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Post by opoudjis » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:58 pm

69.17 I am delighted to see the Modern Greek for café, καφενεῖον. But that kaf-en- stem should put you in suspicion: it's a Katharevousa adornment of the Demotic καφενές, which is in turn a loan from Turkish kahvene < kahve-hane < Persian qahveh-khaneh "house of coffee".

https://anemourion.blogspot.com/2017/09 ... st_53.html (drawing from a 1980s book on 19th century café culture) reports that some 19th century café owners rejected καφενεῖον as barbarous (too close to kahvene) and used καφεῖον. Hepites' 1912 French–Modern Greek dictionary (https://books.google.com.au/books?id=m0 ... ον&f=false) also offers it as an option. I'm delighted to see the Modern Greek for café, but I reluctantly agree with my 19th century antecedents: καφεῖον is to be preferred.

... and it has the benefit of not-so-accidentally being the same as Esperanto kafejo (its -ejo suffix is taken from -εῖον.)

70.3, 70.5 You're using φάκελος for both "folder" and "envelope"; and Modern Greek does the same. I normally applaud the use of Modern terms, but the Ancient meaning "bundle" seems too far removed. Might you consider δίπτυχον for "folder"? And καλύπτρα or θύλακος for "envelope"?

72.2 πηκτικὴ ὑγρότης? Surely πηκτικὸν ὑγρόν.

72.7 ξηρο-ποιὸν μηχᾰν-ημα, ατος, τό. Modern Greek just calls this a "little pistol" (πιστολάκι), which I'm not suggesting. But Modern Greek would also never refer to dried hair as ξηρά, only στεγνά; ξηρά μαλλιά is dry hair, as in pathologically dry, flaking off. (And note that LSJ defines ξηραίνω as "dry up, parch", I would suggest στεγνωτήρ (which in Modern Greek is a hand dryer).
Last edited by opoudjis on Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by bedwere » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:42 pm

Thank you! I'll include the changes in the new revision.

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Post by opoudjis » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:21 pm

73.3 σῑτ-ηρὸν πνεῦμα, ατος, τό: There are a few points against this. πνεῦμα for distilled alcohol is not Ancient (just as distillation wasn't), is not mediaeval (at least, not in Trapp's Lexikon), and is barely going to be recognisable from Modern Greek ("alcohol" is οἰνόπνευμα, though that is a Modern calque; the vernacular had borrowed Italian spirito as σπίρτο.) But more to the point, "wheat spirit" is a description, which also applies to gin and (now) vodka. This is a drink originally from a particular place, it should be treated as a loanword, and the Latin does just have vischium. Conceding and using οὐίσκιον, which is what Modern Greek does (without the -ον) is the most clean way forward.

73.6 ὑᾰλ-ῐνον ποτήριον οἴνου, τό, ὑᾰλ-ῐνον ἔκ-πωμα οἴνου, ατος, τό. Of course, noone is going to say all that, it'll just be ποτήριον (like Modern Greek) or ἔκπωμα. I see in LSJ that the adjective ὑαλοῦν does get used for ἔκπωμα, and it wouldn't be that absurd, just as in English, to generalise "glass" to denote a drinking vessel. (Early Modern Greek did with γιαλί < ὑαλίον, although Modern Greek speakers will only be aware of the other generalisation, "mirror", and even that is now antiquated.)

You differentiate wine glass from beer glass 73.21. Modern Greek has κρασοπότηρο for "wine glass", and οἰνοπότηρον, ζυθοπότηρον will be quite intelligible; I don't think it essential to specify that they are glass (and you've got ζυθοχόη 73.5 standing by for beer steins anyway.)

73.15 ἐπιτρᾰπέζ-ιος ὀθόν-η, ἡ. The fact that as a Modern Greek speaker I do a double-take, because οθόνη is now restricted to "screen", is my problem, not yours. ὀθόνη is good. τραπεζοθόνη (after the Modern τραπεζομάντηλο, from the Latin mantele) is another possibility.

73.17 λόγ-ισμα ἀργῠρίου, ατος, τό. I see the phrase in LSJ, but λόγισμα by itself seems to be unambiguous to me.

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Post by opoudjis » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:04 am

74.16 ψωμ-ίον, τό. Yes, I see it's the only instance of "bun" in LSJ, but it's neither fish nor fowl: its sense as "bread" is post-Classical (which is fine), but because of the shift to diminutives, it is the normal Modern word for bread. I'd have preferred πλακοῦς, with some expected cultural translation. If you want a small loaf of bread, which is what Hellenistic ψωμίον is ("a bun for a crocodile", no less) ἀρτίδιον is there in Diogenes Laertes.

74.20 κιτρᾶτον, τό: a delightful find!

76.3 οὐρὰ ὀχ-ημάτων, ἡ. We do indeed call a queue an οὐρά in Modern Greek (the same metaphor underlies "queue" itself); but I'd have thought στοῖχος is safer.

76.13 ὁδός ἑνὸς δρόμου, ἡ. Modern Greek has μονόδρομος; μονόδρομος ὁδός would be more succinct, at least.

77.2 αὐτο-κῑνούμενον οἰκ-ίδιον [ῑδ], τό, ὑπότροχ-ον οἰκ-ίδιον [ῑδ], τό. τροχόσπιτο in Modern Greek, "wheel-house" (σπίτι < Latin hospitium). I was going to suggest τρόχοικος, but X-οικος in Ancient Greek tends to be bahuvrihi, someone who lives in an X. Given ἁμάξοικος "wagon-dweller" in Strabo, maybe οἰκάμαξα? Cf. ἁρμάμαξα "covered wagon".

77.8 κῑν-ητό-κυκλον (ὄχ-ημα, ατος), τό. Proposed in https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp ... ων_ἐννοιῶν for motorbike, I see. But the use of Latin "motor" to mean mechanically propelled motion does not extent to Greek κινητ-, so I don't see this working. It's an αὐτοκίνητον δίκυκλον, if you'll use that calque of birota ~ bicycle...

... Which you haven't in 77.13: ποδήλᾰτον, τό is indeed what Modern Greek calls bicycles. But you don't want to emphasise that it is footpowered when it is motorised! https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Μοτοσικλέτα speaks of δίτροχα and τρίτροχα in its typology of motorbikes, and that seems safest: αὐτοκίνητον δίτροχον, maybe μηχανοδίτροχον. (The colloquial Modern Greek for motorbike is μηχανάκι, "little machine".)

At a mininum, change κῑνητό-κυκλον to -τροχον: Greek differentiates wheels from cycles...

77.24 τρίκυκλον [ῐ], τό. ... Yes, yes, yes, Modern Greek unthinkingly borrowed tricycle as τρίκυκλο. But it is a τρίτροχον, really. Modern Greek, it turns out, uses τρίτροχο for motorised tricycles (trikes) and τρίκυκλο for foot-driven tricycles.

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Post by opoudjis » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:55 am

78.26 ἀερο-σάκ(κ)ος, ὁ: ἀερόσακκος, surely. That's the accentuation used in Modern Greek too.

78.28 πέδῑλον χᾰλῑνοῦ, τό, χᾰλῑνός, ὁ. The Katharevousa for this is Herodes Atticus' τροχοπέδη "the drag or brake of a wheel", although that's more associated with trains. (Which indeed is why it shows up in your list under trains, 82.16 τροχο-πέδη ἀσφᾰλ-είας, ἡ). The vernacular for car brake, φρένο, is an Italian loanword, which doesn't help you.

78.35 ὀχημᾰτῐκὰ γράμματα, τά. I don't know what this is supposed to be, but Latin litterae tends to be something more document-like than γράμματα.

83.1 ἠλεκτρο-κῑν-ήτη μηχᾰν-ή, ἡ: should be ἠλεκτροκίνητος: don't get misled by Modern Greek no longer having two-ending adjectives. Ditto 83.3 , 83.9

83.8 κῑν-ητικὴ μηχᾰν-ὴ ἁμαξο-στοιχίας, ἡ. We can do better for locomotive. The default Modern Greek is μηχανή τρένου, "train engine" (lit. "train machine"), but I note that https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Μηχανή_σειράς_120_ΟΣΕ, a Wikipedia article on a Greek locomotive, describes it as a μηχανή έλξης, "pulling engine". So μηχᾰν-ὴ ἕλξεως [ἁμαξοστοιχίας].

84.4 τηλεφόρος δρόμος, ὁ. So much more attractive for "cable car/funicular" than the Modern Greek loan from French, τελεφερίκ (télépherique). It isn't terribly intuitive though, if you don't already know the French for cable car.

καλωδιόδρομος does occasionally show up online, and, I have to say, is a little more intuitive. (Not just because it is closer to "cable car".) But καλωδιόδρομος appears in industrial contexts, not passenger contexts; https://multitran.com/m.exe?a=3&l1=1&l2=38&s=cably renders it as "cable trough".

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Post by opoudjis » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:53 pm

85.8 ἱερὰ ἀποδημ-ία, ἡ, ἱερὰ ὁδοιπορ-ία, ἡ. Clunky for "pilgrimage", but Modern Greek does not help here: it uses the confusing προσκύνημα "act of worship", and from what I can tell, that is Early Modern Greek (it's in Kriaras' dictionary but not Lampe or Trapp.) Not finding "pilgrim" in Lampe or "Wahlfahrt" in Trapp, but the Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium confirms that the Greek term was προσκύνημα; the Slavonic term, by contrast, was a calque of ὁδοιπορία.

The correct term, then, is προσκύνημα; but given how opaque it will be to non-Greeks, ἱερὰ ὁδοιπορία should be allowed as an alternative.

86.9 ἐπιστολ-ικὸν περι-κάλυμμα [κᾰ], ατος, τό: didn't I say to get rid of φάκελος in the office context above? Here, you have. But in that case, why is envelope being listed in this dictionary twice?

91.27 κῑβωτο-ειδὲς μαγνητό-φωνον, τό. Modern Greek of course just borrowed "casette" into κασετόφωνο. If you're calquing "casette" as κιβωτός, I'd be tempted to called this κιβωτόφωνον, but admittedly people would be scratching their heads at that.

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Post by bedwere » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:56 pm

Many thanks again! Please check your mail.

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Post by opoudjis » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:39 pm

93.12 στᾰτὸν ὡρολόγ-ιον, τό. The Modern Greek for Grandfather Clock is ρολόι δαπέδου, "floor clock". I'll admit it's not that intuitive. (It was also unfamiliar to me; I thought it was also called a pendulum clock, εκκρεμές.)

94.15 βάτι, τό. In the 1919 Greek school curriculum http://iaen.vima.ekt.gr/ta_programmata_ ... λιοβάττιον , the Watt was transcribed as βάττιον, which is more pleasant. I see you're patterning βάτι after κόμμι; possible, but if you're going to add a vowel to Watt, you might as well add two. The Latin you're translating has, after all: vattium.

95.1 ὑπερ-βρᾰχὴ κύματα [ῡ], τά. 95.2 βρᾰχὴ κύματα [ῡ], τά. You mean βραχῆ. Modern Greek couldn't deal with the Attic contract here, and uses βραχέα.

95.14 νέα, τά. In Modern Greek, this is the colloquial term for "news"; the formal term is εἰδήσεις.

95.15 ἄγγελος. A messenger as a radio/TV announcer! Hm. http://www.wordreference.com/gren/παρουσιαστής says that the current term is "presenter", παρουσιαστής, and the older term is "announcer" (particular to radio), εκφωνητής. The "give a presentation" sense of παρουσιάζω is Modern. I'd have gone with ἀνακοινωτής, "one who announces, informs".

97.16 γῠνὴ ὑποκρῐνομένη ἐν τῇ σκήνῃ, γυναικός, ἡ. Notwithstanding that female actors are a recent innovation, I don't see why you wouldn't just say ὑποκρίτρια. The fact that in Modern Greek we've limited ὑποκριτής to "hypocrite" (Christ's usage matters), and replaced "actor" with ἠθοποιός, is once again my problem, not yours.

98.10 ὑποστιγμή, ἡ. Yes, that had the function of the comma, but not the form: it was a low dot. I'd prefer διαστολή, if only because Modern Greeks will recognise it as the name of the comma used in ὅ,τι.

98.11 ἄνω τελεία, ἡ. You're clearly translating by function, not form.

102.19 πολῑτ-ῐκὴ μερ-ίς, ίδος, ἡ, πολῑτ-ῐκὸν κόμμα, ατος, τό. Modern Greek only uses κόμμα, but that's a quite counterintuitive calque of French partie, as "something cut apart". I would have thought φρατρία was the more Classical form, and it does get used pejoratively in Modern Greek with reference to partisanship. (Or should I say, even more pejoratively than κόμμα.)

105.9 βᾰσῐλ-εύς, έως, ὁ. That's a rex, not an imperator; the Byzantines relished in making the point that they had the emperor, and that the Beef-Eaters in the West playing at ruling their fellow barbarians were mere ῥῆγες, reges. (They were not as consistent about the division as I like to think, though.)

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Post by bedwere » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:33 pm

opoudjis wrote: 72.7 ξηρο-ποιὸν μηχᾰν-ημα, ατος, τό. Modern Greek just calls this a "little pistol" (πιστολάκι), which I'm not suggesting. But Modern Greek would also never refer to dried hair as ξηρά, only στεγνά; ξηρά μαλλιά is dry hair, as in pathologically dry, flaking off. (And note that LSJ defines ξηραίνω as "dry up, parch", I would suggest στεγνωτήρ (which in Modern Greek is a hand dryer).
I'm not convinced with στεγνωτήρ

στεγν-όω means
A close, πώματι τὸ ἀγγεῖον Gal.17(2).160, cf. 161:—Pass., Hero Spir. 1Praef., al.; of the pores, Gal.18(1).145.
2 make a building watertight, IG11(2).154 A 36, cf. 161 A114 (Delos, iii B.C.): —Pass., of embankments, χώματα ἐστεγνωμένα PSI4.315.25 (ii A.D.).
II make costive, Alex.Aphr.Pr.1 Praef. (Pass.); check discharge, μήτρα ἐστεγνωμένη Dsc.1.23; ὦτα πυορροοῦντα στεγνοῖ Id.2.81.
2 compress, πάπυρος στεγνουμένη Id.1.86; ἔριον μαλακὸν ἐστενωμένον (fort. ἐστεγνωμένον) Heliod. ap. Orib.46.19.2.
I did find στεγνωτήρ in Dimitrakou, but it means orthodontic device.

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Post by opoudjis » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:28 am

Yes, I saw that in the LSJ definition, that στεγνός < στεγανός is properly "watertight". But with ξηρός properly "dried up", neither adjective is quite right.

We're at an impass then: how does Ancient Greek refer to drying hair? ξηρός offends my Modern Sprachgefühl, which is not a strong argument, but does raise a query; you are right that στεγανός would not have started with the right meaning either.

I can find no instances of dry/drying/dried + hair among the Perseus translations corpus. (I am astonished that Perseus' English search does no stemming, though perhaps I shouldn't be; you need to search for English inflections separately.) For drying clothes, I can only find Odyssey 6.98 εἵματα δ᾽ ἠελίοιο μένον τερσήμεναι αὐγῇ; but we don't want a Homeric τέρσομαι here.

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Post by mwh » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:31 am

Ancient ships needed to be dried out after spending much time at sea. Thucydides uses ἡ ξηρότης of fresh ships (7.12.3), and ξηρός simply means dry, not necessarily dried up. When they get waterlogged they need to be beached to διαψύξαι them, dry them out by airing them (ib. 4). Hair after bathing will have been dried the same way, in the open air, no hair dryers required. It helps to have a warm climate.

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Post by bedwere » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:43 am

Our game is to figure out what an ancient Greek would have called a modern thing, if he had seen one.
It seems also to me that the word for hair drier should be something connected with ξηρός. If you object to ξηρο-ποιὸν μηχᾰν-ημα, ατος, τό (which is rather ugly, I admit), why not using (τριχο)-ξηραντήρ
or (τριχο)-ζηραντήριον?

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Post by bedwere » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:33 am

opoudjis wrote: 76.3 οὐρὰ ὀχ-ημάτων, ἡ. We do indeed call a queue an οὐρά in Modern Greek (the same metaphor underlies "queue" itself); but I'd have thought στοῖχος is safer.
Since οὐρά can me said of
II. of an army marching, rearguard, rear, X.An.3.4.38, etc.; ἡ οὐ. τοῦ κέρατος rear-rank, ib.6.5.5; κατ᾽ οὐράν τινος ἕπεσθαι to follow in his rear, Id.Cyr.2.3.21, cf. 2.4.3; ὁ κατ᾽ οὐ. the rear-rank man, ib.5.3.45; ἐπ᾽ οὐράν to the rear, Id.Ages.2.2; “εἰς οὐράν” Ael.NA16.33; ἐπ᾽ οὐρᾷ τῶν ἱππέων in rear, X.HG4.3.4; κατ᾽ οὐρὰν προσπίπτειν to attack in rear, Plb.2.67.2.
let's have both.

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Post by opoudjis » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:57 pm

Hair drying: welp, I think Aristotle confirms that it is ξηραίνω and not στεγνόω in Ancient Greek:

Problemata 966b:
ἢ τὰ μὲν ἐκτὸς γίνονται θερμότεροι, τὰ δ’ ἐντὸς περιψύχονται διὰ τὸ βρεχομένων αὐτῶν ἀεὶ ξηραίνεσθαι ὑπὸ τοῦ ἡλίου τὰ πέριξ; τούτων δὲ τοῦτο πασχόντων αἱ τρίχες ξηραινόμεναι λεπτύνονται καὶ πυρροῦνται. καὶ πάντες δὲ οἱ πρὸς ἄρκτον πυρρότριχες καὶ λεπτότριχές εἰσιν.

Or is it because they [fishermen] are warmer in their outer parts, but their inner parts are chilled, because, owing to their getting wet, the surrounding parts are always being dried by the sun? And as they undergo this process, the hair being dried becomes fine and reddish.
Problemata 932b:
Διὰ τί λουσάμενοι τῇ θαλάττῃ θᾶττον ξηραίνονται, βαρυτέρᾳ οὔσῃ τῶν ποτίμων;

Why does one dry more quickly after washing in the sea, although sea water is heavier than fresh?
.... OK, I stand humbled here. Modern Greek really does differentiate between something being dry of excess moisture (στεγνώνω), and something being dried stiff, dried of vital moisture (ξεραίνω); clothes and hair normally do the former, and if your hair is doing the latter, it is dry flaky hair; if your clothes do the latter, they have been burned stiff. But this is clearly a Modern innovation, and Modern Greek would never use ξεραίνω the way Pseudo-Aristotle did.

You guys are right about ξηραίνω applying to hair drying in Ancient Greek; but I hope you understand why I had to check; the one-line glosses in LSJ were not enough to rule out that the distinction between excess and vital moisture was older than Modern Greek.

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Post by bedwere » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:55 pm

With ξηραίνω included, LJS has a total of 18 forms! I like ὑποξηραίνω: dry up a little. :D
Anyway, your questioning is always very welcome!

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Post by bedwere » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:39 pm

opoudjis wrote: 77.2 αὐτο-κῑνούμενον οἰκ-ίδιον [ῑδ], τό, ὑπότροχ-ον οἰκ-ίδιον [ῑδ], τό. τροχόσπιτο in Modern Greek, "wheel-house" (σπίτι < Latin hospitium). I was going to suggest τρόχοικος, but X-οικος in Ancient Greek tends to be bahuvrihi, someone who lives in an X. Given ἁμάξοικος "wagon-dweller" in Strabo, maybe οἰκάμαξα? Cf. ἁρμάμαξα "covered wagon".
I'm actually replacing my choices with ἁρμάμαξα and οἰκάμαξα.
opoudjis wrote:78.35 ὀχημᾰτῐκὰ γράμματα, τά. I don't know what this is supposed to be, but Latin litterae tends to be something more document-like than γράμματα.
I'm going to keep γράμματα for documents:

opoudjis wrote: 86.9 ἐπιστολ-ικὸν περι-κάλυμμα [κᾰ], ατος, τό: didn't I say to get rid of φάκελος in the office context above? Here, you have. But in that case, why is envelope being listed in this dictionary twice?
There are indeed a few repeated entries.
opoudjis wrote: 98.11 ἄνω τελεία, ἡ. You're clearly translating by function, not form.
Any suggestion? How do you call the semicolon in modern Greek when it means ... a semicolon?

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Post by opoudjis » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:17 am

> Any suggestion? How do you call the semicolon in modern Greek when it means ... a semicolon?

You anticipated the answer in your rendering of "?". It is of course λατινικὴ ἄνω τελεία.

