I might take a page at a time and teach myself to quickly identify every image on the page.

I did notice quite a few missing accents though, on the pages we looked it:

47.1
48.2b
49.8
49.9b
49.11
49.13
50.8
51.10
52.5
52.16
54.4
54.8a
54.10
54.12
54.19
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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by bedwere »

I'm delighted too! Hopefully you'll be able to imbue her with your love for the language. As for the missing accents, they are an editorial choice: I basically copied and pasted from LSJ. For example:


47.1 πῠελ-ος

Thank you for taking the trouble to report these!

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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by jeidsath »

That's a bad digitization of the LSJ. They are in the print edition. This maintains the accents, for example: http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=93922

Here is a a downloadable digitization that has them: https://archive.org/details/Lsj--LiddellScott

Looking at the missing accents in your link, I think that UChicago has left them out whenever the word was compressed into a paragraph of entries that only differed by the suffix.
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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by bedwere »

In principle i could stack the accents as explained here, but it would be a pain in the tushie to go through the whole book.
I thought that UChicago didn't bother because the educated reader would figure out...

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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by mwh »

Joel, Will you explain to your daughter why it's a horse-river rather than a river-horse?

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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by jeidsath »

mwh wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:44 am Joel, Will you explain to your daughter why it's a horse-river rather than a river-horse?
Even though she has a stuffed horse named Hippos that I brought from Lexington, she would likely call me a silly dad if I brought it up.

And I don't know the answer. It seems strange in Greek too. Euphony? Linnaean taxonomy?
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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by jeidsath »

I am very late, but was going through the first page to learn the body parts again, and I think that there are some initial issues. I noticed them before, but didn't have the leisure to type out a long post about them.

1.3 ὦμος, ὁ
...
1.6 βρᾰχ-ίων [ῑ], ονος, ὁ
1.7 ἁρμός, ὁ
1.8 ἀγκάλη [ᾰ], ἡ ἀγκᾰλ-ίς, ἡ

The Latin here is given as 3. umerus 6. brac(c)hium, 7. armus, 8. ulna.

From the picture and the Latin, I believe that what is meant is 3. the shoulder proper, 6. the whole arm, 7. the shoulder with upper arm, 8. the elbow with forearm.

That would be, I think, 3. πρυμνότατος or πρυμνὸς ὦμος or πρυμνὸς βραχίων (Homeric, see the LSJ discussion under ὦμος) though I suppose ὦμος also works alone, 6. βραχίων, 7. ὦμος, 8. ὠλένη

(And we get elbows out of it, which are otherwise strangely missing in our ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ.)

I prefer the above. That said, for completeness, "7. shoulder with upper arm, 8. elbow with forearm" are not necessarily what an English speaker would think of looking at the picture. My own American self would say, ignoring the Latin and looking at the picture, "7. upper arm 8. forearm". This would be 7. βραχίων 8. πῆχυς.

Regardless, even if you like neither of my above ideas, the following strike me as impossible: ἁρμός (shoulder-joint?), ἀγκάλη/ἀγκαλίς (mostly "ἐν ἀγκάλαις in bent arms").
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by bedwere »

Thanks, Joel. I'm going to go with

1.3 ὦμος, ὁ
πρυμνότατος ἢ πρυμνὸς ὦμος, ὁ
πρυμνὸς βρᾰχ-ίων [ῑ], ονος, ὁ
...
1.6 βρᾰχ-ίων [ῑ], ονος, ὁ
1.7 ὦμος, ὁ
βρᾰχ-ίων [ῑ], ονος, ὁ
1.8 ὠλένη, ἡ
πῆχυς, ὁ

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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by jeidsath »

Looks good to me!

For 1.11 cinctus = waist (?) = ἡ μέση, I can't find this meaning for ἡ μέση in the LSJ article. ἔχεται μέσος in the μέσος article seems not to work as a substantive.

I think that ὀσφῦς is best for "waist", but the following words can also work:

πρότμησις
ἰξύς
ζώνη (literally "belt", but "Ἄρεϊ ζώνην ἴκελος" from the Iliad, says the LSJ)
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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by bedwere »

I'd avoid Homeric terms, if possible, since we are trying to be conversational. I'll go with ὀσφῦς/ἰξύς . No idea why I came up with μέση!

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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by jeidsath »

1.14, 1.15, 1.16

This isn't really a suggestion to change anything. τὰ γεννητικὰ ὄργανα is immediately communicative, and attested in Galen, but I had trouble imagining Plato saying it, and thought that there might be a more natural formation. Here is what I could find in the LSJ. I haven't checked the Onomasticon. A number of these are more euphemistic/metaphorical. In neutral conversations though, I'd personally expect "τὰ αἰδοῖα"

genitalia:
τὰ αἰδοῖα, οἱ ἀναγκαῖοι τόποι, ἀμφίκαυστις, τὰ ἀφροδίσια, κένταυρος, τὰ ἄρθρα, γόνος, τὰ μήδεα, τὰ (γεννητικὰ) μόρια, παιδογόνος φύσις, ἡ χώρα, ἵππος, κτείς, ταῦρος

muliebria:
παιδοπόρος γένεσις, τὰ γυναικεῖα, γλωσσόκομος, δελφάκιον, δορίαλλος, Εὐρώτας, ἴκταρ, ἱπποκλείδης, κέλης, κῆπος, κνέωρον, κόκκος, κύσθος, λειμών, μηριόνης, μύρτον, πεδίον, πλατίστακος, ρόδον, σαβαρίχις, σάβυττα, σάκανδρος, σάραβος, σέλινον, σῦκον, τιτίς, ὁ τόπος, ὕσσακος, χελιδών, χοῖρος

virilia (membrum virile):
ἀνδρεία, ἐρέβινθος, καυλός, κέρκος, κωλῆ, ληκώ, μύκης, ὅπλον, πάσσαλος, πέος, πόσθη, ῥόμβος, ῥόπαλον, σάθη, σάννιον, σαύνιον, σαύρα, σχοινίον, σωλήν, τὸ τερμέρειον (dub.), τύλος, φαλλός, γονίμη φλέψ, ψωλή, περίνεος, κόκκοι
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by bedwere »

I'll keep those in mind for the λεξικὸν ἐρωτικὸν ἐν εἰκόσιν :D

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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by jeidsath »

I'll watch the Index Librorum Prohibitorum for the release.
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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by jeidsath »

1.22 patella ἐπιγουνίς

The LSJ gives a couple of examples where ἐπιγουνίς is used for ἐπιγονατίς, but ἐπιγουνίς usually means the thigh/thigh-muscle above the knee.

I think that this entry should be ἐπιγονατίς. An Ionic form is ἐπιγουνατίς. Other far less common words for it from the LSJ seem to be ἐπιμυλίς, κόγχη, μύλη, περιγονατίς, βάτελλα, βατέλλιον.
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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by bedwere »

Good idea.

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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by jeidsath »

And this is it for parts of the body. Sorry to break it up into so many posts. I will try to make it into a single post for any future pages.

1.35 palma παλαμη

παλάμη would need its accent. However, it is poetic, only rarely used for the physical "palm" by Homer. I think that θέναρ would be better.

1.37 pollex ἀντίχειρ

I'd list ἀντίχειρ as secondary to μέγας δάκτυλος
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Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Post by bedwere »

Yes, please. One post per page.

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