See for example this post, bemoaning the fact that people are increasingly using Roman punctuation in Greek: https://www.verianet.gr/post/34148-o-th ... otimatikoy

> Φτωχή σε λέξεις; φτωχή σε περιεχόμενο; φτωχή σε πνεύμα.
> Ξαναδιαβάστε την τελευταία πρόταση της προηγούμενης παραγράφου –σωστά τώρα–, αφού το «φερόμενο» ελληνικό ερωτηματικό που είδατε και προσπεράσατε ήταν η λατινική άνω τελεία.

> Impoverished in vocabulary; impoverished in content; impoverished in spirit.
> Now re-read the last sentence of the previous paragraph, correctly, since what passed for a Greek interrogative, which you didn't notice, was the Latin semicolon.

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Post by opoudjis » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:18 am

> οἰκάμαξα

I momentarily considered οἰχάμαξα; but... that would be just a tad excessive, wouldn't it?

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Post by bedwere » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:11 pm

opoudjis wrote:> οἰκάμαξα

I momentarily considered οἰχάμαξα; but... that would be just a tad excessive, wouldn't it?
Only available if the license plate says Athens. :lol:

Thank you for everything. I'll be sending what I have so far by email.

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Post by opoudjis » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:42 am

I'm doing a second pass through the dictionary with Bedwere, and I'm posting my findings here as documentation for users of the dictionary.

There are two useful dictionaries which provide Ancient Greek glosses alongside Modern Greek (and French), as part of the 19th century effort to undo Greek language change. The latter, which I already know about, is Skarlatos Vyzantios' dictionary, third edition (1874): https://books.google.com.au/books?id=j64OAAAAQAAJ. The former, which I didn't know about, is Theocharopoulos (1834): https://books.google.com.au/books?id=uVBQAAAAcAAJ — which is a thematic dictionary: it's in fact something of a forerunner of this dictionary, although it's a little too early for "modem".

(It's also instructive for its earlier stage of Modern Greek: where the language now expresses "to button" as κουμπώνω < κομβίον, for example, Theocharopoulos has θηλυκώνω < θηλυκόν "feminine": it's the notion of buttons/buckles as insertion, that we see persisting in "male" and "female" connectors.

We've agreed to indicate in the dictionary which renderings are neologisms, which are Modern Greek, and which are earlier forms of Modern Greek (mostly Katharevousa).

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Post by opoudjis » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:03 am

2.10. μῆλον τοῦ Ἀδάμ is Modern Greek, but not Ancient nor (as far as I can tell) Mediaeval. λήκῠθος is Ancient.

2.13. It took me a very long time to work out (because the LSJ definition doesn't use the English word, and Skarlatos mispelled the citation), but the Ancient Greek for "hair parting" is λίσσωμα (LSJ: crown or spot on the head from which the hair sets in different ways), λίσσωσις (LSJ: setting of the hair from the crown of the head), both in Aristotle, History of Animals, 491b.

The Modern Greek, FWIW, is not χώρισμα but χωρίστρα < χωρίστρια; and Puristic Greek was happy to use the word from the 1890s on (including in archaeological journals).

3.5. χοληδόχος κύστις is the medically correct term for "gall bladder"; but the Tragedians, just like the Modern vernacular, are fine to refer to it by metonymy as χολή "gall".

3.14. σπονδυλική στήλη is Modern Puristic; the classical terms are νωτιαῖα ἄρθρα, νωτιαία ἄκανθα, and ῥᾰχις. (The true Demotic word is ραχοκοκκαλιά "back-bone".)

3.21. σπλάγχνα is innards (lung, heart, liver), not entrails. LSJ indicates that Aeschylus explicitly differentiated between the two. The word εὐσπλαγχνία "compassion" already tells you which side of the divide σπλάγχνα is on. The distinction persists in the modern language; entrails might be σπλάχνα, but they are not the default kind of σπλάχνα.

4.14. Analectris = shoulder-pad is a (possibly tenuous) link made in Lewis & Short http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... analectris (it’s not a shoulder-pad in the modern sense); and the variant reading of analectris, analemptris, is even more tenuous: the word as defined in LSJ is a “suspensory bandage”.

Modern Greek just calls shoulder pads "padding" (βάτα < Venetian ovata, Italian ovatta), which suggests to me (ὠμιαία) στοιβή.

5.6. "bathing drawers" do turn up in LSJ as ᾤα or (ᾤα) λουτρίς.

5.8. For "bathing suit", the best I could find was the 19th century λουτρο(ϋ)ποκάμισον.

5.9, 5.10. Modern Greek has the loan πυτζάμα for pyjamas, and νυχτικό for nightgowns.

The catch with Ancient Greek is of course that they slept naked under blankets, so “bed-clothes” in LSJ refers to blankets and not pyjamas—and an Ancient description would conflate the two.

Skarlatos’ dictionary suggests for nightclothes (habit de nuit) ἐγκοίμητρον, εὐναῖον, ἐνεύναι(νι)ον. Both ἐγκοίμητρον and ἐνεύναιον are attested, but both seem more blankets than nighties (in the modern sense). Ancient grammarians gloss χλαῖνα as ἐγκοίμητρον; a χλαῖνα is a cloak/blanket.

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Post by bedwere » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:28 pm

σὺ εἶ ὁ ἀνήρ :D

4.14 Removed μάλαγμα
2.10 added dagger for μῆλον τοῦ Ἀδάμ, τό
2.13 λίσσ-ωμα, ατος, τό and λίσσ-ωσις, εως, ἡ
3.5. added χολή
3.14. σπονδυλική στήλη has dagger and moved to third place
3.21. σπλάγχνα was removed
5.4 Now using ᾤα λουτρίς
5.6. Added λουτρο(ϋ)ποκάμισον.
5.9. ἐνεύν-αια, τά
5.10 ἐγκοιμ-ήτωρ χῐτών, ῶνος, ὁ

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Post by opoudjis » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:01 am

To be clear to both τᾶν Βεδούηρος and all others: we're already discussing these offline, but I'm passing on the main curiosities from our discussion to this thread, for future users of the Lexicon.

The dagger Bedwere refers to is our indication that a form is Modern Greek; a double dagger, that it is Mediaeval or Puristic; an asterisk, that it is a neologism. Users of the lexicon can use these as caveats.

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Post by opoudjis » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:53 am

6.1. Bedwere had proposed for "button" σφαῖρᾰ, σφαίρ-ωμα, τρόχισκ-ος, corresponding to Latin globulus, buto. While LSJ cites ἐσφαιρωμένα ἀκόντια as spears with “buttons” at the point, this is clearly an archaic use of “button”, unrelated to clothing": the ancients simply didn’t have buttons as we now understand them, and we should be looking at either later Greek for “button", or the Ancient Greek for “buckle”.

The surviving vernacular word for button is κομβίον "knot". In the 19th century the word used was θηλυκωτήριον < θηλυκόω “to female = to insert a plug into something”; θηλύκιον meant “buttonhole". θηλυκωτήριον survives in contemporary Greek in the narrower sense of a clasp on female clothes.

I've also suggested ancient περόνη and ἔχμα, which correspond to "buckle".

6.2. The blog https://e-didaskalia.blogspot.com/2016/ ... t_326.html says that the initial rendering of zipper in the 1910s was τορμοσυνάπτης, “peg-linker”, though I have found no corroboration of this. The universal term now is the French loan φερμουάρ.

6.8. The dictionary distinguishes between neckties and cravats, but it uses an awkward paraphrase, pannus collaris. (The Latin Wikipedia does better: https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focale.) The French gloss foulard corresponds to neckerchief. I find λαιμομάνδηλον in use in a few dictionaries from the early 19th century, including https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ME ... ον&f=false where it renders follette. It is based on μανδήλη < Latin mantele.

6.9. The suggested χειρίδιον appears in LSJ to be a specialist medical glove, but it’s still a glove. Add χειρίς. Byzantine and Early Modern Greek used χειρόκτιον, χειρόρτιον < χείρ + ἀρτάριον “felt shoe”. Given that we have χειρίς, it is unnecessary to appeal to them.

6.13. The σκῐάδειον is a parasol, which is indeed an umbrella; but add the older Modern forms ἀλεξίβροχον, ἀλεξιβρόχιον.

6.16. For pince-nez, we will only have paraphrases (I can't find a Modern Greek name); I suggested δίοπτρα ἐπίρρινα.

6.18. In line with the rendering of button, I've suggested περόνη περιχερίδων; the “clasp, brooch” sense of περόνη is most appropriate here.

6.23. For earring add πλάστρα, τά, ἄρτημα, τό

6.25. I'm nervous with just “bag” for a backpack, though Modern Greek permits σακίδιον (it is an ancient diminutive, which allows its meaning to be specialised). Maybe allow Modern σάκος πλάτης as an option.

6.27. Gem is both πολυ-τελὴς λίθος and πολύτιμος λίθος; the former is more common in Hellenistic Greek, but the latter is also used. Only the latter is used in Modern Greek.

6.28. For bracelet, add περίχειρον, βραχιάλιον. (The latter survives in Modern Greek as βραχιόλι.)

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Post by opoudjis » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:59 am

7.1. ὑγιής is clearer for "healthy"; ὑγι-εινός is more "sanitary, hygienic".

7.4. The dictionary differentitates perfrictio "cold" and coryza "sniffles"; four of the six languages in the dictionary (including English) gloss them the same. Add to the latter κατάρρους (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catarrh: "The word "catarrh" was widely used in medicine since before the era of medical science, which explains why it has various senses and in older texts may be synonymous with, or vaguely indistinguishable from, common cold, nasopharyngitis, pharyngitis, rhinitis, or sinusitis.")

7.13. The Modern Greek for prescription is συνταγή (γιατρού).

7.16. The Modern Greek for measles is ἱλαρά, ἡ, as a euphemism (makes you look red, as if you are joyful). In fact, the Modern Greek has been re-archaised: the original vernacular from was ίλερη.

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Post by bedwere » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:37 pm

Thank you, Nick! I stopped updating the posts, but the latest code version can be found on GitHub.

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Post by opoudjis » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:01 am

8.6 λούομαι τῷ καταχύτλῳ for "to shower" is a nice find! https://e-didaskalia.blogspot.com/2015/ ... t_548.html suggests καταιονάω; but “foment = bathe with warm lotions” is not quite showering, and Hippocrates uses it to refer to bathing “ailing parts”. I see that Modern Greek has taken up καταιονητήρ as a learned equivalent of “a shower” (or "an enema"). But that is stretching the ancient word.

9.8 ἕψω is narrowly "to boil". For "to cook", add later μαγειρεύω.

10. μετάδοσις is correct in Ancient Greek for "communication"; Modern Greeks will be confused by it though, because it has narrowed to "transmission" (as a calque of the Latin, presumably), and Modern Greek has gone with ἐπικοινωνία instead.

10.1. "Greeting" has been glossed as ἀσπ-ασμός; add χαιρετισμός, χαιρέτισμα, which doesn’t imply embracing/kissing as strongly, and in fact is closer to Latin salutatio.

10.3. ἀσπάζομαι ὡς ἀπιών for "to farewell": add ἀποχαιρετίζω, though that is only attested in a scholiast, so it is likely mediaeval. (Modern Greek has ἀποχαιρετάω.) LSJ also lists ἀπαγορεύω (though it is perilously ambiguous with “forbid”), and συντάσσομαι (ditto).

10.4. λόγος for "conversation" is correct, but quite generic. Alternatives are διάλογος (which I'd prefer), διάλεξις, ἐντυχία, λαλιά, μῦθος, τὸ ὁμιλητόν.

10.11. "Conversation" has been glossed as διάλεξις. Modern Greek uses συνομιλία, which is also attested in antiquity.

10.17 τὰς ὀφρῦς συνάγω for "frown": LSJ also lists ὀφρῦς δεινόω [δείνωσις], ἐφέλκω, κατασπάω, συνέλκω; συνίστημι τὸ πρόσωπον; and the single verb συνοφρυόομαι.

10.18 For παιδ-ιά "play, game", add παίγνιον.

10.20 For ἐπερώτ-ησις "interview", Modern Greek uses συνέντευξις, but that is clearly post-Classical, and ἐπερώτ-ησις is fine.

11.3. φῠσικός was used in Antiquity to mean “natural philosopher”; but the sense “physicist” is Modern (as, of course, is physics as a distinct discipline).

11.4. For ὀρυκ-τήρ "miner", the Modern Greek is μεταλλωρύχος “metal-digger"; and references to specific metals, like χρυσωρύχος, are in LSJ. μεταλλωρύχος is in LSJ Supplement, but as “sapper”.

12.2. ὀδοντο-ἰᾱτρός: correct to ὀδοντίατρος, which is what the Modern coinage for "dentist" has always been.

12.8. δείκ-της ἱματίων for "catwalk model" (calquing the Latin monstrator/monstratrix vestimentorum) is a neologism. The modern words for "model", including French mannequin, derive from the small sculptures used as artists' models; Greek used κάναβος in that sense, although it did not evolve like "model" and "mannequin" to refer to a human model.

12.15. κοσμ-ητής is much too vague and ambiguous for “wallpaperer/paper-hanger”. The Modern Greek ταπετσιέρης, from Italian tapezziere, obviously doesn’t help here. The fact that the Latin tapetarius looks like the Italian tapezziere, and is in fact derived from Ancient Greek, doesn’t help either, since a τάπης is a carpet and not wallpaper. However, the Puristic for “wallpaper” is τοιχοστρωσία, which makes sense; so as a neologism, a paper-hanger would be τοιχοστρωτήρ. (I can’t find any evidence of it having been used in Modern Greek.)

12.19. λῐθόλογ-ος: correct to λιθολόγος. This is an error in the Perseus digitisation of LSJ, which completed word suffixes, but did not always do so insightfully.

12.20. ἐρευν-ητής for "detective" is intelligible, but ἰχνευτής and ἰχνηλάτης are much better matches.

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Post by opoudjis » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:53 am

13.6. ἀσθενούχ-ημα was coined in the Akropolis World News for "ambulance", but I don’t get why the -ουχ- is used: "patient vehicle" would be ἀσθεν-όχημα, and the parallel κληρούχημα is from κληρουχέω < κλῆρον ἔχω. I’d drop it

13.11 φαρμᾰκο-πώλιον for "pharmacy" is mentioned in https://archive.org/details/copiousphra ... de/page/24, but I find no evidence that was ever used in the Ancient or Mediaeval corpus. The term that has prevailed in Modern Greek is φαρμακεῖον, and rarer φαρμακοπωλεῖον.

13.12. For φαρμᾰκο-πώλης "pharmacist", add φαρμακοποιός, which is the term that has prevailed in Modern Greek.

14.1. δῐδασκᾰλ-εῖον and παιδᾰγωγ-εῖον are "school", but this is meant to render Latin conclave scholare, which is a classroom. Modern Greek renders this as (σχολική) αἴθουσα. That involves a generalisation in (learnèd) Modern Greek of αἴθουσα from “loggia” to “(formal) room”. Of course, classrooms as distinct from schools are a Modern concept.

14.4. πίναξ for "chalkboard" is used in Modern Greek, though it is ambiguous there with “painting” and “table in document”. The disambiguating terms are more problematic when brought back into Ancient Greek: blackboard is μαυροπίνακας (*μελανοπίναξ), but if there are any boards in schoolrooms now, they are whiteboards, not blackboards: λευκοπίνακας or πίνακας μαρκαδόρου, “white-board, marker board”.

14.5. βῆμα has been given for "teacher's desk". In Modern Greek, the teacher’s desk is ἕδρα (διδασκάλου), and the student’s desk is θρανίον. (As "seat", ἕδρα in the Modern language is restricted to teachers, in fact.) Modern Greeks will do a double take with βῆμα, since that is where orators speak from, not teachers; would an Ancient Greek think any differently?

14.9. For χαρτίνη δέλτος "notebook", the Modern Greek is τετράδιον, which LSJ dates from iv AD: it’s originally a quaternion of parchment. It’s clearly been extended semantically from its original meaning of a piece of paper folded three times (8 pp); but it’s also not a neologism.

14.10. κρικ-ωτὸν γραμμᾰτ-εῖον is a neologism for "ring binder", inevitably. Modern Greek uses French loanwords, κλασέρ (classeur), and ντοσιέ με κρίκους ("folder with rings"). Given the latter, add the neologism κρικ-ωτὸν χαρτοφυλάκιον, since dictionaries gloss κλασέρ as a χαρτοφύλακας.

14.12. κᾰνών is indeed the proper Ancient word for "ruler". Modern Greek uses χάραξ, since it is used to “carve” lines, but I see no ancient use of the word to align with it.

14.13. πιλ-ητὸν γρᾰφ-εῖον for "marker": Modern Greek distinguishes between markers and pens, and despite the gloss given in the book, this is really intended to be the former. Unfortunately Modern Greek uses the pseudo-Italian μαρκαδόρος for "marker", so the neologism will have to stay.

14.14. διαρκ-ὴς στῦλος for "ballpoint pen": Modern Greek uses the French stylo as το στυλό, but that is a truncation in French of stylographe, and formal Greek fills it out to στυλογράφος. This lexicon should do the same. A ballpoint pen in Modern Greek is στυλογράφος διαρκείας (it is the usage of the pen, not the physical object, which is long-lasting: not a persistent pen, but a pen of persistence); I’d keep the distinction.

This list of English-Modern Greek translations (which looks EU-derived to me) offers more alternatives: https://el.glosbe.com/en/el/felt-tip%20pen

14.15. μολύβδ-ῐνος στῦλος for "pencil" is a neologism, and does not work: a pencil is not a leaden pen, given that stylographe intrinsically involve ink. μολύβι < μολύβδιον "little lead" is Modern Greek for "pencil", which is too vague; but I find in 19th century dictionaries French crayon rendered as μολυβδίς and μολυβοκόνδυλον https://books.google.com.au/books?id=12 ... ος&f=false, and the two still turn up in Modern dictionaries, though they are clearly antiquated. μολυβοκόνδυλον was coined in 1807: http://greek_greek.enacademic.com/102255/μολυβδοκόνδυλο. I’d preference μολυβδοκόνδυλον; μολυβδίς had a different meaning in Ancient Greek, as did μολύβδιον.

There’s a catch with μολυβδοκόνδυλον: the meaning κόνδυλος = "pen" is post-classical, maybe even mediaeval (it’s a piece of cane used as a pen, cut from one κόνδυλος (node) to the next.) Thankfully, Hepites’ dictionary has the more Ancient-compatible μολυβδογραφίς. Add that too.

14.16. ὀξυν-τήρ for "sharpener": ξύστρα in Modern Greek, and while this is a “scraper” rather than a “sharpener” in Ancient Greek, I’d add it as a modern alternative.

14.17. στῡλο-γράφος for "fountain pen": also μελανοφόρος, for fountain pen in particular (although when it was coined, it referred of course to any pen that contained its own ink, as opposed to the κονδύλια “cane pens = quills” of yore.)

14.18. ἔλεγχος for "school report": I’d disambiguate to (σχολικός) ἔλεγχος, as Modern Greek Wikipedia does: https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Έλεγχος.

14.21. οἶκος τῶν δῐδασκάλων for "staffroom": Notwithstanding the Latin oecus magistrorum, a staffroom is not an οἶκος "house". The Modern Greek (where this is used at all) is “teachers’ office”, γραφεῖον διδασκάλων.

Googling tells me that in Cyprus, a staffroom is called αίθουσα δασκάλων < *αἴθουσα διδασκάλων "room/hall for teachers". That indicates to me that Cypriots are literally translating the English “staffroom” (Cyprus was a British colony), whereas Greece took it from somewhere else. In fact, I’d be surprised if the notion of a common room for teachers even existed in the 19th century, when terminology in Greece would have been set.

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Post by opoudjis » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:17 am

15.3 ἀκρό-ᾱσις for "lecture" is indeed correct in the Ancient texts; add διάλεξις, which is the only word Modern Greek uses.

15.8 μάθ-ημα is just "lesson", it does not fully communicate the notion of "seminar". Though it clashes with διάλεξις, I suggest the neologism διαλεκτικὴ ἀγωγή. After all, what Plato and Aristotle conducted would arguably be seminars, and seminars do prominently feature the Socratic method (διαλεκτική).

15.14. There are several phrases used in Modern Greek for doctoral graduation: ἀπονομὴ διδακτορικοῦ διπλώματος (award of doctoral diploma), ἀναγόρευσις διδακτόρων (proclamation of doctorands), ὀρκωμοσία διδακτόρων (swearing in of doctorands: Greece has civil servants and graduates both publicly swear into their status).

16.2. χριστουγεννιάτικον δένδρον: χριστουγεννιάτικος is the Modern Greek adjective for "Christmas", but its accentuation does not fit with Ancient Greek; even corrected to χριστουγεννιατικός, it is a late analogical formation that doesn't accord with γεννάω, and the Ancient formation would have been * χριστουγεννητικός. Instead, I'd suggest using the adjective χριστουγέννιος, used by the 13th century historian George Pachymeres.

Even smoother would be to use just δένδρον τῶν Χριστουγέννων, which is also current: https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Δένδρο_των_Χριστουγέννων.

Christmas trees are a German and Baltic thing, and the Greek Wikipedia page notes that Greeks got Christmas trees (because the first king of Modern Greece was Bavarian) a decade before the French did. But then, a lot of this pictionary is culturally German.

16.4. στέφᾰνος τῆς νηστ-είας τῶν Χριστουγέννων: the Christmas wreath is a very recent intrusion into Greek culture from Anglo-Saxon culture, and I wouldn’t dignify it with a church-like appellation like “of the feast day of Christmas”: that implies a religious sanction it barely had in England, and certainly doesn’t have in Greece. Greeks call it Χριστουγεννιάτικο στεφάνι, and I’d call it, per suggestion above, χριστουγέννιος στέφανος.

17.1. διαζύγιον is the Modern Greek for divorce; it’s in LSJ, but in its modern meaning LSJ dates it to Eustathius, 14th century, and I’m finding it only as early as Arethas, 9th century. Even its earlier meaning of "domestic quarrel" dates only from Justinian.

There are plenty of Hellenistic and Classical words given in LSJ for "divorce": ἀπαλλαγή, ἀποπομπή, ἄφεσις, διακοπή, διάλυσις, διάστασις, δίεσις, ἐκβολή, ἐκπομπή, ἔξοδος, κοπή, λύσις, and that’s just the nouns. Some of these, clearly, are more patriarchal than others; but at least some of them deserve inclusion, as older than διαζύγιον.

17.6. παννῠχ-ίς τοῦ νέου ἔτους makes sense for New Year's Eve party, but is a neologism. Modern Greek offers only the French loan πρωτοχρονιάτικο ρεβεγιόν (réveillon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Réveillon). As with a lot of the entries in this pictionary, these are modern Western concepts, and Greek has embraced Western (typically French) words for them; if you're lucky, a pedant tried to provide a native rendering, and most of those renderings did not endure.

18.3. σκην-ὴ ἱππο-δρόμου is a neologism for "circus tent". Whatever the etymology, a circus as we now understand it is not a hippodrome; Latin Wikipedia certainly feels it needs to differentiate it as https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_hodiernus.

18.4. According to LSJ, πετευρ-ιστής for "acrobat" is only attested in Latin, and the form attested in Greek is πετευρ-ιστήρ. ἀκροβάτης is given in LSJ in inscriptions, and should also be cited.

18.11. δᾰμαντὴρ τῶν θηρίων for "animal-tamer": Modern Greek uses θηριοδαμαστής.

18.12. ἱππο-δρόμια, τά for "circus show": depends on accepting hippodrome = modern circus, so I'd consider it a neologism.

18.13. νευροσπαστ-ικὸν θέᾱτρον for "puppet show" is a neologism, though an obvious one; νευρόσπαστον has not been reintroduced into Modern Greek apart from in its figurative use of "being someone's puppet" (the meaning I know, which is now obsolete according to lexicographers), or "nervous wreck" (by folk etymology: "nervous + spastic").

18.15. λῠρ-ιστής for "violinist": this being a Modern violinist, it would be disingenuous not to refer to the modern instrument: βιολιστής.

18.16. πληκτρο-κυμβᾰλ-ιστής for "pianist" is a neologism; Puristic used κλειδοκυμβαλιστής (although in Italian the cognate clavicembalo is properly a harpsichord.)

18.20. Marquee has been glossed as ἑορτ-αστικὴ σκην-ή, calquing the Latin tentorium festivum. Marquee is inevitably μαρκίζα in Modern Greek < French marquise, but μαρκίζα is also glossed in dictionaries as προστέγασμα, and προστέγασμα seems an appropriate hellenisation.

18.21. περιᾰγωγ-ή is too vague for "merry-go-round". Modern Greek normally uses καρουζέλ, but I have found στροβιλοδρόμιον online (it is rare enough not to feature in dictionaries.)

18.24. θέᾱτρον ποικῐλ-ίας for "variety theatre": while the normal Modern Greek rendering is just βαριετέ, I have seen θέατρον ποικιλιών as a an alternative online, including in the press. (The newspaper of the Communist Party seems to like it: https://www.rizospastis.gr/story.do?id=5175675, https://www.rizospastis.gr/page.do?publ ... &pageNo=18) The plural does make sense: it emphasises the heterogeneity of what is on show.

18.25. παικ-τικὴ σχέδ-η for "playing cards": the default Modern term for a deck of cards is the Italian τράπουλα, and for a single card τραπουλόχαρτον; but official Greek uses παιγνιόχαρτον.

18.26. παίγν-ιον τῶν σχε-δῶν "card game": Greek legislation speaks of παίγνια με παιγνιόχαρτα “games with playing cards” http://policenet.gr/forum/26003 . So the antick form would be παίγνια τῶν παιγνιοχάρτων.

18.30. While the Persian ζατρίκιον < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatranj has the advantage of being older in Greek than the modern σκάκι(ον) < Italian scacchi, both should be mentioned.

18.31. χωρίον κατασκην-ώσεως "camping ground": Modern Greek exclusively uses χῶρος.

18.36. αἰώρα "hammock": the way αἰώρα is used in Plato, it seems it’s a swing and not a hammock: the point of it is that it moves:
Thus clearly do they show to any observant person that all bodies benefit, as by a tonic, when they are moved by any kind of shaking or motion, whether they are moved by their own action—as in a swing or in a rowing-boat—or are carried along on horseback or by any other rapidly moving bodies.
I’ll concede that LSJ gives an example of αἰωρέω in Hippocrates, καὶ αἰωρέειν ἐπὶ τῆς κλίνης φερομένην, which mentions κλίνη; but it is still glossed as “swing as in a hammock”. Plutarch's κλινίδιον κρεμαστόν is also glossed by LSJ as “hammock”, and that’s more clearly a bed. (It also, as it happens, matches the Latin matta pensilis.)

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Post by opoudjis » Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:47 pm

19.4. ἡλῐ-ωσις is properly exposure to the sun as a bad thing, getting sunstroke, being sunburnt. The Modern Greek for "sunbathing" is ἡλιοθεραπεία "sun-cure", and is tied up with the notion that sunbathing is somehow good for you, and in any case something to be actively pursued.

20.4. The game shown is mola lusoria, Nine Men’s Morris: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_men%27s_morris, which was known to the Romans; tic-tac-toe is a variant of the game. https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludus_tabularis gives as an alternative Latin name for the game the Greek Triodium, and the web page https://issuu.com/pispasba/docs/ identifies τρῐόδ-ιον, τό with the Modern Greek τρίλιζα (which is either Albanian or Spanish etymologically, and is in fact tic-tac-toe).

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=If ... us&f=false says the name Triodium is Neo-Latin and Modern Greek, with the spelling τριώδιον, and there are occasional 18th and 19th century references to τριώδιον/τριόδιον in Google Books.

Friedrich Berger’s The Merels Board as a Symbol, cited in https://books.google.com.au/books?id=pl ... er&f=false is a monograph on the game of Nine Men’s Morris,; it gives a raft of Modern Greek names, of which triodion is one. The main Modern term he gives for the game is δωδεκάπετρο, and there are lots of hits for it under that name: http://www.steniotes.gr/Documents/Sten- ... age337.htm http://www.paignidia.gr/el/topics/paign ... dekapetro/ . In the context of δωδεκάπετρο, you can indeed find τριώδιον as a synonym, e.ɡ. http://www.haniotika-nea.gr/118487-pneu ... topou-mas/ . The word is hard to find, because that’s a misspelling by analogy: a τριῴδιον is a kind of Byzantine chant, and the proper spelling would indeed be τριόδιον.

I think it's likely τριόδιον is a very old word for the game more commonly known as δωδεκάπετρο (ὁδός has been displaced by δρόμος in Modern Greek), though we have no evidence the word dates from antiquity. We have added the following footnote:
πολλοῖς ὀνόμασι οἱ νεοέλληνες τὸ παίγνιον καλοῦσι, ἐν οἷς τὸ δωδεκάπετρον, αἱ τριάραι, καὶ ἡ τεσσαρότα. πολλάκις δὲ τριώδιον γράφεται ἐσφαλμένως, κατὰ τὸ τριῴδιον, ἀλλὰ ψαλμὸς ὅ δε.
20.5 παικ-τικὴ ψῆφος for "piece" in board games can also be rendered as just πεσσός.

20.6 While the word σφαιρ-ιστήριον is ancient, its meaning as "billiards" is of course entirely Modern.

20.7 παικ-τικὴ τράπεζ-α is very good for "card table". The usual Modern Greek term is τσόχα “felt”, by metonymy, and gaming stores refer to τραπέζια για χαρτιά “tables for card [games]”.

20.8 τῠχ-αῖος τροχίσκ-ος is the suggested neologism for "roulette". Greek uses ρουλέτα and used to also use the Italian ρολίνα; but I have not found any attempt to hellenise the name: it’s already just ρουλέττα in 1862 https://books.google.com.au/books?id=6k ... τα&f=false. There is a τροχός της τύχης in Modern Greek, but that is a Wheel of Fortune.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=12 ... τα&f=false glosses French roulette as τροχίσκος in 1844, but arguably that does not reference the game of chance.

Modern Greek uses τυχερός not τυχαίος for “games of chance”, and I think that’s legitimate: τυχαῖος means that the game is accidental, whereas τυχηρός can mean that the outcome is left to chance. LSJ includes τυχηρὰ ἀγαθά, which are goods acquired through fortune, and not mere accidental/random goods. So I propose τυχηρὸς τροχίσκος.

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Post by opoudjis » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:08 pm

21.5 Minor scale should be rendered as in Modern Greek, as ἐλάσσων κλῖμαξ, not μικροτέρα κλῖμαξ.

21.9 For conductor, formal Modern Greek uses the full διευθῡν-τής ὀρχήστρας (with the modern meaning of "orchestra"); διευθῡν-τής on its own would be too ambiguous. The usual Modern rendering is the Italian μαέστρος.

21.12 The Latin original renders "ballet" as ballatio scaenica; the proposed rendering is ὄρχ-ησις ἐπὶ σκην-ῆς. https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Μπαλέτο does not use the phrase per se, but the notion of σκηνικὸς χορός “staged dance”, which is equivalent to ὄρχ-ησις ἐπὶ σκην-ῆς, is introduced in Wikipedia as a superset of ballet — although the phrase is found nowhere else online.

21.16 θεᾱτρικὸς διόφθαλμος can't be used for opera glasses, because διόφθαλμος is only the adjectival sense of binocular, “relating to two eyes”. The established term in Modern Greek is κιάλια θεάτρου, where κιάλια “binoculars” is a corruption of Italian occhiale. διόπτραι θεάτρου is in Hepites' dictionary, and will serve just fine.

21.21 μελό-δρᾱμα is used for opera in Modern Greek; https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Όπερα clarifies that is a broader term than “opera" (it is musical theatre in general); but we can’t be too precise here. There is a slight problem, in that melodrama in its modern derogatory sense is also μελόδραμα in Modern Greek (or more commonly its French truncation μελό).

21.23 μεσό-φωνος is used in Modern Greek for mezzo-soprano, not contralto. As confirmed in this thread https://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.php?topic=2874.0 and in Googling, there *is* no established Hellenic word for alto, other than the indeclinable κοντράλτο. But you could gloss it as ἡ βᾰθύ-φωνος: I’m seeing it turn up online in machine translation, though it appears to be very rare (since the Hellenic term is used in the masculine for "bass" instead); the Papyros dictionary definition of mezzo, though, uses it: http://greek_greek.enacademic.com/98739/μεσόφωνος.

22.1. χορός is of course the Ancient word for "chorus", this is a term that has become overloaded, and its primary meaning was and is “dance”. Modern Greek gets around this by using χορῳδία instead, although in Classical Greek (Plato) that is a song, and a chorus would be better χορῳδοῦντες.

22.3 συμφων-ιᾰκοί, corresponding to the Latin dictionary's symphoniaci, exists in Ancient Greek, but refers to singing; it would not be clear here. In reality, this is “orchestra” in the modern sense, and we cam just shrug and allow the modern sense of ὀρχήστρα here too. However, Plutarch differentiates between the σκηνικοί and the θυμελικοί in the theatre, and that’s exactly the distinction between the actors on stage and the musicians in the orchestra pit. While ὀρχήστρα is awkward in its ambiguity between the classical notion of the chorus and the modern orchestra, θυμελικοί is I think spot on.

22.7 The Dress and Upper Circle have been rendered as πρῶτον and δεύτερον διάζωμα. The Dress and Upper Circle in Modern Greek are πρῶτος and δεύτερος ἑξώστης. The established term in Modern Greek is ἑξώστης, which in Mediaeval Greek came to mean “balcony”; it has nothing near that meaning in Ancient Greek, admittedly, but neither does διάζωμα.

22.8. ἐξ-ώστρα has been proposed for theatre gallery. In formal Modern Greek, the gallery is just ὑπερῷον.

22.9 πρόθυρ-ον θεάτρου is proposed for theatre foyer. This is https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Φουαγιέ (French “foyer”) in Modern Greek, but Wikipedia glosses it as προθάλαμος (θεάτρου). The latter is not Classical, and daggered, but I think it’s ok as an alternative to πρόθυρ-ον.

22.12 μελό-δρᾱμᾰτ-ιον has indeed been used for operetta in Modern Greek, although https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ελληνική_Οπερέτα says the term did not take root.

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Post by opoudjis » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:22 pm

23.4 βᾰθύ-χορδον, τό should be removed from "violoncello"; it means "double bass".

23.7 The formal Greek for "tuba" is βαθεία σάλπ-ιγξ, https://www.attiko-odio.gr/el/Classical ... wind/Tuba/, and I find no evidence βᾰρῠ-τονος σάλπ-ιγξ has ever been used.

23.8 αὐλός is indeed the ancient word for flute/pipe; the Modern Puristic word is πλαγίαυλος https://www.attiko-odio.gr/el/Classical ... ind/Flute/ , the traverse flute, and I would add it, since the Ancient pipes were not modern flutes.

23.9 I'm not sure where συμφώνιον comes from for "accordion", and I would not include unless it has explicit usage. It turns out accordion (Modern Greek ακορντεόν) derives from ἀχόρδιον, which we might as well use.

23.10 αὐλὸς ὀργάνου for "organ pipe" should be disambiguated as "church organ pipe", as is done in https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Εκκλησιαστικό_όργανο: αὐλὸς ἐκκλησιαστικοῦ ὀργάνου

23.11 ἱσπᾱνικὴ κῐθάρ-α for "guitar" is not a phrase that has seen usage in Greek (a disambiguation might be νεωτέρα κιθάρα); but I welcome this calque from the Latin.

23.13 ἅρπη has been suggested for "harp". There is nothing Hellenic about harp: it’s purely Germanic https://www.etymonline.com/word/harp. ἅρπα is used in Modern Greek, but we’ve been trying to avoid modern loans.

23.14 ἀλπικὴ κῐθάρ-α has been suggested for "zither". (This dictionary is so German.) As it turns out, the Modern Greek musical tradition also has a dulcimer, but it’s known in its Persian guise as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santur > σαντούρι (see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom), and it is hammered, not plucked. The default Modern Greek rendering of a zither is as a santouri, because it looks pretty much the same whether plucked or hammered.

There *is* a plucked variant of the instrument, the https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κανονάκι , in Arabic the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanun_(instrument) (and yes, the Arabic derives from Greek κανών, and Κανονάκι is just its modern diminutive).

… And it was a Byzantine instrument, and the Byzantine name for it *was* https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ψαλτήρι[ον]. I’d suggest moving ψαλ-τήριον from "harp" to "zither", because the psaltery was more of a zither than a harp. Also add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigonion, because people are pretty sure this ancient instrument was a psaltery too.

That leaves us with nothing for harp. I would in fact suggest the neologism ὄρθιον ψαλτήριον (by contrast to the ἐπιγόνιον).

23.17 ἁρμον-ική has been suggested for "harmonica". This is φυσαρμόνικα in Modern Greek is a harmonica, which involves blowing (φυσάω) more immediately. I would in fact use φυσαρμονική; “harmonic” is going to be too vague, and only Italians are going to be confused by fisarmonica not being an accordeon. :-)

23.17 αὐτό-μᾰτον κλειδο-κύμβᾰλον has been suggested for "barrel organ". This is https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Λατέρνα in Modern Greek (from Italian lanterna via Turkish). The problem with "automated piano” is that it denotes “player piano” just as well as “barrel organ”. Maybe ἡλωτός, because the difference between a barrel organ and a player piano is that the former uses nails to sound notes? Maybe χειρόστροφος?

23.18 οὐρ-αῖον πληκτρο-κύμβᾰλον has been suggested for "grand piano". Modern Greek just calls them πιάνο με ουρά "piano with a tail", and κλειδοκύμβαλον μεθ’ οὐρᾶς would do. οὐρ-αῖος is “of a tail”, not “having a tail”, and I actually can’t find an adjective for “tailed”.

23.19 For upright piano, I'd suggest ὄρθιον κλειδοκύμβαλον.

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Post by opoudjis » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:19 pm

24.0 The Modern Greek terms for "track and field" are στίβος “track” (metonymy for ἀγῶνες στίβου), or κλασσικὸς ἀθλητισμός. No reason to change your Classical rendering as κοῦφοι ἀθλητικοὶ ἀγῶνες.

24.4 For "(sports) shorts", surely ἀθλ-ητικαὶ βράκαι, and not just βρᾰχεῖαι βράκαι.

24.5 For sprint, βρᾰχὺς δρόμος is fine, but add στάδιον, which LSJ says is the opposite of δόλιχος

24.8 For "finishing line", add γραμμή

25.1 The fixed expressions in Modern Greek for "triple jump" are ἅλμα τριπλ-οῦν or ἅλμα εἰς τριπλ-οῦν

26.0 Gymnastics has been rendered as γυμνᾰσ-τικὴ τῶν ὀργάνων; the Modern Greek is ἐνόργανος γυμναστική (https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ενόργανη_γυμναστική: remember that Modern Greek always uses three endings for Ancient -os -on)

26.4 σύντονον στρῶμα has been proposed for trampoline. The trampoline is too modern to have a Hellenic name; it’s in fact so modern that τραμπολίνο is indeclinable. Glosses of trampolines in Greek refer to δίκτυον, not στρῶμα; consider changing it to σύντονον δίκτυον.

26.8 Next to γυμνάσ-ιον for gym, hall, add γυμναστήριον, given the ambiguity of γυμνάσ-ιον. (That’s why γυμναστήριον has prevailed in Modern Greek.)

26.10 Floor exercises in Modern Greek are ἀσκήσεις ἐδάφους, which is a literal translation of “floor exercises"

26.14 "decision" in gymnastics has been rendered as ἐπικράτ-ησις [ᾰ] τῶν ψήφων. I propose κρίσις κατὰ ψήφους: https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ενόργανη_γυμναστική states that “Gymnastics is a judgement competition (αθλημάτων κρίσης)"

26.17 "bronze medal" has been rendered as both χαλκοῦν ἆθλον and ὀρει-χάλκῐνον ἆθλον. χαλκοῦν is the only term that has been used in Modern Greek. As it turns out (https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Μετάλλια_στον_αθλητισμό), in 1896, the medal was copper; it was changed to bronze in 1900, but the Greeks never changed their terminology. ὀρει-χάλκῐνον “brass” does not make sense; apparently https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κρατέρωμα is the proper Greek for “bronze”, but Wikipedia adds that both English and Greek routinely conflate the two.

27.1 The established Modern term for any sports field is γήπεδον.

27.5 ποδό-σφαιρᾰ has been used for soccer ball (e.g. https://books.google.com.au/books?id=-C ... hDoAQgyMAI), but it is not in current use.

27.6 This is a medicine ball, Modern Greek ιατρική μπάλα; so it should be rendered ἰατρικὴ σφαῖρα.

27.10. The Modern Greek colour terms κόκκ-ῐνον [κίτρῐνον] χαρτίον have been used for "red/yellow card". Normally I’d say to rearchaise κόκκινον as ἐρυθρόν and κίτρινον as χλωρόν, but there’s no pressing reason to change these. Let the red card be scarlet.

27.17 The starting whistle has been rendered as ἀρχηγὸν σύριγ-μα. In http://www.fa3.gr/nomothesia_2/nomoth_a ... o_oron.htm, it is rendered as σφύριγμα έναρξης του αγώνα, so it should be rendered as σύριγμα ἐνάρξεως. I don’t think ἀρχηγὸν is clear enough.

27.18 Penalty kick has only been rendered as ἐπανορθωτικὸν λάκτ-ισμα in Greek, and even that is rare (it is normally πέναλτι).

28.1 corner kick has been rendered as γωνι-ακὸν λάκτ-ισμα. The established term per http://www.fa3.gr/nomothesia_2/nomoth_a ... o_oron.htm is γωνιακό χτύπημα, but I don’t see why you’d need to refer to a kick as a κτύπημα.

28.5 "Final result" in Modern Greek is τελικὸν ἀποτέλεσμα.

29.5 You could translate karate from the Japanese literally as κενόχειρος, but that would be too clever by half.

29.8 Again, you could and shouldn’t translate Judo from Japanese as μειλιχιότροπος. Judo is being rendered in Latin by script, as Iūdō; contemporary Modern Greek renders it as <τζ> (Τζούντο), which is anachronistic; but <ζ> would not be that far off. On the other hand, Puristic also borrowed by script; Java is Ιάβα in Modern Greek, for example.

So I’ll reluctantly allow Ἰουδοϊκή (you need the diaeresis) over Ζουδοϊκή. On the other hand, since the final o is long, consider Ἰουδωική or even Ἰουδωνική (*Ἰούδων, Ἰούδωνος).

… No, just Ἰουδωική.

29.9 πύγμᾰχ-ος is error for πυγμάχος

29.10 A sports team in Modern Greek is always ὁμάς, but this does not refer to a totality as a group of people in Ancient Greek, so keep your rendering as is: λόχος, σπεῖρα. σπεῖρα in Modern Greek has come to refer to a criminal gang; but that is not your problem.

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Post by opoudjis » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:03 pm

The Academy of Athens published for the Athens Olympics a volume proposing Hellenic neologisms for terms associated with the Olympics: Titos Giohalas (ed.) 2004. Ελληνική ορολογία Ολυμπιακών Αγώνων. Δελτίο Επιστημονικής Ορολογίας και Νεολογισμών 8. Athens: Ακαδημία Αθηνών, Κέντρο Ερεύνης Επιστημονικών Όρων και Νεολογισμών. These have been ignored if not derided, but they can be a useful source for this enterprise.

The Iliou Encyclopaedia (Νεώτερον Εγκυκλοπαιδικόν Λεξικόν Ηλίου, 1945–1960) is also very useful for listing older Hellenic renderings of terms, which have since been abandoned.

Δημήτρης Τομπαΐδης, 1998, Λεξικολογικά της Νέας Ελληνικής, Athens: Επικαιρότητα has a list of abortive neologisms, though I dispute whether most of them were abortive.

4.25 ὑποδῠτ-ης, ου, ὁ: from Tombaidis, add obsolete λεύχειμα “white-clothes”

4.29 ἔρ-εισμα, ατος, τό: Is there any evidence this has been used for shoe heels? I’m seeing it as a gloss of fulmentum in 19th century dictionaries, but fulmentum is any support. Suggest removing, and replacing with obsolete ὑποπτέρνιον from Tombaidis (it remains in use, but only for heel cushions)

18.1 The Iliou Encyclopaedia confirms that “modern hippodrome” has been used as the Puristic for “circus”

18.5 νευροσπαστ-ικὸν θέᾱτρον: the Iliou Encyclopaedia refers to θέατρον νευροσπάστων, so the expression has been used. The encyclopaedia also differentiates between puppets (κουκλοθέατρον) and marionettes (θέατρον νευροσπάστων); the distinction is real, but κουκλοθέατρον < “doll" < Latin cucullus “hood” is too modern to be used.

21.12 ὄρχ-ησις ἐπὶ σκην-ῆς: While the Iliou encyclopaedia refers to the corps of dancers and their use on stage in general as μπαλλέτον, it does refer to “danced drama” (so *a* ballet) as χορόδραμα, “danced drama”, patterned after μελόδραμα. A δράμα is distinct from an ὄρχ-ησις, but I’d suggest adding χορόδραμα as an almost-synonym.

23.11 The Iliou encyclopaedia has used σύγχρονος κιθάρα “modern guitar” for the guitar as we now know it. Add νεωτέρα κιθάρα, since σύγχρονος means “contemporaneous” in Ancient Greek and not “contemporary, modern”.

24.5. βρᾰχὺς δρόμος for “sprint”. Add for Modern Greek δρόμος ταχύτητος, ταχυδρομία

26.13 ἐπικράτ-ησις [ᾰ] τῶν ψήφων: The Modern Greek for winning on points (featured in Giohalas’ lexicon for wrestling) is νίκη στά σημεία. You might add νίκη ἐπὶ τῶν σημείων as a modern expression, though ψῆφος is so much clearer.

30.7 βάλλω (βαλῶ, ἔβαλον, βέβληκα, βέβλημαι, ἐβλήθην) τὴν φαῖρᾰν διὰ τοῦ κᾰλάθου [ᾰ]

Correct to σφαῖρᾰν

30.8 γρονθο-σφαίρ-ισις*, εως, ἡ

This is so, so German. The English for this sport is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fistball. Maybe mention that this has already been coined in https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp ... ων_ἐννοιῶν

30.9 ἁρπαστόν, τό

This is meant to be rugby. https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp ... ων_ἐννοιῶν uses Ἐπισκυρικὴ Ποδοσφαίρισις. ἐπίσκῡρος is a ball game which LSJ itself says was like rugby. *shrug* maybe. It’s no more daring a revival than that of ἁρπαστόν.

30.11 λήπ-της, ου, ὁ for “catcher”: ὑποδοχεύς in Giohalas

30.12 ῥοπᾰλοφόρος, ὁ for “batter”: ῥοπαλιστής in Giohalas

30.15 μικρὰ σφαῖρᾰ

Should be just σφαῖρα βασεωσφαιρίσεως.

31.2 μόνος ἀγών: Singles in tennis are known in Modern Greek as both μόνος and απλός (i.e. ἁπλοῦς)

31.3, 31.4, 31.13 ἀντι-σφαίρ-ισις ἐπὶ χόρτου, εως, ἡ, ἀντι-σφαίρ-ισις ἐπὶ πεδίου σκληροῦ, εως, ἡ, πεδίον τῆς ἀντι-σφαιρ-ίσεως

Modern Greek would refer to these as γήπεδον instead of πεδίον, since γήπεδον is used for all sports fields

31.9 δικτῠ-ωτὸν πλῆκ-τρον: I have not succeeded in finding any term for tennis racket of Hellenic origin: only ρακέτα has ever been used. So this neologism will need to stand.

31.12 συλλογ-εὺς τὰς σφαίρας. Should be τῶν σφαιρῶν. Giohalas' terminology from the Academy of Athens has proposed σφαιροσυλλέκτης (instead of the generally used “ball boy”, which is not even in Greek characters), and that particular coinage has occasioned ridicule from the press (https://www.tovima.gr/2008/11/24/books- ... lwssia-74/).

31.14 ὑπτί-α πληγ-ή for “backhand": ἀνάστροφον κτύπημα in Giohalas

31.15 ἐκβολ-ή, ἡ for “service": even Giohalas has left this as σερβίς

31.16 τύμμα, ατος, τό for “smash” in tennis: Giohalas has yielded to the vernacular here: καρφί “nail”, used for a vertical blow. This is unsatisfactory; the Modern metaphor has no special claim over any other. Maybe add κάθετον to τύμμα?

31.17 εὐθεῖα πληγ-ή for “forehand”: παλαμιαῖον κτύπημα in Giohalas

32.1 ῥοπᾰλο-σφαίρ-ισις for cricket: Giohalas' terminology from the Academy of Athens has already proposed ῥοπᾰλο-σφαίρ-ισις for baseball. If that coinage were to be used instead of βασεωσφαίρισις, cricket and baseball would need to be differentiated as ἀγγλικὴ καὶ ἀμερικανικὴ ῥοπαλοσφαίρισις.

32.6, 32.7 πεδίον ῥοπτρο-σφαιρ-ίσεως, ῥοπτροσφαίρισις for golf course, golf. Cite https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp ... ων_ἐννοιῶν again for this neologism. The analogy being drawn between mousetrap pegs and golf is obscure, but ροπτροσφαίρισις the only Hellenic rendering I can find for golf. However if a golf club is a κορύν-η, as proposed in 32.10, then κορυνοσφαίρισις would be just as apposite. (However, you have also used κορύν-η in 39.3 for a bowling pin, so you use 39.4 κορυνο-σφαίρ-ισις, εως, ἡ to mean bowling.)

32.13. The game of polo made it to Byzantium by the fifth century (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzykanisterion), where it was called τζυκάνιον.

32.14 διαξῐφ-ισμός for fencing. Modern Greek does a very subtle differentiation: διαξιφισμός is a sword fight, and ξιφομαχία has the same meaning; but the sport of fencing, which is not meant to end up with anyone dying, is called “sword-exercise”, https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ξιφασκία.

33.9 ἐφίππ-ιον, τό. Add κασῆς.

33.14 οἰκ-ήματα, ατῶν, τά. This is meant to be the starting point of a horse race. I assume this should rather be just what it was for human runners: τέλος, καμπτήρ, νύσσα, γραμμή, etc.

33.15 τύμμα, ατος, τό: Glossed as “thrust”, which Giohalas in turn renders as νύξις

33.18 περίδοσις, εως, ἡ. For wager, surely ἐνέχυρον, or στοίχημα as given by LSJ, which is Mediaeval/Modern Greek (and if you look at the Hesychius passage, it turns out LSJ misunderstood what he was saying.)

34.4 κάρφος σχισ-μῆς, εος, τό. According to https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ελεύθερη_αναρρίχηση, the terminology for hooks in Modern Greek is: πλακέττες' ή "βύσματα" ή "ασφάλειες" και συχνά "γκολό".

βύσμα and ἀσφάλ-εια are quite acceptable for “hook” here; and I’m not seeing why you would call it a “nail” (let alone that the word in Ancient Greek does not seem to have meant nail, as its reflex does in Mdoern Greek). I know that you use ἀσφάλ-εια below for belaying pin, but both the hook and the pin are a kind of security device, and I’d rather we not override existing usage.

34.5 ἀκρο-βᾰτικὸς σχοῖνος, ὁ. σχοῖνος (> σχοινί) ἀναρριχήσεως in Modern Greek. Is there an ancient warrant for ἀκρο-βᾰτικὸς?

34.6 ἀσφάλ-εια [φᾰ], ας, ἡ. Unfortunately, the Modern Greek for belaying pin is the English-Greek hybrid σετάκι “little set”. On the other hand, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabiner in Greek is defined as "Καραμπίνερ δηλαδή ειδικοί κρίκοι ασφαλείας”. There’s not a massive amount of difference between a belaying pin and a carabiner, and to my untrained eye what is shown in the picture looks like a carabiner. So κρίκος, and the LSJ definition "eyelet-hole in sails, through which the reefing ropes were drawn,” is quite close to a belaying pin anyway.

Of course, *I* would have thought the κρίκος was the hook. But let’s go along with the arbitrary decision that Greek rock-climbers have made (or at least their Wikipedian instances.)

34.9 ὀρεινοὶ σωτήρ-ιοι, οἱ for Mountain Rescue. Refer http://www.hrt.org.gr/root.viewtag.el.a ... sortType=1 : They call themselves ὀρεινοὶ διασῶσται in Modern Greek.

35.4,35.5 τετρά-κωπος [ᾰ] λέμβ-ος χωρὶς κελευσ-τοῦ, ὁ, τετρά-κωπος [ᾰ] λέμβ-ος μετὰ [ᾰ] κελευσ-τοῦ, ὁ, for cox and coxless Modern Greek uses πηδιαλοῦχος instead of κελευστής

35.6 μονό-ζῠγος λέμβ-ος, ὁ for Single Sculls: μονόζυγο now refers to horizontal bars in gymnastics, and it looks like a neologism. The single and double sculls are referred to as απλό/μονοθέσιο σκιφ and διπλό σκιφ in Modern Greek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skiff), but we can’t use that. The Iliou Encyclopaedia calls it an ἐξώσκαλμος κέλης in its entry on λεμβοδρομία (explicitly describing it as a British sport). κέλης is a fast horse or yacht; ἐξώσκαλμος is a Modern coinage for “having its oar-hole on the outside”, which I guess means that sculls don’t really have oar-holes at all. Thus, single sculls are (admittedly awkward) ἁπλοῦς/μονοθέσιος ἐξώσκαλμος κέλης.

The one-oar-per-person boats (sculls) should be rendered as ἐξώσκαλμος κέλης, while the two-oar-per-person boats, which are what was around in antiquity, can stay λέμβ-ος. Going at least by the diagrams, the rest are λέμβ-ος; 35.9 is glossed as double sculls, but a double scull is two rowers with four oars; the picture is two rowers with two oars. (The giveaway of course is the German gloss. A double scull is Doppelzweier, “double-two” = four oars; but the gloss provided is Zweier, coxless pair (two oars). So we would only need to add a διπλοῦς/διθέσιος ἐξώσκαλμος κέλης, if there were any actual double sculls depicted.

Which shows Albert’s English rowing terminology is no good.

35.8 φῠλᾰκ-τικὴ τῶν σκαφῶν στέγ-η, ἡ for boathouse: Hepites’ dictionary has λεμβώλκιον, and λεμβών, ῶνος, ὁ, and subsequent dictionaries have λεμβοστάσιον. Also add νεώσοικος, although of course properly that is ships, not boats.

36.9 σκῠλᾰκώδης κολύμβ-ησις, εως, ἡ. This is a neologism, and I’d rather not use it. Crawl in swimming is called in Modern Greek ἐλευθέρα κολύμβ-ησις (or κρόουλ). In fact, there isn’t any distinction made in the sport between freestyle and crawl: "There are four main strokes used in competition and recreation swimming: the front crawl, also known as freestyle, the breaststroke, the backstroke and the butterfly … As such, the front crawl stroke is almost universally used during a freestyle swimming competition, and hence freestyle is used metonymically for the front crawl.” (Wikipedia) I think this is a confusion from Albert, and you should in fact gloss this as ἐλευθέρα κολύμβ-ησις as well.

36.10 βᾰτ-ήρ, ῆρος, ὁ: This is meant to be a springboard. In Modern Greek, ἀναπηδητήριον is springboard and βᾰτ-ήρ is platform.

36.11, 36.12 κατά-δῠσις ἐκ τοῦ βᾰτ-ῆρος, εως, κατά-δῠσις ἐκ τῶν ἰκρίων, εως, ἡ

The distinctions are somewhat obscure, and I’m going to have to use Albert’s German, not her English. Saltus artificiosus is springboard diving, Kunstspringen, and salts de turri is Turmspringen, “high diving”. In the Olympics, they correspond to springboard, and what is now called *platform* diving in English. So κατάδυσις ἐκ τοῦ ἀναπηδητηρίου for the first, and κατά-δῠσις ἐκ τοῦ βᾰτ-ῆρος for the second (which you currently have as first).

36.13 κατά-δῠσις διπλ-ώσεως, εως, ἡ: That’s a jackknife dive, with looks like 36.12, but this is meant to be a gloss of 36.13, "racing dive". In Modern Greek this is βουτιά or βουτιά εκκίνησης “starting dive”, with the vernacular word for “dive”, which differentiates a dive from the sport of diving. The differentiation is useful, but you can’t use the vernacular word; so I’d propose the neologism δύσις ἐκκινήσεως. Giohalas confirms, by rendering “racing drive” as ἐκκίνησις

36.15 πήδ-ημα εἰς τὸ ὕδωρ: Wasserspringen in German, which is merely the generic word for “diving”; I’d just use κατά-δῠσις.

37.9 χῐονο-δρομ-ικὴ κᾰλῠβ-η, ἡ: You will indeed see καλύβα σκι in Modern Greek for “ski hut", but I suspect that’s an Anglicism or Germanism; the more established term is a calque from French not German: χιονοδρονικόν καταφύγιον.

37.13 πολυ-καμπὴς κατά-βᾰσις, εως, ἡ: per Google, the term in Modern Greek is τεχνική κατάβασις (i.e. “artful downhill skiing”)

37.14 χῐον-ικὸν στρῶμα, ατος, τό. There is also an established modern term for this: χιονόστρωσις.

37.19 τᾰλαντ-οόμενος κατα-βαίνω. This is a neologism for Wedeln. Since the technique dates from the 50s, there will be nothing more Hellenic ever coined than Βέντελ.

37.20 νέα χιών, όνος, ἡ, κονιώδης χιών, όνος, ἡ, ἀλευρώδης χιών, όνος, ἡ: The idiomatic expression in Modern Greek is φρέσκο χιόνι “fresh snow”, which corresponds to νέα χιών. You will see πούδρα “powder”, but it’s clearly a recent loan, and this article https://www.vita.gr/2012/02/01/fitness/ ... y-xionioy/ comically refers to “fresh snow and powder”, before glossing “powder” as “fresh snow”. I would leave out ἀλευρώδης χιών, it’s a calque from the Latin and has no corresponding Greek usage.

38.3 τεχν-ικὴ πᾰγο-δρομία, ἡ. Modern Greek calls this καλλιτεχνική παγοδρομία “artistic”, but that’s a Modern distinction between τεχνική “artful, artisanal” and καλλιτεχνική “artistic”; no reason to change.

38.8 κῑν-ητὸν τέρμα, ατος, τό. It took me a long time to work out what a puck/“tee” was doing in curling. Again, Albert is being German: the tee is a goal in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_stock_sport (“Bavarian curling”), which is like curling, but with a target (the Daube, which Albert renders as “tee”.) I’d just call it a στόχος, a target.

38.10 παίγν-ιον τῶν πετρῶν ἐπὶ πάγου [ᾰ], τό: I could come up with a neologism like παγολιθοβολία for “curling", but what would the point be…

38.16 χῐονο-δρόμιον τῶν ἑλκ-ήθρων, τό: Sled racing is ἑλκηθροδρομία, which includes dog sled racing and luge. Your gloss is the more conservative one, but I’d also suggest ἑλκηθροδρόμιον. It does not seem to be an established term, but https://www.athinorama.gr/travel/travel ... artid=8010 has coined it for exactly this meaning: Και μια λεπτομέρεια που θα εξιτάρει τα παιδιά: όταν έρχονται τα χιόνια, η αυλή «μεταμορφώνεται» σε αυτοσχέδιο ελκηθροδρόμιο για ατελείωτες τσουλήθρες! “Here’s a detail to excite the kids: when snow falls, the [hotel] courtyard is transformed into an improvised toboggan run, for endless sliding fun!” (The passage is artless enough to use, next to the novel coinage ελκηθροδρόμιο, the vernacular τσουλήθρα, properly a playground slide, in the sense of toboggan.)

39.4 κορυνο-σφαίρ-ισις, εως, ἡ for “bowling” should be attributed to https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp ... ων_ἐννοιῶν

39.10 ἑλῐκο-ειδὲς πῠρο-βόλον, τό is a neologism for “rifle”, and a somewhat awkward one. Greek has always used the Turkish tüfek, even in Puristic (τυφέκιον, vs Demotic τουφέκι). The cover-all term in the Iliou Encyclopaedia for rifles is ὄπλον, but discussion of the origins of rifles does suggest φορητὸν πῠρο-βόλον as a better generic term. πύραυλος was also used for rifle, before it ended up used for rocket (Tombaidis). Add obsolete πυρίκτυπος σίφων (Tombaidis)

39.14. In Modern Greek, the sport of archery is τοξοβολία

39.20 βολὴ ἐπὶ πηλίνους [ῐ] σκοπ-ούς / στόχους, ἡ: Shooting sports in Modern Greek are σκοποβολή, target-shooting, and clay-pigeon shooting is σκοποβολή ἐπὶ πηλίνους στόχους https://www.shooters.gr/αγωνίσματα-πήλινου-στόχου/

40.9 ἄγκος, εος, τό for “valley”: also κοιλάς

40.19 θάλασσα [θᾰ], ἡ for “sea”: add πέλαγος

41.8 οὐράν-ιον [ᾰ] τόξον, τό; ἶρις, ιδος, ἡ: τόξον is used by Aeschrio to refer to rainbows, according to LSJ; but given that ἶρις is the completely mainstream Ancient name, I don’t see good reason to mention its modern counterpart “heavenly arch”.

41.24 καῦμα, ατος, τό for “heat wave”: also καύσων

41.28 κρυσταλλό-πηκτος σταλαγ-μός, ὁ for “icicle": In Modern Greek, παγοκρύσταλλος

41.29 ξηρότης, ητος, ἡ: or ξηρασία, and the latter is how Modern Greek renders “drought”, which I presume is what is actually intended here

41.31 κατα-κλυσμός, ὁ for “flood": or πλήμυρα

41.35 πρό-γνωσις τοῦ οὐρᾰνοῦ, εως, ἡ: The Modern Greek for “weather forecast" is πρόγνωσις τοῦ καιρο­­ῦ, but that’s the modern meaning of καιρός to mean “weather", and your phrasing looks best

42.4 οἴκ-ημα, ατος, τό: Modern Greek uses ὄροφος for “storey of building". Ancient Greek uses it in that sense in compounds (three-roofed = tree-storey); the noun on its own is not quite there, but maybe add it as a modern form.

42.5 κατάγεια, τά, ἐπίπεδ-α, τά for “ground floor”: Maybe mention Modern Greek ἰσόγειον?

42.8 σταθμὸς ὀχ-ημάτῶν, ὁ for “car park”: You could add ἁμαξοστάσιον, but that is properly a bus or train depot.

42.13 στεγ-αστήρ, ῆρος, ὁ, κᾰλυπτ-ήρ, ῆρος, ὁ: Also κεραμίς, κέραμος

42.15 παρα-θῠρό-φυλλ-ον, τό for “window shutter”: this uses the modern Greek παράθυρον for “window”. There are older terms in LSJ: θύρα θυρίδος, and κάλυμμα [θυρίδος]

42.20 πλαίσῐ-ον τῆς θῠρίδος, τό for “window frame”: Also in LSJ θυριδεύς, though it is inscriptional

42.21 ὑάλεος [ᾰ] / ὑάλινος πίναξ [ῐ], ᾰκος, ὁ: add Modern ὑαλοπίναξ

43.1 πλεκ-τὴ ξῠλ-εία, ἡ for “half-timbered”: presumably a neologism. Modern Greek for half-timbered, unsurprisingly, is ἡμιξύλινος.

44.3 Βαρόκκειος has been used in the Iliou Encyclopaedia for “Baroque”, and that is superior to the proposed Βαρόκος, since it makes it blatant that it’s an adjective.

44.4 κογχο-ειδὴς τρόπος, ὁ for Rococo: This does deserve explanation: ἀπὸ τοῦ γαλλικοῦ Rocaille, ὡς ἀρχικῶς ὁ τρόπος ἐκλήθη, κογχοειδῶς γὰρ τὰ κτίρια ἐκόσμουν. I would add Ῥοκοκό as an alternative: κογχο-ειδὴς is very hard to guess.

44.5 ἀνθηρὸς τρόπος, ὁ for Art Nouveau: At least this Latin rendering has a contemporary equivalent, Italian stile floreale, French Stile Floreal (though that is arguably a subset of Art Nouveau); and the connection with flowers makes sense.

44.6 ἐκφορ-ά , ἡ: Yes, though this term is vague for what is meant here. Per https://lexilogia.gr/forum/showthread.p ... ο-παράθυρο , the most formal rendering in Modern Greek is παράθυρο προεξοχής, so θυρίς προεξοχῆς

44.11 ἰχνο-γρᾰφία, ἡ. This is a Greek word, but only attested in Vitruvius. Add the Modern Greek κάτοψις

44.12 ὀρθο-γρᾰφία, ἡ. Again Vitruvian, and even more dangerous given that orthography has prevailed as the sense of the word. Add the Modern Greek πρόσοψις

44.13 σᾰνίδ-ιον [ῐδ] θῠρίδος, τό for “window sill”. The Modern Greek term is the Turkish περβάζι, which has been folk-etymologised, by no less than Coray, as περιβάσιον, a term which has seen some use in the past (Tombaidis). The usual contemporary paraphrase is πλαίσιον θυρίδος, though that is not just the window sill, but the entire frame.

44.14 πολύ-στεγος πύργος, ὁ for “high-rise, skyscraper”: The French gloss explicitly selects “skyscraper”, while the German is ambiguous between “high-rise” and “skyscraper”. For skyscraper, οὐρανοξύστης is the Modern calque.

44.17 συνᾰφὴς οἰκί-α, ἡ. While the Modern term is μεζονέτα, it is explained as a house with a μεσοτοιχία “party wall”, and μεσότοιχος οἰκία turns up in LSJ with just that meaning, in papyri.

45.1 δίαιτα [ῐ], ἡ: This does not seem particularly specific for “apartment". Woodhouse gives οἶκος, οἴκημα, δόμος, δῶμα, μέλαθρον. Modern Greek has calqued the French "apartment" as διαμέρισμα

45.2 δωμάτ-ιον [ᾰ], τό: Woodhouse annoyingly gives all the same glosses as for apartment, plus δωμάτιον

45.3 δῐαιτ-ητήριον, τό for “living room”: Modern Greek has καθιστικόν, but I’m not insisting it be included. I’m not sure whether that is the meaning of δῐαιτ-ητήριον in Xenophon, but it might as well be.

45.4 θάλᾰμος [θᾰ], ὁ for “bedroom”: Modern ὑπνοδωμάτιον, also not insisting it be included.

45.12 περίπᾰτ-ος, ὁ for “corridor": Per LSJ, that’s a covered walk, which is still outdoors. Woodhouse recommends δίοδος; the notation “use δίοδος” means he concedes it’s not fully equivalent. Modern Greek has διάδρομος, although the (post-classical sense) of that and διαδρομή is “passage”

45.17 θριγκ-ὸς κλίμᾰκος, ὁ, δρύφακτ-ος [ῠ], ὁ for “railing”: θριγκ-ὸς κλίμᾰκος is a neologism. The normal Modern word is the Latin loan κάγκελον, but you will see the formal term κιγκλίδωμα (κλίμακος) as well, formed on the basis of Ancient κιγκλίς “latticed gate”.

45.22 πλαίσῐ-ον θύρας [ῠ] , τό for “doorframe”: LSJ gives κανονίς as used in papyri. The Modern terms, κάσωμα (from Italian casa), κούφωμα (hollow, which is properly the space for a door), are not quite right. πλαίσιον is probably best, but should still be considered a neologism, I have no evidence it has been used.

46.1 σκευο-θήκη, ἡ for “cupboard”: Woodhouse suggests ἀποθήκη, but I think σκευο-θήκη will do. The Latin term armarium has made it to Greek (https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Αρμάρι, though the Turkish ντουλάπα is far more common.) κελλάριον is a post-classical loan from Latin for cupboard (not cellar), which is still in use in Greek. LSJ also suggests πυργίς, πυργίσκος

46.8 βιβλιο-φῠλάκιον [ᾰ], τό for “bookcase”: Also βιβλιοθήκη (ambiguous in both ancient and modern Greek with “library”)

46.9 ζύγαστρον [ῠ], τό for “drawer”: Mediaeval and Modern συρτάριον (“something you drag”). Is ζύγαστρον explicitly a drawer?

46.11 ἐπιτρᾰπέζ-ιος ὀθόν-η, ἡ for “tablecloth”: neologism, has not been used, though Theocharidis’ 1832 dictionary does use ὀθόν-η. Modern (via Latin) τραπεζομάνδηλον

46.21 ἀκτῑνο-φων-ικὸς δέκ-της, ου, ὁ: Cite the Akropolis World News as the source; ἀκτινοφωνία is an abortive neologism in Modern Greek

47.5 νιπτήρ, ῆρος, ὁ, λου-τήριον, τό: Add λουτήρ

47.13 κερᾰμ-εᾶ πλάξ, πλᾰκός, ἡ: κεραμίς should be enough for “ceramic tile", though I recognise the Modern Greek πλακάκι (diminutive of πλάξ)

47.18 ἀνθρωπ-ίνη τρῡτάνη [ᾰ], ἡ: Is the “human” really necessary? Modern Greek has ζυγαριά μπάνιου = τρυτάνη λουτροῦ, and indeed we say the same in English: bathroom scales

47.19 ὑγι-εινὸς χάρτ-ης, ου, ὁ for “toilet paper": χαρτίον ὑγιείας in Modern Greek, but no good reason to change

47.20 ἐπιτόν-ιον, τό for “tap”: Modern Greek uses βρύσις, by extension from its primary meaning of “fountain”; but that is too far removed from its ancient sense.

49.2 φρύγ-ετρον [ῡ], τό: This does not seem to have been exactly the same thing, but it is etymologically related to what has ended up as the Modern word for toasted bread, φρυγανιά; the modern words for toaster, which you can't use, are τοστιέρα and φρυγανιέρα (the suffix is obviously Italian and French).

49.12 μᾰγειρ-ικὴ μηχᾰν-ή, ἡ: Food processor, calqued literally in formal Greek as the inelegant ἐπεξεργαστὴς τροφίμων, which you will have to use; μᾰγειρ-ικὴ μηχᾰν-ή would have to be considered a neologism. (Colloquially, food processors are just called μίξερ; then again, “food processor” is not colloquial in English either.)

49.14 πλαστήριον, τό: No evidence that this has ever been used, in ancient or modern times, for “rolling pin". Are you trying to disambiguate the Modern πλάστης, which in ancient Greek would be moulder, creator? (In Modern Greek it’s both Creator and rolling pin.) And while πλαστήριον does occur in Modern Greek as πλαστήρι, it’s not a rolling pin, but a rolling board; I’d drop it as confusing.

49.15 τρυηλίς, ίδος, ἡ: Much rarer than the term Woodhouse recommends, τορύνη

50.3 κρεο-κοπτικὴ μηχᾰν-ή, ἡ for “mincing machine”: That’s a neologism; the Modern word in use is κρεατομηχανή

50.6 ἀρτ-όπτης, ου, ὁ: A term only attested in this meaning in Latin. I’m tempted to suggest the neologism ὀπτήσιμος πίναξ.

50.13 μικρὸν κοχλι-άριον, τό: this is right enough, and Hepites uses that phrase to gloss the vernacular κουταλάκι. But the idiomatic expression in English is not "small spoon", but “teaspoon"; and the idiomatic expression in Modern Greek is κουταλάκι του γλυκού, "dessert spoon"; so I’d suggest adding κοχλιάριον τραγημάτων (neologism)

50.15 ἑλκ-υστήρ, ῆρος, ὁ for “corkscrew”: The usual word is the French τιρμπουσόν, but ἐκπρώμαστρον has been used as the Hellenic expression for it. My one hesitation is that I can’t work out the etymology for it, and I can’t find it in older publications. μάσσω, so “kneading out beforehand” as a description of what the corkscrew does?

51.2 ξυστικὸν σίδηρον, τό: you’re glossing the Latin here for “iron for ironing”, but λειωτικόν would be more accurate. I see that irons were invented in the 15th century, and they have always been σίδερο in Greek, with the disambiguation at most being σίδερο για σιδέρωμα “iron for ironing”. However, Jannaris in his 1883 German-Greek dictionary gives the alternatives σιδήρωτρον, ὁμάλιστρον. The first still presupposes the modern verb σιδηρόω (vernacular σιδερώνω) “to iron”; and the latter is given in Hesychius as a synonym of λίστρον, “shovel, spade” (used for levelling, smoothing).

So all of σίδηρον, σιδήρωτρον, ὁμάλιστρον are semantically anachronistic; but I’d give all three, with (λειωτικόν/ὁμαλιστικόν) σίδηρον as a neologistic disambiguation.

51.4 χειρο-πληθὲς σάρον [ᾰ], τό: Perhaps also ψήκτρα?

51.10 ἠλεκτρῐκὸν κᾰμῑν-ιον, τό for “electric heater”: The idiomatic Modern Greek is ἠλεκτρικὴ θερμάστρα

51.13 ῥάκος [ᾰ], εος, τό: Translating from the German Waschlappen “face cloth”, why shouldn’t this just be μάκτρον or χειρόμακτρον, as it has been elsewhere?

52.8 πηκτὸν γάλα, γάλακτος, τό, πακτά, ἡ: For Modern equivalents of soft cheeses with Hellenic names, μυζήθρα https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizithra , ἀνθότυρος https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthotyros. And of course χλωρὸς τυρός “fresh cheese” is the same thing.

52.16 τρωκ-τὸν κόμμῐ, (κόμμεως) τό for “chewing gum”: this is a neologism. Add μαστίχη, which is the proper cultural equivalent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastic_(plant_resin)

53.2 πέμμα, ατος, τό: πλακοῦς is the usual equivalent, though of course πλακοῦς is flat

53.7 τετᾰρῑχ-ευμένα μῆλα, τά, ἠρτυμένα μῆλα, τά for “preserved fruits”: I’m finding references to ἑψημένα μῆλα (in water *and* wine) in the medical authors

53.11 παστά, τά for “pasta”: I see some etymologies derive pasta from the Greek for "barley porridge", but this is very far from intuitive. The Modern Greek formal term is ζυμαρικά, τά < ζύμη “dough”.

53.12 σκωληκοειδὴ παστά, τά: The 19th century abortive attempt to rid the language of the Italian μακαρόνια (we don’t differentiate macaroni and spaghetti in Greek) was σκωληκίδια. (I have only found derisive references to the form from modern bloggers, but it is plausible enough.)

53.18 πλᾰκοῦς, οῦντος, ὁ for “pizza”: I won’t object

53.27 τόμος, ὁ: this is generic term, and it’s a modern coinage; but if we’re going to use a generic term, let’s go with τέμαχος

53.28 φρυκτὰ μῆλα, τά: these are pommes frites = fries: fried potatoes, not apples! In Modern Greek, τηγανητές πατάτες, so τηγανηταὶ (or, better attested in antiquity, τηγανιστὰ/ταγηνιστὰ) γεώμηλα

53.38 οἰνό-πνευμα, ατος, τό: This is merely “alcohol”, not specifically spirits. Spirits are distilled beverages, which would properly be called ἀποσταζόμενα ποτά, as a subclass of οἰνοπνευματώδη ποτά “alcoholic beverages”. However, spirits are almost always called οἰνοπνευματώδη, with “alcoholic beverage” termed instead ἀλκοολοῦχα ποτά. You can call them ἀποσταζόμενα to be literal, but the usual modern expression is οἰνοπνευματώδη.

53.41 λάγῡνος [ᾰ], ὁ for “wine bottle”: Woodhouse points out the cultural translation is ἀσκός. στάμνος is the most specific term.

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Post by opoudjis » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:57 am

54.5 μοῦσα, ης, ἡ, βανάνα, ης, ἡ “banana": βανάνα was used in Puristic (Iliou Encyclopaedia); it has been displaced by μπανάνα. μοῦσα is the Linnaean name, and may not have had any real currency.

54.7 Σινικὸν κίτρον, τό, πορτοκάλιον, τό: πορτοκάλι is the Modern name. The Linnaean name in Greek is attested as both κίτρον τὸ σινικόν and κίτρον ἡ πορτοκαλία, so no reason not to retain both.

54.8 χᾰμ-αι-κερᾰσ-ιον, τό for "strawberry": from Tombaidis, add obsolete ἡμεροκόμαρον, κηποκόμαρον.

54.9 Ἰδαῖον βάτον, τό for “blackberry”: βάτος and βάτον are both the plant, not the fruit. The Modern Greek is βατόμουρο = μόρον βάτου; and indeed, Hippocrates has used μόρον τοῦ βάτου. Accordingly, this should be μόρον τοῦ Ἰδαίου βάτου

54.11 κίτρον, τό for “lemon”: The citron is a distinct fruit, although the lemon is indeed a later hybrid of the citron, and the citron is the closest antiquity had to lemons. I think it appropriate to add λεμόνιον as a modern word.

54.13 φραγκοστάφῠλον [ᾰ], τό: ῥιβήσιον is what the Iliou encyclopaedia gives it under, since that is its Linnaean name, borrowed from Latin.

54.19 ᾰνᾰνᾱσιον, τό: While this form is recorded for “pineapple”, for the past century, this has been ἀνανᾶς, and I don’t see why this form shouldn’t also be added.

55.14 καρτὸν κρόμμῠον, τό: attested in Galen for “chives” (https://books.google.com/books?id=2I28B ... BD&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=7B42A ... BD&f=false). In Modern Greek, the formal word is σχοινόπρασον: https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Άλλιον_το_σχοινόπρασον

55.16 καψικόν, τό for “capsicum” is attested; given that both the Puristic καψικόν and the Demotic πιπεριά are quite new, you might as well add the latter (possibly anticked as πιπερία)

55.21 βλίτον, τό, σπανάκιον, τό for “spinach": βλίτον ”blite” is a distinct plant recorded since antiquity, and I’d leave it out; spinach was introduced in modern times to Greece.

55.22 ἐδώδιμον στρύχνον, τὸ for “aubergine, eggplant”: Mediaeval and Modern Greek μελιτζάνα, a distortion of Arabin bāḏinjān. As it turns out, the Latin melongena (and Italian melanzana) is itself derived from the Greek; so I’d sidestep the scruple here, and use daggered μελιτζάνα instead.

56.6 ἀγρεῖφνα, ἡ for “hoe”: add κτείς

56.8 ἀρδάλιον, τό for “watering can”: Attested only in Hesychius, and its gloss πυθμένας τῶν κεραμίδων does not give me confidence that it is useful. It would be safer to use ὑδρία. Modern Greek has ποτιστήριον, though its Septuagint sense is “drinking-trough”; the ambiguity of ποτίζω to mean both “give to drink” (of animals) and “irrigate, water” (of plants) is ancient, so that ambiguity is feasible for ποτιστήριον too. But in case you want something less ambiguous, you might also consider the neologism ἀρδευτήριον.

56.9 κηπουρ-ικὸς σωλήν, ῆνος, ὁ, κηπουρ-ικὸς σίφων, ωνος, ὁ for “garden hose”: In Modern Greek, all of: σωλήν ἀρδεύσεως, σωλήν ποτίσματος, and σωλήν κήπου. Maybe add the first two.

56.14 μονό-τροχος, ὁ for “wheelbarrow”: Nice find! Add modern χειράμαξα.

56.15 ἅμαξα [ᾰ] χόρτου, ἡ: Leiterwagen in German https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leiterwagen : a hay cart drawn by oxen. By incredible and unbelievable luck, I think we have a classical expression for this: χορτοφόρος ἅμαξα in Strabo. Use that instead.

56.16 κρήν-η, ἡ for "fountain": Add πῖδαξ

56.19 χορτο-κόπιον, τό for “lawnmower”: No, that is “meadow” in LSJ. You’re after something like χορτοκοπική μηχανή. The Modern Greek is χορτοκόπτης, and you might as well just use that.

56.23 κερᾰσός, ὁ for “cherry tree”: Add the slightly later κερασέα, κερασία. (These are what has survived in Modern Greek.)

57.17 ἀνθεμ-ίς, ίδος, ἡ for “daisy”: The Modern Greek vernacular name is μαργαρίτα from Italian, which can’t be used. The Western daisy is genus Bellis; the Greek flowers known as μαργαρίτα are mostly genus Anthemis, or Leucanthemum (λευκανθές); so ἀνθεμίς is fine. Add ἄνθεμον, which corresponds to Anthemis chia, the main Greek variant of daisy.

57.19 λυκίσκος, ὁ for “hops”: note that this is a calque of lupulus, and was unknown to the Ancient Greeks

57.23 ἐλατίνη [ᾰ] βελόνη, ἡ for “pine needle”: I’d prefer βελόνη ἐλάτης, which corresponds to Modern Greek usage

57.24 κύτταρ-ος, ὁ for “pine cone”: στρόβιλος and κῶνος seem to be more accurate

57.28 ἱππο-κάστᾰνον, τό for “chestnut tree”: No need for the prefix, which is in any case unattested in Greek (it comes from the Latin rendering), and you need the tree not the nut: καστανέα

57.30 κόρῠλος, ὁ for “hazelnut”: Not in LSJ, but it does seem to be in enough old dictionaries. Add λεπτοκάρυον; the Encyclopaedia Iliou does, and note that LSJ glosses it as Ποντικόν [κάρυον], which is also a hazelnut.

57.31 σημύδα, ἡ for “beech tree”: The σημύδα is Cercis Siliquastrum “judas tree” in Theophrastus according to LSJ, which is a different order entirely (Modern Greek: κουτσουπιά, κερκίς, δέντρο του Ιούδα, κότσικας, μαμουκαλιά). σημύδα it has been identified with the birch in Modern Greek, and the birch does grow in northern Greece. I’m inclined to add a dagger, or at least a footnote: παρὰ τῷ μὲν Θεοφράστῳ τὸ Cercis Siliquastrum· ὑπὸ τῶν δὲ νεοελλήνων μετὰ τοῦ βορειοτέρου δένδρου τοῦ γένους Betula ἐταυτίσθη

58.3 βακτηρ-ίδιον καπνοῦ, τό for “cigarette”: I assume you’ve coined this, as I cannot find it elsewhere online. I wonder if ἕλιξ or τύλιγμα might not be better.

58.3 σῐγᾰρέττον, τό: this has been displaced in Modern Greek by τσιγάρο (which phonetically we cannot use)

58.5 σῐγάρον [ᾰ], τό for “cigar”: this has been displaced in Modern Greek by the metonym πούρο (from "puro tabacco di Havana”). From Tombaidis, add obsolete καπνόστριπτον, καπνοσύστρεμμα.

58.6 καπνὸς τὸ φῠτόν, ὁ for “tobacco”: The Linnaean plant genus is νικοτιανή, and Theocharides’ dictionary has νικοτιανή βοτάνη (double dagger). I’d prefer καπνὸς ἡ βοτάνη to καπνὸς τὸ φυτόν, since what is shown is the tobacco product, not the plant.

58.10 πῠρεῖον, τό for “matches”: This is what Hepites’ dictionary also suggested. Add, via Theocharides’ dictionary, θειοκήριον (from the vernacular θειαφοκέρι) “sulphur-candle” as an obsolete modern expression. Theocharides suggests πύραυνον, but “pan of coals” is too far off. Formerly φωσφόρον was also used, given that matches use phosphorus.

58.11 τεφρο-δοχεῖον, τό for “ashtray” has been replaced in Modern Greek by the more vernacular σταχτοδοχείο

58.13 κηρός, ὁ for “candle”: given the ambiguity of the word between “wax” and “candle”, you could add κανδήλη, which was already borrowed from Latin in Athenaeus.

59.3 κῦφος, εος, τό for “camel hump”: change to ὗβος, ὁ, which is Aristotle’s word specifically for a camel hump.

60.4 ἀγρία αἴξ, αἰγός, ἡ. This is meant to be the chamois, as distinct from the wild goat; they belong to different genera. There is a problem with their rendering in Modern Greek: the chamois is αγριόγιδο < ἄγριον αἰγίδιον, while the wild goat, which remains formally αἴγαγρος, is in the vernacular αγριοκάτσικο: κατσίκα is just Albanian for αἴξ. So all of αγριόγιδο, αἴγαγρος, and αγριοκάτσικο actually mean ἀγρία αἴξ. I don’t think this can be helped; leave alone.

60.8 ἀκανθό-χοιρος, ὁ for “hedgehog”: ἐχῖνος is the Ancient word; ἀκανθόχοιρος “thorn-pig” is behind the Modern word σκαντζόχοιρος, but given it is used as a gloss in Hesychius and Suda, it is clearly the Mediaeval word, not the Ancient word. I’m not sure it needs to be mentioned at all.

60.10 ἁλματοῦρος, ὁ for “kangaroo”: Halmaturus is the default Latin rendering, but there is no evidence that has been used in Greek (more’s the pity); this should be treated as a neologism, and footnoted (ἐκ τοῦ λατινικοῦ). In any case, it should clearly be ἁλμάτουρος. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Halmaturus suggests the Greek should be ἁλματίουρος “leaper-tail”, not “leap-tail”.

The genus name is Macropus μακρόπους (The genus Halmaturus is obsolete in biology, and its members scattered among other genera). Macropod is nowhere near as fun a name, but I fear it should be added anyway: unlike ἁλμάτουρος, μακρόπους has been used in Greek.

61.3 δέρμα, ατος, τό for “[dog] pelt”: Add κυνέη, although the literal sense of the word did not last long in Ancient Greek

61.6 τρίχες [ῐ] ῥῑνός, τριχῶν, ἡ for “[cat] whiskers”: In Modern Greek, cats are said to have a μουστάκι, “moustache”; and that usage is recorded for cats at least since 1364 (in the Entertaining Tale of Quadrupeds). Consider adding or replacing τρίχες with μύσταξ.

61.12 πρόβᾰτον, τό for “sheep”: Add of course οἶς, οἰός, ὁ.

64.1 ψῡχ-ή, ἡ for “butterfly”: At the risk of pedantry, add λεπιδόπτερον

64.2 βομβῠλι-ός (βομβῠλι-ύλιος), ὁ: Is βομβῠλι-ύλιος a typo?

64.3 ἀρίγγη, ἡ for “herring”: An inevitable loan from Latin; the vernacular modern term ρέγγα is from Venetian.

64.4 ἀμία, ἡ, τρώκ-της, ου for “trout”: The ἀμία might jump upstream, but LSJ and DGE confirm it is a bonito, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_bonito. The Modern Greek for trout is πέστροφα, which is Bulgarian (pŭstŭrva); σολομός ο τρώκτης is its Linnaean name, and it does appear as just τρώκτης in older dictionaries. I don’t like τρώκτης, but it’s the only Hellenic form on offer.

65.6 κᾱρίς, ἡ, βρᾰχύ-ουρον, τό for “crab”; 65.8 καρκίνος [ῐ], ὁ for “crustacean”: these should be reversed. βρᾰχύουρον is the Linnaean subfamily brachyura, rather than specifically a crab. The Latin glosses, squilla vs cancer, are misleading; from the German and English glosses and the picture, clearly the crab is the 65.6, not 65.8

65.18 ἕλμινς, ινθος, ἡ. The required word is an an earthworm, not a parasitic worm: this should be σκώληξ

65.20 ἀράχν-ης, ου, ὁ for “spider”: add variant ἀράχνη (which is what survived)

66.2 ἀνεμο-μῠλ-η, ἡ for “windmill”: I see the form in Vyzantios’ dictionary, but the universally used form in Modern Greek is ἀνεμόμυλος, since μύλη has yielded to μύλος in Modern Greek. Add the latter.

66.3 ἐργᾰσ-τήριον, τό for “factory”: yes, but add Modern ἐργοστάσιον

66.8 κοιμ-ητήριον, τό for “cemetery”: A decidedly postclassical usage; the classical instance of the word in LSJ is just “dormitory”. Add νεκροταφεῖον, which is the established modern term. The only explicit pre-Christian term in LSJ is νεκρία. Also add νεκρόπολις, although the instance in Strabo http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... 17A1*.html is a district in Alexandria where the dead were embalmed, not buried.

66.10 κῑν-ηματο-γράφος [ᾰ], ὁ for “movie theatre”: That is the modern usage by metonymy, but κῑν-ηματο-γράφος is properly cinema as an art form. I’d leave out κῑν-ηματο-γράφος as opposed to κῑν-ηματο-γρᾰφ-ικὸν
θέᾱτρον, for the sake of pedantry.

66.14 γυμνᾰσ-ιον [ᾰ], τό for “gymnasium”: Add γυμναστήριον

66.17 ἀλωή [ᾰ], ἡ for “park”: You’ve rendered this elsewhere as παράδεισος, and I think ἀλωή "any prepared ground: garden, orchard, vineyard” does not work.

66.20 παιδ-ικὸν πεδίον, τό for “playground”: An acceptable neologism. The standard Modern term παιδική χαρά is too figurative to work; but the more recent παιδότοπος might be worth adding.

67.2 κολυμβ-ήθρα, ἡ for “swimming pool”: That word should be fine, although it has narrowed spatially in Modern Greek to be a baptismal font. Just in case, though, add Modern κολυμβητήριον.

67.9 ὑδρο-μύλη [μῠ], ἡ for “water mill”: I’d treat this as an obsolete form, these seem to be mediaeval glossary entries. (The Modern word uses the modern word for “water”: νερόμυλος) The older term is Strabo’s ὑδραλέτης.

67.10 ὑδρο-τροχός, ὁ for “water wheel”: LSJ has in papyri κύκλευμα, περίακτος τροχός, περίακτον ἄντλημα, and just τροχός.

68.5 μῠλ-ικὸς τροχός, ὁ for “mill wheel”: Add modern μυλοτροχός

68.6 λίθος μῠλ-ίας, ου, ὁ for “millstone”: Add μυλικός λίθος

68.9 φῠτουργ-εῖον, τό: That is indeed a nursery, but the concept glossed in the dictionary is “greenhouse", which is Modern θερμοκήπιον.

68.11 σταθμός, ὁ for “stable”: For disambiguation, add ἱππόστασις, ἱππών

69.4 πωλ-ητήριον ἱμᾰτίων [ῑμ-], τό for “clothing store”: ἱματοπωλεῖον does turn up online, but it is not pressing that you change this

69.7 πωλ-ητήριον τροφ-ῆς, τό for “food store”: Would ἐδωδίμων be better?

69.10 ἑτοιμο-πωλεῖον, τό for “fast food store”: The intent is indeed there in the Koine word, though "cook-shop where dressed meats are sold” is not quite a fast food joint. The Modern usual word is φαστφουντάδικο, but ταχυφαγεῖον is also used.

69.11 ὑᾰλ-ίνη [ῐ] θῠρίς, ίδος, ἡ for “shop window”: The Modern form is French βιτρίνα, but the Puristic form (so explicitly glossed in Hepites) is προθήκη. The senses in LSJ for προθήκη are entirely unrelated, though the sense is readily recoverable (“front-(show)case”).

69.15 περιηγ-ητικὸν πρακ-τήριον, τό for “travel agency”: Do you mean πρατήριον? The Modern Greek is ταξιδιωτικό πρακτoρείο as a calque of “travel agency” (specifically of Italian agenzia); ταξιδιωτικός is Mediaeval, and while πρακτόρειον existed in the Roman Empire, the sense was of a tax officer. I suspect you have translated πρακτoρείο back to the Attic πρακτήριον; laudable, but the sense is so late, and so mediated, that I think we should bite the bullet and neologise: περιηγ-ητικὴ μεσιτεία (patterned after κτηματομεσιτεία “real estate agency”: the agent is acting as middleman between buyer and vendor, just as the travel agent acts between buyer and airline.

Strictly speaking, κτηματομεσιτεία is the activity of real estate agency, and the shop is a κτηματομεσιτικὸν γραφεῖον. I would rather not coin περιηγητομεσιτικὸν γραφεῖον.

OTOH, περιηγ-ητικὸν πρα-τήριον “shop, market” would work just fine, even if it is not a literal translation of “travel agency"

70.1 χαρτο-φῠλάκιον [ᾰκ], τό: You could add the Modern ἀρχειοθήκη, but ἀρχεῖον in the sense “archive, public document” is Koine (LSJ sense I.2), and would likely be confusing. OTOH, you have used it for “file” (after the modern usage) in 70.5.

70.2 ἀναγρᾰφ-ή, ἡ: ἀναγραφαί? Especially given the following ὑπομνήματα

70.5 ἀρχεῖον, τό: This is a filing folder, German Ordner, Modern Greek ντοσιέ. I’m still reluctant about ἀρχεῖον, because (contra the English rendering) this is the folder, not the file that is the contents of the folder. In fact, I will reiterate my request from August to render this as καλύπτρα or θύλακος.

70.13 ζύγαστρον [ῠ], τό for “drawer”. Also used in 46.8. I’m not convinced that this “chest, box” from LSJ corresponds to a drawer at all. Theocharides certainly didn’t think so, and rendered the Modern vernacular word συρτάρι in Ancient Greek as a κιβώτιον contained within a κιβωτός. Hepites suggests (obsolete) συρτοθήκη, which I like a lot, and suggest you used in both places.

71.1 ὑπᾰγορ-ευτικὴ μηχᾰν-ή, ἡ for “dictaphone”: Add obsolete ὑπαγορόφωνον. Both used (the second in brackets) in Memas Kolaitis, English-Greek Dictionary of Pure and Applied Mathematics. Athens: Technical Chamber of Greece. 1976. http://users.uoa.gr/~nchilak/vivlio/Parts/05%20D.pdf

71.6 χρωμᾰτ-ικὴ ταινία, ἡ for “ink ribbon”: That’s a typewriter ribbon (this really is technological archaeology now), and the Modern Greek for it is μελανοταινία, “ink ribbon”.

71.8 τρῡπ-ητής, οῦ, ὁ, διάτορ-ον μηχᾰν-ημα, ατος, τό for “hole punch”: The Puristic term is διατρητής, though the default term is the French περφορατέρ. Not convinced the neologisms are needed.

71.11 κυκλο-μόλυβδος, ὁ for “pencil”: I had not noticed this Ancient term! Add κυκλομόλυβδος to μολυβδογραφίς in 14.15. And bring over the terms from 14.15 here.

71.12 σφαιρ-ωτὸς στυλογράφος, ὁ for “ballpoint pen”: as already noted in 14.12, the established Modern term is στυλογράφος διαρκείας

71.13 στυλογράφος, ὁ for “fountain pen”: As with 14.17 (which is the same thing), add earlier Modern μελανοφόρος.

71.16 ἐξᾰλειπ-τικὸν κόμμῐ, εως, τό for “eraser”: The Modern Greek for eraser is a Rückwanderer from κόμμῐ: Italian gomma, Venetian goma, expanded to γομολάστιχο “gum rubber”. The more transparent modern term for eraser, which I suggest you use instead of the neologism, is σβήστρα, also σβηστήρα, σβηστήρι(ον), < σβέννυμι. σβέννυμι is in Ancient Greek “extinguish” rather than “erase”, but I think σβεστήρ, σβεστήριον (which are attested in the sense of “extinguisher”) could server in this sense as well.

72.2 πηκτικὸν ὑγρόν, τό for “setting lotion”: Setting of hair in Modern Greek is κράτημα (though you might argue κράτησις is more correct). I’d suggest the neologism ἔμβρεγμα κρατήσεως κόμης

72.5 οὐλο-ποιὸν εἴλημα, ατος, τό for “hair roller”: While the usual term is French μπικουτί (bigoudi), the Hellenic βοστρυχωτής has shown up in Greek (it’s even used to label stock photos). It should of course replace the neologism. Add καλαμίς; LSJ says its use in Pollux 5.96, which is not further defined there, is = κάλαμος ΙΙ.8, i.e. a dress ornament, but lots of online sources (e.g. https://www.academia.edu/37018552/Ε._Βλ ... 6_in_Greek_ p. 308 and old dictionaries) identify it with the Latin calamistrum, as a hair curler.

72.8 ἱμᾰτ-ίδιον [ῑδ], τό for "hairdresser’s cape”: μπέρτα from French berthe is the usual term used for a hairdresser’s cape, but μπέρτα is rendered in Puristic as περιώμιον, and there is an instance of a Boeotian sculpture depicting a barber and his client, the latter wearing what is said to be a περιώμιον (because of course it would be unacceptable to use the French word for Ancient Greeks in Modern Greek): http://users.sch.gr/maritheodo/history- ... ges/23.htm .

72.12 περόν-ιον κόμ-ης, τό for “hair pin”: Has this actually been used for hair pin? Doubt it, since the citations relate to engineering. Instead, use κερκίς (κόμης), κνηστίς, τέττιξ

72.13 κομμ-ώτριον, τό for “hair comb”: “a tiring-instrument” according to LSJ, and we know nothing from the fragment about what it is, apart from something used by hairdressers. I’d avoid it.

72.17 κόσμ-ημα τρῐχῶν, ατος, τό for “hair style”: This is not as safe as the other two glosses offered, it makes me think of an ornament. κόσμησις would be safer, but the other two glosses actually exist.

72.20 διαμερ-ισμὸς τῆς κόμ-ης, ὁ for “parting of hair”: Per 2.13, this should be λίσσωσις (the "setting of the hair from the crown of the head”, i.e. combing a parting, as one would do at a hairdresser’s)

72.21 πλεκτᾰν-η, ἡ, συμπλοκὴ τρῐχῶν, ἡ for “ponytail”: Neither; this is just πλόκαμος

72.24 γένει-ον, τό for “sideburns”: properly speaking γένει-ον is the beard on the chin: if you’re trying to differentiate chin-hair and cheek-hair, if anything this should be the other way around with 72.25 πώγων. Lampe lists παρειαί as meaning “side-whiskers”; I suggest you use that. The Modern Greek φαβορίτα is a French loan.

73.5 ζῡθοχό-η, ἡ for “beer stein”: this is a neologism, there is no evidence this has been used in Greek. The closest to a Hellenic modern rendering I can find is κανάτα μπίρας “beer pitcher”.

73.10 ὑπό-στρωμα, ατος, τό for “beer mat”: That’s bedding in LSJ, it won’t work. Coasters/Beer mats are σουβέρ normally in Modern Greek (French sous-verre). The ὑποκρατήριον did the same job as a coaster, but was of course much bulkier.

Saucers serve the same purpose as coasters, and in the early 19th century dictionaries https://books.google.gr/books?id=bidkAA ... ον&f=false and https://books.google.gr/books?id=H4CcpF ... ον&f=false, soucoupe “saucer” and cabaret are glossed as ὑποποτήριον, “under-drinking-vessel”. That’s exactly what’s needed here, since ποτήριον covers both cups and glasses. Use that instead of ὑπόστρωμα.

73.17 λόγ-ισμα ἀργῠρίου, ατος, τό for “[hotel] bill”. Add πρόσγραφον, so used by Plutarch. Why λόγισμα and not the much more frequent λογισμός? Perhaps add the Modern λογαριασμός.

73.18 οἰνό-πνευμα, ατος, τό: This isn’t spirits in general, this is specifically brandy, and the Latin has named it coniacum “cognac". Distillation is ἀπόσταγμα, and the definition of ἀπόσταγμα in the Triantafyllidis dictionary says that brandy is an ἀπόσταγμα of wine. I would use here ἀπόσταγμα οἴνου, which is in fact in use for “brandy”: I have had a waiter ask me whether I’d like an ἀπόσταγμα; it is learnèd, but so is a lot of contemporary Greek.

74.2 καφεϊκὴ ὑδρ-ία, ἡ for “coffee urn": Is it a mere pitcher of coffee? In fact, an urn is used to prepare coffee, and in Modern Greek it is called a καφετιέρα (from French); it does the same job as a teapot and a samovar. It also does the same job as the μπρίκι, the pot used to make Turkish coffee. Hepites glosses cafetière as καφεθήκη and percolateur as καφεβραστήριον. I think you should provide both.

74.4 μικρὸν κοχλι-άριον, τό for “tea spoon”: we have already glossed this as μικρὸν κοχλι-άριον, τό, κοχλι-άριον τρᾰγ-ήματων. Appropriately enough, Greek refers to both dessert spoons and *coffee* spoons, not tea spoons; so you could add here κοχλιάριον καφέδος.

74.7 [ἐδώδιμος] πᾰγετ-ός, ὁ for “ice cream”: I see that you’ve Atticised Modern παγωτό, but I’m now not convinced. παγετός is “frost”. παγωτό is derived from παγόω “to freeze” (unattested in antiquity, which used πήγνυμι instead), so it is something frozen, not actual frost.

So I’d rather a modern παγωτόν, though its verb is later. Since πάγος = παγετός, and there are compounds like παγόλυτον “water thawed from ice”, Hellenists will get what it means anyway.

74.8 ἀφρό-γᾰλα, ακτος, τό for “whipped cream”: That is attested, but frothed milk is only the first step towards whipped cream. However I see that the ancient expressions for cream were quite unstable (τὸ ἐπιστάμενον τοῦ γάλακτος, κάρμα, πῖαρ, ἡ ἐπιπολάζουσα γάλακτι πιμελή), because cream was not really a thing in Ancient Greece.

One could translate whipped cream literally as πιμελή κτυπητή. Alternatively, many languages, including French and Greek, refer to it as Chantilly cream (in Modern Greek usually just Σαντιγί); you could use Καντιλιακικὴ πιμελή, Chantilly being Cantiliacum in Latin. Or, we could go back to the original 16th century name of the stuff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipped_cream , χιὼν γάλακτος. Or all three. I leave it to you.

74.18 μηχᾰν-ὴ πᾰγετ-οῦ, ἡ for “ice cream machine”: or παγωτοῦ

75.4 ὑπάλληλος ὑποδοχ-ῆς, ὁ for “reception staff”: Laudable use of the Modern Greek, but “subordinate” is obscure in its ancient sense of “subordinate”, and you have used παῖς already for waiter; receptionists would also have been slaves in antiquity, and are low-paid functionaries like waiters now. I wonder whether Lucian’s ὑποδοχεύς might not be better.

75.8 θερμο-πώλιον, τό for “hotel bar”: The Latin gloss notwithstanding, a thermopolium is a restaurant, serving hot food, not a bar (oecus potorius). Better οἰνοπώλιον, καπληεῖον

75.10 ὑψηλὸς δίφρος, ὁ for “bar stool”: Modern σκαμπό < French escambeau; the Modern word for “stool” is σκαμνί < σκάμνος < Latin scamnum, a mediaeval synonym of σκίμπους, but σκίμπους is probably a worse match than δίφρος. Leave alone.

75.12 σύγγρᾰφος, ἡ for “identity card”: In LSJ that’s a synonym of συγγραφή II.2, “draft decree”, no use here. Ignore the Latin syngraphus, it doesn’t seem to reflect Greek usage.

76.1 αὐτο-κῑν-ητικὸν ἀτῠχ-ημα, ατος, τό for “car accident”: There is some diversity in how this is expressed in Modern Greek, though that is not reason enough to change your rendering:

αυτοκινητικό ατύχημα “car accident” 20k Google hits
αυτοκινητιστικό ατύχημα “motorist accident” 75k Google hits
αυτοκινητικό δυστύχημα “car misfortune” 20k Google hits
αυτοκινητιστικό δυστύχημα “motorist misfortune” 120k Google hits

τροχαίο ατύχημα “traffic accident” 1.6m Google hits
τροχαίο δυστύχημα “traffic misfortune” 860k Google hits

… though perhaps add τροχαῖον ἀτύχημα

76.5 ἐκτροπ-ή, ἡ for “fork in road”: The established Modern term is διχάλα “fork”, which is attested (as a Doricism) in LSJ, but your rendering is unimpeachable: keep as is

76.7 πρωτεύουσα ὁδός, ἡ for “main road”: The Modern Greek idiomatic expression is κύριος δρόμος, which would give κυρία ὁδός. Your rendering makes sense, but it makes explicit a hierarchy (primary vs secondary roads), which is an afterthought in how we think of roads

76.8 παρακειμέμη ὁδός, ἡ for “side road”: should be παρακειμένη

76.14 ὁδοίπορ-ος, ὁ for “traveller”: Again, error in Perseus LSJ: ὁδοιπόρος

76.15 σωλην-άριον, τό: Spectactularly badly rendered into English by the dictionary as “channel”. The German Kanal here, as the picture makes clear, is a drain. The established Modern term is φρεάτιον, which in antiquity is merely a small φρέαρ in Koine, and a φρέαρ is a pit or well, not necessarily a drain. I think you should add φρεάτιον, as a modern sense, but Classical ὑδρορρόα is fine for this sense.

76.17 στᾰτὴ περιοχ-ή, ἡ for “car park”: I think that’s too obscure to stand. Modern Greek has σταθμός σταθμεύσεως, χῶρος σταθμεύσεως in officialese (in the vernacular it is inevitably πάρκιγκ)

76.18 πυροσβέσται, οἱ: The Latin notwithstanding, the glosses are Feuerwehr, fire service: they refer to the service and not the individuals. So πυροσβεστικὴ ὑπηρεσία or πυροσβεστικὸν σῶμα, to be precise. The latter, σῶμα “corps", is the name of the Greek Fire Service as an organisation, but per https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Πυροσβεστικό_Σώμα it has changed its name over the years: λόχος, διλοχία, μοίρα. ὑπηρεσία “service” is the generic term, and the term for the instances of the Fire Service acting in each town.

I’m delighted btw that Fire Service officers have made up their own terminology for officers: Πύραρχος, Πυραγός, Πυρονόμος, and all the combinations of αντι-, επι-, υπο-, and αρχι-.

76.19 διαλείπων λύχνος, ὁ for “flashing light”: The Modern Greek term is ἀστυνομικὸς φάρος “police light", φάρος που αναβοσβήνει (modern dvandva: “lights and extinguishes”). The sense of φάρος as lighthouse is late (Strabo), and its generalisation to light in general is decidedly Modern; and the dvandva verb won’t fit ancient Greek (*ἀναπτοσβεννυόμενος); but perhaps add ἀστυνομικὸς λύχνος as an alternative.

76.21 φᾱνάριον, τό for “traffic light”: this the modern word for lantern, and the word as a diminutive of φανός is first attested in Eustathius of Thessalonica.

76.22 μέτρον στάσεως [ᾰ], τό for “parking meter”: More accurately, μέτρον σταθμεύσεως

76.25 στειβομένη ὁδός, ἡ for “country road”: I see it was used by Xenophon, but it’s a beaten track: how does that imply a country road? If anything, country roads are off the beaten track. The Modern Greek is ἐπαρχιακὸς δρόμος, where ἐπαρχία = countryside; could I suggest ἀρουραία ὁδός?

77.3 μίσθιον αὐτο-κίνητον [ῑ], τό for “taxi”: The Iliou Encyclopaedia defines taxi as ἀγοραῖον αὐτοκίνητον; but μίσθιον is much clearer, and has no ambiguity either with car rental, or with cars somehow belonging to the market. Keep.

77.5 ἐφελκομένη ἅμαξα [ᾰ], ἡ for “trailer”: The Modern Greek term is ῥυμουλκούμενον ὄχημα “towed vehicle”, which I believe you should use instead.

77.7 ἕλκουσα ἅμαξα [ᾰ], ἡ for “tow truck”: Actually, ῥυμουλκοῦσα; Modern Greek has the adjectival ρυμουλκόν, and I see that Τομ το Ρυμουλκό is the Greek rendering of the cartoon character Tom the Tow Truck. You might as well add it, as a modern form.

77.9 πλάγιος [ᾰ] κάλᾰθος [κᾰ], ὁ, πλευρ-ικὸς κάλᾰθος [κᾰ], ὁ for “side car”: You can use the adjectives, I’ll just note that Modern Greek doesn’t bother: it’s just καλάθι μοτοσικλέτας, “motorbike basket” — so κάλαθος [κινητοκύκλου/μηχανοδιτρόχου]

77.12 χειραμάξιον, τό for “pram”: The ancient senses aren’t quite it: bath-chair, child’s go-cart. And Modern Greek as noted in 56.14 uses χειράμαξα to mean wheelbarrow. The Modern Greek terms are αμαξάκι/καροτσάκι παιδικό/μωρού/βρέφους, baby/infant/child carriage/cart (diminutive). True, a pram is a lot like a wheelbarrow, and probably closer to the original bath-chair/child’s go-cart; but maybe add ἅμαξα or ἁμαξίδιον βρέφους.

77.17 πέδῑλον, τό for “pedal”: Τhe usual term is Modern Greek now uses πε(ν)τάλ(ι), from French and Italian. πέδῑλον “sandal” is rarely used, and is not great. The proper officialese term, which the Iliou Encyclopaedia also uses more, is ποδομοχλός, “foot-lever”.

77.20 εἱργμὸς πηλοῦ, ὁ for “mudguard”: The usual term for mudguard on bikes and cars in Modern Greek is φτερό “wing”, which is Hellenic (πτερόν), and maybe even usable, though quite vague. Consider it.

I am delighted to find that mudguard has been calqued as λασπωτήρας, although the sense is somewhat off (λασπόω is to make something muddy, so a λασπωτήρ is a tool for muddying, not for preventing muddying.) Unfortunately λασπόω < λάσπη is mediaeval with unknown etymology, so we can’t use λασπωτήρ anyway.)

More’s the pity, as I’ve just discovered that λασπωτήρας is the Greek rendering of the mullet hairstyle.

I have to query εἱργμὸς: how is this a mud “prison/cage”? If you’re calquing “guard”, I can see the thought process, but εἱργμὸς is about shutting something in.

In the European Union translation instances in https://www.linguee.gr/ελληνικά-αγγλικά ... y=mudguard, λασπωτήρας and φτερό are what is used, but I have seen three instances of προφυλακτήρ ἰλύος. It’s a depressingly literal translation of mudguard, but it is also reasonable accurate.

There is also one instance of παρειὰ τῶν τροχῶν “wheel cheek”. Not as impressed by that.

77.23 ἕδρ-ιον, τό for “bicycle seat”: FWIW, in Modern Greek this is exclusively κάθισμα.

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Post by opoudjis » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:28 am

78.5 πείρινς, ινθος, ἡ for "coachwork": very much on point, but add Modern ἁμάξωμα

78.6 φωστήρ, ῆρος, ὁ for "headlight": while Modern Greek just uses φῶς, this is much clearer

78.7 πῐνᾰκ-ιον αὐτο-κῑνήτου, τό for "number plate": Modern Greek uses πινακίς, but that is not reason enough to change this.

78.8 πρόφυλ-αξ, ᾰκος, ὁ for "bumper": Perseus LSJ accent error, this should be προφύλαξ. I see you’ve done this to classicise Modern προφυλακτήρ, which I’ve used in 77 for "mudguard". Maybe, although φύλαξ is more obtrusively to me a human than φυλακτήρ is.

78.10 ἅμαξα [ᾰ], ἡ; πλαίσῐ-ον, τό for "chassis": The Hellenic is indeed πλαίσιον, and per EU translations occasionally βάσις. I’m not sure about ἅμαξα, that would be the whole car[t]. Admittedly, Iliou Encyclopaedia uses ἅμαξα where others have used ἁμάξωμα, above.

78.15 ἔμπροσθ-εν ἕδρ-α, ἡ for "front seat": Seats of vehicles in Modern Greek are always κάθισμα, but I won’t insist

78.16 κνέφαλλον, τό for "upholstery": Good. Add Modern ἐπένδυσις.

78.18 ὁρμ-ητικὴ κλείς, κλειδός for "ignition key": the Modern Greek (which I’ll trust over this neologism), from the EU parallel texts: κλεὶς ἀναφλέξεως, κλεὶς ἐναύσεως

78.20 μοχλὸς τᾰχῠτήτων, λᾰβ-ὶς τᾰχῠτήτων, ίδος for "gear stick": Only the former has been used in Modern Greek

78.21 τᾰχῠτῆτες, αἱ: this is "gear system", so σύστημα ταχυτήτων

78.24 πίναξ [ῐ] αὐτο-κῑνήτου, ᾰκος, ὁ for "dashboard": The Hellenic term in Modern Greek appears to be πίναξ ὀργάνων, but no need to change it.

78.25 ὁρμ-ητήριον, τό for "starter motor": ἐκκινητήρ. I’ll note that what is depicted is not the starter motor per se, but the ignition, which the EU translators have ingeniously rendered as κλεῖθρον ἀναφλέξεως

78.27 πέδῑλον συμπλέκτου for "clutch": ποδομοχλός/ποδόπληκτρον συμπλέκτου

78.28 ποδομοχλός/ποδόπληκτρον πεδήσεως for "brake pedal": ποδομοχλός/ποδόπληκτρον πεδήσεως

78.29 ποδομοχλός/ποδόπληκτρον ἐπιτᾰχ-υντοῦ for "accelerator pedal": ποδομοχλός/ποδόπληκτρον ἐπιτᾰχ-υντοῦ

78.30 χειρο-χᾰλῑνός for "handbreak": The aim here is to dodge the Italian stem of χειρό-φρενο, the longstanding Modern word.

Normally, this should be χειροπέδη, since πέδη is the formal word for “brake”. Unfortunately that already means “handcuffs” in Modern Greek, since a πέδη is a fetter first and a brake only secondarily (in compounds).

It’s more awkward, but we’ll have to use μοχλός πεδήσεως. It is at least analogous with ποδομοχλός/ποδόπληκτρον πεδήσεως

78.33 ἐνδοχεῖον, τό for "fuel tank": Rare word, and I haven’t seen it used anywhere; I’d avoid. Modern Greek uses δεξαμενή

78.37 κῑν-ητής, οῦ, ὁ for "motor": κινητήρ is what is used in Modern Greek

78.39 δοχ-εῖον ἀποσκευῆς, τό for "car boot": The established modern Hellenic expression is χῶρος ἀποσκευῶν. I’ll admit it’s not a very insightful rendering, because a car boot is not exactly a huge space…

78.40 ὀπίσω [ῐ] φῶς, φωτός, τό for "rear lights": You had rendered this as φωστήρ above, avoiding the Modern metonymy of φῶς. You should be consistent.

79.12 ναύαρχ-ος, ὁ for "ship captain": That’s an admiral according to LSJ (though not Woodhouse); the Latin meaning of nauarcha, which is what Albert gives, would seem to have wandered off from the Greek. A captain is a ναύκληρος or a ναυκράτωρ. You don’t need to add it, but the Hellenic modern term is πλοίαρχος. (πλοῖον has displaced ναύς even in Puristic, because the latter is so irregular.)

79.13 ἔποχος, ὁ, ἡ for "passenger": LSJ does not suggest this as a rendering, and it isn’t in Woodhouse either. I’d omit.

80.12 προσγειώνω for "to land (of plane)": Delete this, this is the Modern form morphologically of προσγειόω, and must not feature in an Ancient Greek dictionary

80.13 ἀπογειέομαι for "to take off (of plane)": No, ἀπογειόομαι

80.14 διάδρομος, ὁ for "(airport) runway": Add ἀεροδιάδρομος

80.15 δέω for "fasten (seatbelt)": δέω ζώνην ἀσφαλείας; the Modern language glosses all do the same, and “bind” on its own is simply not informative. I’m not convinced accingere in the Latin should not have had a noun, either.

80.16, 81.6 ὑπηρέτ-ης, ὁ, ὑπήρετ-ις, ιδος for "steward, stewardess": That is the translation of the Latin ministra, but the established term is ἀεροσυνοδός, ὁ, ἡ

81.3 πορ-ευτικὴ κλῖμαξ, ᾰκος, ἡ for "(airplane) gangway": The established term appears to be just σκάλα ἀεροπλάνου (= κλῖμαξ). The word διαβάθρα has been used in Moder Greek for ships, coined by analogy with ἀποβάθρα "ladder for disembarking, gangway”; it does not appear to have been extended to planes. The only reason διαβάθρα was ever coined was that ἀποβάθρα no longer means “gangway” in Modern Greek, but “pier”. But this is after all an Ancient Greek dictionary, and the original sense of ἀποβάθρα is perfect for planes; I’d suggest using it here.

81.9 τροχιὰ μεταφορ-ᾶς, ἡ: No, “trajectory” is just τροχιά (a post classical sense, but the connection with “wheel” is desirable here).

81.10 τροχιὰ “orbit”: this word is the one to disambiguate, as τροχιὰ περιφορᾶς. τροχιὰ μεταφορ-ᾶς is a transfer orbit, which is "an intermediate elliptical orbit that is used to move a satellite or other object from one circular, or largely circular orbit to another.” It is not needed here.

81.12 καύσῐμον, τό for "fuel": Plural, both in Modern Greek, and in Theophrastus per LSJ.

82.4 ἔξοδος, ἡ for "departure (of train)": FWIW, the established Modern word is ἀναχώρησις, though I recognise in antiquity that was a retreat

82.6 ἀποβάθρα, ἡ for "train platform": Here’s the problem from 81.3: what is now “pier” was “gangway”. I’d suggest we use the ancient word for pier/jetty here, χῶμα (σταθμοῦ instead of λιμένος). The alternative is to accept the modern meaning of ἀποβάθρα, and call the airplane ladder a κλῖμαξ. Your call again, but I think for a change we should actually trust the Ancient senses of the words

82.7 ῥίσκος, ὁ for "luggage": Add ἱματιοφορίς

82.8 σκευόφορ-ον ἁρμᾰτ-ιον, τό for "luggage cart": ἁμαξίδιον ἀποσκευῶν. You have already accepted ἀποσκευαί for luggage elsewhere

82.11 τᾰμῐ-εῖον πωλ-ήσεως εἰσῐτ-ηρίων, τό for "ticket office": The established terms are ἐκδοτήριον, or γραφεῖον (πωλ-ήσεως) εἰσῐτ-ηρίων. I’d add rather than replace

82.12 κλειδίον σῐδηρο-τροχιᾶς for "fork (on train track)": κλειδίον is the Modern term, but that’s because Middle Greek made any slightly irregular noun a diminutive to decline it more easily. κλείς should be enough.

82.15 σᾰνὶς ἀποσκευῆς, ίδος, ἡ for "luggage rack": The established modern terms are ἐσχάρα ἀποσκευῶν, δίκτυ ἀποσκευῶν. Of course neither of those are shelves, and that tells you a lot about how Greek trains (and cars) work.

82.21 ἐπόπτ-ης [ἁμαξοστοιχίας]: This is a ticket inspector; the established term is εἰσπράκτωρ, or ἐλεγκτής εἰσητηρίων

82.23 ἐπιμελ-ητής [ἁμαξοστοιχίας]: This is a train conductor, which apparently is decoupled in the Germanosphere from being a ticket inspector. The European Union translations insist on μηχανοδηγός for a conductor, but that literally means engine driver, and a conductor explicitly does not get to drive the train: he is indeed an ἐπιμελητής instead. Clearly Greeks are simply unaware that there is someone on the train crew who is neither a ticket inspector nor a train driver. In any case, ὁδηγός as “driver” is post-classical, and we aren’t using it, since its ancient meaning is “guide”.

I think your gloss stands, but I also think it needs to be marked as a neologism.

83.2 τοπ-ικὴ ἁμαξο-στοιχία for "passenger train": That it is a local service is beside the point: ἐπιβατικὴ ἁμαξο-στοιχία

83.5 σῐδηρο-δρομ-ικὸν ὄχ-ημα, ατος, τό for "train carriage": The established term is σιδηρδρομικὴ ἅμαξα

83.7 ἐμπορ-ικὴ ἁμαξο-στοιχία for "goods train": Modern Greek has the slight nuance of using ἐμπορευματικὴ ἁμαξο-στοιχία: not a merchant train (< ἔμπορος) or a commercial train (< ἐμπόριον, for which the adjective is also ἐμπορικὴ) but a merchandise (goods) train

83.10 ἑστιᾱτ-όριον ὄχ-ημα, ατος, τό for "dining car": By analogy with all the others, ἑστιᾱτ-όριος ἅμαξα

84.1 ὄχ-ημα ἀποσκευῆς, ατος, τό for "luggage van": ἀποσκευῶν

84.3 ἀνα-βᾰτήρ for "ski lift": The term is used in its own, but given that it is ambiguous, I’d suggest χιονοδρομικὸς ἀνα-βᾰτήρ, which is used in formal writing (when the ski context is not given)

84.5 κορῠφ-αῖος σταθμός, ὁ for "top station (of funicular)": The term used in Greek Wikipedia for funiculars https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Τελεφερίκ is σταθμὸς προορισμοῦ, which is conventionally the top station.

84.7 ὀρεινὸς σῐδηρό-δρομος: Bergbahn in German, which according to Wikipedia is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steep_grade_railway. From the Iliou Encyclopaedia, I see that this is indeed how they are called in Greek: the “mountain” component of the term is not about how high up it is, but how steep it is. However, German Wikipedia, while mumbling about how hard it is to define it, would likely exclude the San Francisco cable car, whereas English Wikipedia, which explicitly refers to steepness, includes it

84.8 σταθμὸς κοιλ-άδος for "valley station (of funicular)": The term used in Greek Wikipedia for funiculars https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Τελεφερίκ is σταθμὸς ἐκκινήσεως, which is conventionally the valley (= bottom) station.

85.1 περιηγ-ητικὸν πρακ-τήριον for "travel agency": see discussion of 69.15

85.7 περίπᾰτ-ος, ὁ for "hike": This sounds somewhat comical in Modern Greek, because it is limited in meaning to stroll. Even in Ancient Greek, I don’t think it would be used for a long walk; would soldiers do it? The Modern Greek is πεζοπορία, and the equivalent Ancient verb is πεζοπορέω. (A march after all is πορεία, and a hike is a kind of march.)

85.15 περιηγ-ητικὴ ἀγέλ-η, ἡ for "tour group": Modern Greek uses ὁμὰς περιηγήσεως, so you could also use ἁγέλη περιηγήσεως

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Post by opoudjis » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:57 am

86.2 θῠρὶς δεσμ-ῶν, ίδος, ἡ for "parcel counter": A parcel is δέμα in Modern Greek, but δέμα is a bond in Ancient Greek: δέσμη is the right word to use. Shop counters are θυρίς in Modern Greek, but I hesitate because τᾰχῠ-δρομικὴ θῠρὶς is a post office box. I’d suggest adding τράπεζα δεσμ-ῶν for a parcel counter.

86.4 τᾰχῠ-δρομικὴ θῠρὶς, ίδος, ἡ for "post office counter": No, that has ended up meaning a post office box in Modern Greek. θῠρὶς/τράπεζα ἐπιστολῶν, since it contrasts with θῠρὶς δεσμ-ῶν

86.11 ἐπιγρᾰφ-ὴ ἐπιστολ-ῆς, ἡ for "address": Add πρόγραμμα ἐπιστολ-ῆς, so used by Procopius of Gaza. The Modern terms are διεύθυνσις and σύστασις

86.12 κατεπειγομένη ἐπιστολ-ή, ἡ for "registered letter": You've corrected this from Modern κατεπείγουσα. OK

86.20 τᾰχῠ-δρομικὴ παρά-δοσις, εως, ἡ for "mail delivery": The established term is τᾰχῠ-δρομικὴ διανομή

87.4 ἐκλεκτ-ικὸς δίσκος, ὁ for "phone dial": The normal term is the French καντράν < cadran; Online I find a lot of τηλεφωνικὸς δίσκος, and the Iliou Encyclopaedia has δίσκος ἐπιλογῆς.

88.11 λᾱτομ-ία, ἡ, λῐθοτομ-ία, ἡ for "mine": These two are the process of mining, not the mine. Notwithstanding the Latin use of latomiae (though not latomia), I’d say these should be removed.

88.12 χαρτουργεῖον, τό for "paper factory": No longer used in Modern Greek. Add Modern Greek χαρτοποιεῖον.

89.3 λᾰβ-ίς, ίδος, ἡ for "pliers": Add θερμαστρίς

89.4 ἑλῐκο-κλειδίον for "screwdriver": Plausible, but I’m not finding it used anywhere; where did you see it? Hepites’ dictionary has κοχλιοστρόφιον.

89.5 κόχλι-ας, ου, ὁ for "screw": Perseus LSJ error: κοχλίας

89.12 ἀερο-στάθμ-η for "water-level": There is also the vernacular ἀλφάδιον, first used in mediaeval times, because old levers were A-shaped, “carpenter’s squares”; indeed, the word has made it into LSJ (like a lot of mediaeval terms, via scholia)

89.14 κνώδαξ, ᾱκος, ὁ for "tenon": cnodax in Latin. The LSJ glosses are about pivots and pins, but not specifically tenons; once again, the Latin loan from Greek has moved on in meaning. LSJ offers γομφωτήριον, διτορμία, κατοχεύς, τόρμος

89.19 ἔχμα, ατος, τό for "vice": Yes, though it does not have that meaning explicitly in Ancient or Modern Greek. Modern Greek uses σφιγκτήρ

89.22 βᾰρεῖα σφῦρᾰ, ἡ for "sledgehammer": Hepites suggests τυπίς. The Iliou Encyclopaedia confirms τυπάς as an equivalent of the Modern βαρειά, and adds ῥαιστήρ

89.26 ἐλᾰτ-ήρ, ῆρος, ὁ for "spring": Modern ἐλατήριον. Neither ἐλᾰτ-ήρ nor ἐλατήριον had that sense in Ancient Greek. The Triantafyllidis dictionary notes that Modern ἐλατήριον, as a learned coinage, comes from a confusion of Ancient ἐλατήριον “purgative” with ἐλατός “ductile”; that means that ἐλατήριον is not ideal — but on the other hand, at least ἐλατήριον has been used to mean “spring” in Greek, which is more than can be said for ἐλᾰτ-ήρ.

For the word to have made it to Neo-Latin, it is clearly old, though I can’t tell how old: it’s not in Trapp or Kriaras, but it has made it to Theocharides. At any rate, suggest replacing ἐλᾰτ-ήρ with ἐλατήριον. I see this 1838 dictionary https://books.google.gr/books?id=PZlWNy ... νι&f=false corrects it to ἑλαστήριον.

The vernacular names of the spring were σούστα (Italian), ζιμπρίκι < Turkish zemberek, and σφίνι, which shows up in Somavera 1709, and several 19th century dictionaries; it would be intriguing if σφίνι were Hellenic, but in the absence of any evidence, keep ἐλατήριον

89.27 πτυσσόμενον μέτρον, τό for "folding rule": In Modern Greek ἀναδιπλούμενος/πτυσσόμενος χάραξ. I noted in 14 that χάραξ does not have that meaninɡ in Ancient Greek, so ἀναδιπλούμενος/πτυσσόμενος κανών.

90.2 ἑλκ-υστικόν, τό for "tractor": The established formal word is ἐλκυστήρ, though of course the only word anyone knows is τρακτέρ

90.5 ἑρπ-υστικὸν ὄχ-ημα, ατος, τό for "caterpillar vehicle": ἐρπυστριοφόρον, ἐρπύστρια being caterpillar tracks. (Tanks are said to have them too.)

90.12 μ[ε]ιγνῦσα μηχᾰν-ή (λῐθο-κόλλης), ἡ for "cement mixer": This Bulgarian-Greek dictionary (!) https://books.google.gr/books?id=-ETnAA ... BDoAQhJMAg renders the established French loan μπετονιέρα as μαλακτήρ σκυροδέματος, where σκυρόδεμα “binding of stone-chippings” is in turn a rendering of concrete.

91.10 τηλέ-φων-ητής for "answering machine": I’d prefer the less ambiguous αὐτόματος τηλεφωνητής (which is what I’m familiar with), although τηλεφωνητής is used on its own both for the answering machines of yore (this dictionary really is showing its age), and for modern-day voicemail.

91.19 καταγρᾰφ-εὺς εἰκονο-ταινιῶν for "video recorder": magnetoscopium in Latin, and μαγνητοσκόπιον does exist in Greek, even if minimally used; use that instead. In fact, I have seen DVD rendered as ψηφιακὸν μαγνητοσκόπιον.

91.21 εἰκονο-ταινία for "video tape": I have only seen this online https://thecinema.gr/anakalypsicinema-merosb/ to describe the video track as opposed to the sound track on cinematic film. Where have you seen it? I would propose μαγνητοσκοπικὴ ταινία, although it occurs online all of once, or μαγνητοσκοπικὸν κῐβώτ-ιον, after μαγνητο-φων-ικὸν κῐβώτ-ιον below. (I would consider both to be neologisms.)

91.22 ὀρθὸς προβολ-εύς, έως, ὁ for "overhead projector": ἐπιδιασκόπιον. See https://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.p ... c=378015.0 for the breakdown of glosses of both this and slide projector.

91.26 μαγνητο-φων-ικὸν κῐβώτ-ιον, τό for "audio cassette": I would treat as neologisms all references to κῐβώτ-ιον calquing cassette: there is no reason to think this was ever rendered Hellenically (although ironically the word had already been independently borrowed into Cypriot Greek from Italian, to mean a case)

93.1 ὡρολόγ-ιον χειρός, τό for "wristwatch": Keep, but maybe add Iliou Encyclopaedia’s περιβραχιόνιον ὡρολόγ-ιον

93.5 πλάξ ὡρολογ-ίου, ἡ, πλᾰκός for "clock dial": δισκόβαθμον

93.8 ἐκκρεμ-ές, τό for "pendulum clock": Usage is to use ἐκκρεμ-ές for both the pendulum and the pendulum clock, but I’d suggest limiting ἐκκρεμ-ές to pendulum, which is its proper meaning, and to call the pendulum clock ὡρολόγ-ιον μετ’ ἐκκρεμοῦς, as well as κρεμ-αστὸν ὡρολόγ-ιον

93.12 στᾰτὸν ὡρολόγ-ιον, τό for "grandfather clock": I reiterate my request to calque the Modern Greek term ρολόι δαπέδου “floor clock”, and call the grandfather clock ὡρολόγ-ιον δαπέδου

93.14 δεύτερον λεπτόν, τό for "second": Add Modern δευτερόλεπτον, which is more convenient when reading out times

93.15 ἐγερτήριον, τό for "alarm clock": In Modern Greek, that’s an alarm (as in the military), not an alarm clock; and in ancient Greek, that’s just “excitement”. I’d delete

93.17 ὀγδόη ὥρα τρῐᾱκοστὸν λεπτόν for "8:30". You’re translating from Latin. The contemporary rendering is ὀκτὼ ἡ ὥρα καὶ τριάκοντα λεπτά, though I am not telling you to use that. This book from 1832 https://books.google.gr/books?id=uARfAA ... τά&f=false uses the convention τριάκοντα λεπτὰ τῆς ὀγδόης ὥρας.

We definitely want the convention to use an ordinal for the hour, since that is what is used in Greek at least since the New Testament; but minutes are first mentioned in the 13th century in the West, so there won’t be any early Greek exemplars. So I’d suggest using that early 19th century convention in the following: πεντεκαίδεκα λεπτὰ τῆς δεκάτης ὥρας, πέντε καὶ τεσσαράκοντα λεπτὰ τῆς ἑβδόμης ὥρας, εἴκοσι λεπτὰ τῆς ἐνάτης ὥρας

I will note as well that the convention of the first hour being 1 AM or 1 PM is a Modern Western innovation; Roman usage, under which the first hour was sunrise, persisted, and the Islamic convention was the first hour being at sunset. Indeed, when Western time was introduced to Greece in the 18th century (as I just discovered in Thavoris' Phd thesis from 1958), Greeks differentiated the time "alla turca" (Turkish-style), where the first hour was sunset, from the time "alla franca" (Western-style), where the first hour was 1 AM/1 PM.

94.3 ἠλεκτρῐκὸς κάλως for "electric cable": Modern Greek has only ever used καλώδιον, and Hepites even differentiates between καλώδιον and κάλως/κάλος “rope, iron cable"

94.4 βύσμα, ατος, τό: Has not been used for "electric plug". Instead, use the formal term ἠλεκτρολήπτης, ῥευματολήπτης, or ῥευματοβύσμα

94.5 δοτ-ήρ, ῆρος, ὁ for "electric socket": Instead use ἠλεκτροδότης, ῥευματοδότης

94.16 ἀμπέρ for "Ampere": Or ἀμπέριον as a neologism

95.15 εἴδ-ησεις, εων, αἱ for "news": εἰδήσεις

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Post by opoudjis » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:26 am

Note that the pictures of 96 and 97 have been swapped in the original book.

96.8 σελὶς ἐπιγρᾰφ-ῆς, ίδος, ἡ for "frontispiece": The established term in Modern Greek is προμετωπίς, though both it and frontispicium originally had quite different meanings

96.10 ἑβδομ-ᾰδικὴ ἔκ-δοσις, εως, ἡ for "weekly newspaper": I’d prefer ἑβδομαδικὴ ἐφημερ-ίς. This is a correction of the Modern εβδομαδιαίος

96.12 κεφάλαι-ον [ᾰ] γράμμα, ατος, τό for "capital letter": This is a correction of the Modern κεφαλαίος

96.22 ἀρχι-σῠν-τάκ-της for "editor in chief": add ἀρχι-σῠν-τάκ-τρια

96.24 γρᾰφ-ή, ἡ for "handwriting": I’d use the seemingly redundant (but very much in use now) χειρόγραφος γρᾰφ-ή

97.2 φωτο-γρᾰφ-ημα for "photograph" (Latin photographema): You’re right, though Modern Greek calls both photos and photography φωτογραφία. I think Wikipedia https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Φωτογράφημα is the only publication I've seen to make the distinction now.

97.4 φωτο-γρᾰφ-ικὸν τρῐπόδ-ιον, τό for "camera tripod": Only τρίποδας has been used, which is just the Modern form of τρίπους

97.7 στερεο-φων-ικὸν συγκρότ-ημα, ατος, τό for "stereo system": Also (now that the novelty of stereo sound has worn off) ἠχοσύστημα, calque of English sound system

97.8 σκηνῐκ-ὸν σύγ-γραμμα, ατος, τό for "screenplay": This in Modern Greek is squarely the Italian σενάριο. I’m inclined to propose the old (no longer in use) κινηματόδραμα, which perhaps properly refers to a movie and not just the script; maybe to make absolutely sure that this is the script, perhaps σύγγραμα κινηματοδράματος. You refer to films below, and Greek and English both use the medium ("film") to refer to the movie

97.12 κῑν-ηματο-γρᾰφ-ικὴ ταινία, ἡ for "film": As noted above, this is “film”, which is used to refer to both the medium and the work; the instance of pellicula angusta "8mm film" in 97.14 confirms that the dictionary intended the medium, which is the proper meaning of ταινία

97.15 κῑν-ηματο-γρᾰφ-ικὸν τεχν-ύφιον, τό for "movie studio": technyphion cinematicum in the Latin. τεχν-ύφιον is a Greek word that has only ever appeared in Latin (Suetonius), so it should not be used here. Since the word means a workshop, and that’s what an artist's studio is also, I think κῑν-ηματο-γρᾰφ-ικὸν ἐργαστήριον would be fine. (And in fact the Iliou Encyclopaedia bemoans the lack of Greek ἐργαστήρια κινηματογράφου).

97.16 μῖμος, ου, ὁ for "actor": “mime” is dangerous to use, and given ὑπο-κρῐτής, unnecessary

97.17 κῑν-ηματο-γρᾰφ-ικὴ ἐγγρᾰφ-ή, ἡ for "(film) shot": Not an established term perhaps (it’s French πλάνο in Modern Greek), but makes sense. However the established term for the recording of a movie image is λῆψις. Your call whether it makes sense.

97.18 εἰσᾰγωγ-εύς, έως, ὁ: That’s a chorus director, but I guess it’s as close as Ancient Athens had to a movie director….

98.2 ἐπιγρᾰφ-ή, ἡ for "heading": Yes, although vague. Add the modern ἐπικεφαλίς

98.3 κράσπεδ-ον, τό: Never used for “margin”. Use instead μέτωπον, μετώπιον (Galen), and Modern περιθ[ε]ώριον

98.4 κῶλον, τό for "paragraph": Not περίοδος?

98.5 γραμμή, ἡ for "line of text": That’s what is used now, but it was clearly στίχος in antiquity, whether prose or verse.

98.5, 98.14 λᾰτίνὴ [ῑ] ἄνω τελεία, λᾰτῑνον ἐρωτ-ηματικόν "semicolon, question mark": No, λατινικὴ. I don’t think Λατίνη “of Latium; (mediaeval) Catholic” makes sense

98.17 λόγος, ὁ for "sentence": Anything but the most ambiguous word of Greek. How about κῶλον? Modern Greek has πρότασις, but in Ancient Greek that would be too mixed up with logic (“proposition”).

99.5 τρᾰπεζῑτ-ικὸν βιβλ-άριον, τό for "savings book": Modern Greek has just τραπεζικὸν βιβλιάριον, and that makes sense to me: it’s a bank booklet, not a banker booklet.

99.9 τρᾰπεζῑτ-ικὴ ἐπι-τᾰγή, ἡ for "cheque": Again, τραπεζικὴ

99.18 διάθεσις χρημάτων [ᾰ], εως, ἡ for "investment": Add Modern ἐπένδυσις, which is a calque of French investment

99.19 ξένον νόμ-ισμα, ατος, τό: Add Modern metonymy συνάλλαγμα (< foreign exchange)

99.21 προθεσμία κατά-θεσις, εως, ἡ: σταθερὰ προθεσμία κατά-θεσις; the dictionary is differentiating between fixed term deposits (here) and time deposits (99.22, προθεσμία κατά-θεσις, εως, ἡ).

100.4 ὀχ-ημᾰτῐκὴ ἀσφάλ-εια [φᾰ], ας, ἡ for "vehicle insurance": The idiomatic expression is ἀσφάλ-εια αὐτοκινήτου; add

100.7 ἐμπορ-ία, ἡ: This is wholesale commerce, and I’m not sure ἐμπορ-ία on its own rules out retail: maybe ἐμπορ-ία χύδην

100.8 κᾰπηλ-εία, ἡ for "retail": Add κοτυλισμός, κοτυλίζειν

100.12 ἐλάττ-ωσις τῆς τῑμ-ῆς, εως, ἡ for "discount": Add Modern ἔκπτωσις (which did not have that meaning in antiquity), and ὑφαίρεσις (which is not used for discounts, but is used for rebates, and whose sense in LSJ is at least closer)

100.17 ἐμπορ-ικὸς ἀγων-ισμός, ὁ for "competition": Also ἐμπορικὴ ἅμιλλα

100.17 ἀντᾰγωνιστικ-ότης: That is competitiveness; competition is just ἀνταγωνισμός

101.1 τελεί-ωσις τοῦ κρίματος, εως, ἡ for "compulsory execution": Makes sense. The Modern expression is ἀναγκαστικὴ ἐκτέλεσις

101.4 ὑπὸ σύνταξιν κατάταξις, εως, ἡ for "retirement": Add Modern συνταξιοδότησις. κατάταξις is an odd choice; I’d have thought ἀποχώρισις

101.7 μετοχ-ὴ κέρδους, ἡ for "profit sharing": The established term is διανομὴ κερδῶν

101.11 ἐμπορ-ικὴ συμπλοκή, ἡ: This is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concern_(business), a German notion; unlike a Kartell (101.9, κοινο-πρᾱγία), where companies decline to complete but retain their economic autonomy, Concerns retain only legal autonomy, but surrender their economic and managerial autonomy: they are the results of mergers.

The Greek for this seems to be ἕνωσις ἑταιρειῶν; see e.g. the discussion on https://www.taxheaven.gr/acforum/topic/ ... εταιρειών/ (which makes it very clear that an ἕνωσις is not a mere cartel, and that the merged companies remain separate legal entities)

101.13 συλλογ-ῐμαία σύμβᾰσις, εως, ἡ for "collective pay agreement": συλλογικός for “collective” is a modern coinage, but συλλογιμαῖος “collected from diverse places” is not really the same thing. I’d propose ἀθρόα σύμβασις

102.9 ὑπουργ-ὸς τῆς δημοσίας ἐκπαιδ-εύσεως for "minister of education". Given in Latin as administer cultus eruditionisque. The fixed expression in Greek is ὑπουργ-ὸς τῆς παιδείας. The combined title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_ ... nd_Culture is ὑπουργ-ὸς τῆς παιδείας καὶ τοῦ πολιτισμοῦ. But if I parse https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kultusministerium correctly, when Germans say Kultusministerium, they don’t actually mean Culture, they just mean Education; at any rate, education being a State matter in Germany, what the dictionary is likely actually describing is a State ministry (cf. Bavaria: Bayerisches Staatsministerium für Unterricht und Kultus)

Which I think means make it ὑπουργ-ὸς τῆς παιδείας; the Kultus “culture” is a distraction, and Cultus Eruditionisque is German for Eruditionis.

102.13 ἐκλογ-ή, ἡ for "election": Add χειροτονία

103.3 πολῑτ-ῐκὸς σύλλογ-ος, ὁ for "protest": Very good choice of words

103.4 δημο-σκόπ-ευσις for "opinion poll": Correction of Modern δημοσκόπησις

103.6 ὑπόψηφος for "candidate": Νο, ὑποψήφιος

103.7 παραχώρ-ησις, εως, ἡ, ἀπόθεσις, εως, ἡ for "resignation": Modern παραίτησις is more distant in its ancient meaning than these, leave alone

104.8 ψηφο-λόγημα, ατος, τό for "mosaic": Maybe add Modern ψηφιδωτόν

105.13 μετέωρον ὄχ-ημα, ατος, τό for "carriage": I see this is in Lécluse’s 1823 dictionary and in Stephanus. OK, but this is no longer in use. I’d have thought it’s a mere ἅμαξα, but of course from my vantage point, all ἅμαξαι look the same

105.15 βᾰσίλ-εια τῆς ἀναγενν-ήσεως for "renaissance palace": Do you need the plural? I would add ἀνάκτορον, but I see that in antiquity this was primarily a dwelling of the gods and not of mortal kings

106.6 γᾰμέτ-ης, ου, ὁ for "husband": add παρακοίτης for symmetry with 106.5

106.17 ἀδελφ-ὴ [ᾰ] τῆς μητρός, ἡ for "maternal aunt": Add νάννη

106.18 μητρ-άδελφος [ᾰδ], ὁ for "maternal uncle": Add μήτρως

106.19 θεία πρὸς πατρός, ἡ for "paternal aunt": Add πάτρα

106.20 πατρ-άδελφος [ᾰδ], ὁ for "paternal uncle": Add πάτρως

106.24 γῠνὴ τοῦ υἱοῦ, ἡ, γυναικός for "daughter-in-law": Delete, we have simpler expressions which you give below

106.29 προδρομ-εγγόνη, ἡ for "great-granddaughter": Error in Perseus LSJ: προεγγόνη.

106.30 προϋιωνός, ὁ for "great-grandson": A bit obscure dialectally; delete? I was going to suggest adding Modern δισέγγονος, but its original meaning was adnepos, “fourth grandson” = great-great-great-grandson https://books.google.gr/books?id=FTtEAA ... es&f=false (i.e. grandson’s grandson’s son; I don’t know how the δίς works)

107.2 δαίμων, ονος, ἡ: daemon is way too overloaded to use for “fairy”

107.4 βδέλλ-ᾰ, ἡ for "vampire": leeches suck blood, but it’s a stretch to use “leech” for vampire. If you’re going to have female monsters here like Λάμιᾰ, Γελλώ and Ἔμπουσα are probably more on point

107.9 Γοργάς, άδος, ἡ for "mermaid": The Modern γοργόνα is derived from Γοργώ. I see why you went with Γοργάς, since it has a plural form meaning “sea nymphs”. But Hesiod had already said that the Gorgons were the daughters of sea goddesses, so I don’t think the Gorgades and the Gorgons were essentially different.

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