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Post by hotelmorocco » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:44 am


Just joined this forum/site
I am currently stuck on the first few sentences of a story I am trying to translate from Attic Greek.
Here it is:

Ἂνθρωπός τις εκάλει ἐπί τό δειπνον τούς ἐαυτου ζένους,
ὀ δέ τουτου κύων ἂλλον κύνα ἐκάλει, λέγων, "εὖ δειπήσεις, ὦ φιλε, μετά ἐμου."

So, I would translate the first sentence as:
A certain man himself was calling the foreigners to dinner,
and this dog was calling another dog, saying, "Eat well with me, dear."

I think there is something really wrong about my translation.
I'm first confused about 'ἐαυτου' in the first sentence and 'τουτου' in the second.
They're both genitive singulars but I cannot seem to wrap my head around where I could possibly put them if not with the nominative subjects of the sentences. Am I entirely wrong? I would guess I am because pronouns and such should always gnc.

Please let me know!

Last edited by hotelmorocco on Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by mwh » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:41 am


The clue is the position of εαυτου and τουτου — sandwiched between article and noun.
ξενος doesn’t always mean foreigner.
Check δειπνήσεις.

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Post by Qimmik » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:53 am

τος ἐαυτο ξένους (not ζένους; note the accentuation):

ἐαυτου is a reflexive pronoun--the antecedent is the subject Ἂνθρωπός τις. "his guests"

ὀ δέ τούτου κύων:

τούτου is a demonstrative pronoun. Here it too means "his" and because it refers back to a noun that is not the subject of the sentence, it's not reflexive.

In both cases, the genitive pronouns mean "his" and refer to the Ἂνθρωπός τις, and they are both sandwiched in between the definitive article and the noun, which is the typical Greek word order. In English we wouldn't use the definitive article before the nouns "guests" and "dog", but in Greek this is the norm, and the possessive (genitive) pronoun is sandwiched between the article and the noun.

Also note that δειπήσεις is future: "you will dine well, my dear friend, with me" i.e., on what my master throws away after his feast.

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Post by mwh » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:17 pm

You should tell your prof you've had help.

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Post by jeidsath » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:31 pm

I think that Perry lists the following as 328, or Babrius 42 [I love Perry's Aesopica, but my complete lack of Latin means that it's hard for me to get around in]. Is there a prose version? There is no friend invited to the feast in this version, but it seems that the English floating around has it, as does hotelmorocco's professor's version.
Κύων ἑστιώμενος

Δεῖπνόν τις εἶχε λαμπρὸν ἐν πόλει θύσας.
ὁ κύων δὲ τούτου κυνὶ φίλῳ συναντήσας
ἐλθεῖν πρὸς αὑτὸν ἐπὶ τὸ δεῖπνον ἠρώτα.
κἀκεῖνος ἦλθε· τὸν δὲ τοῦ σκέλους ἄρας
ὁ μάγειρος ἐκτὸς ἐξέριψε τοῦ τοίχου
εἰς τὴν ἄγυιαν. τῶν κυνῶν δ’ ἐρωτώντων
ὅπως ἐδείπνησ’, εἶπε “πῶς γᾶρ ἄν κρεῖττον,
ὅς οὐδὲ ποίην άναλύειν με γινώσκω;”
This morning with a little internet searching I found Chambry 178, but it was not nearly as much fun as flipping through Aesopica searching for Κύων stories. Note the varying use of αὐτοῦ and τούτου. The Chambry αὐτοῦ was the easierfor me to understand than hotelmorocco's professor. And could Babrius have used οὗ instead of τούτου if it hadn't been for the meter? Or is τούτου there performing a switch of topic?
Κύων ἑστιώμενος.

Ἄνθρωπός τις ἡτοίμαζε δεῖπνον, ἑστιάσων τινὰ τῶν φίλων αὐτῷ καὶ οἰκείων. Ὁ δὲ κύων αὐτοῦ ἄλλον κύνα ἐκάλει, λέγων· " Ὦ φίλε, δεῦρο συνδείπνησόν μοι. " Ὁ δὲ προσελθὼν χαίρων ἵστατο, βλέπων τὸ μέγα δεῖπνον, βοῶν ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ· "Βαβαί, πόση μοι χαρὰ ἄρτι ἐξαπιναίως ἐφάνη· τραφήσομαί τε γὰρ καὶ εἰς κόρον δειπνήσω, ὥστε με αὔριον μηδαμῆ γε πεινᾶσαι. " Ταῦτα καθ' ἑαυτὸν λέγοντος τοῦ κυνὸς καὶ ἅμα σείοντος τὴν κέρκον, ὡς δὴ εἰς τὸν φίλον θαρροῦντος, ὁ μάγειρος, ὡς εἶδε τοῦτον ὧδε κἀκεῖσε τὴν κέρκον. Περιστρέφοντα, κατασχὼν τὰ σκέλη αὐτοῦ ἔρριψε παραχρῆμα ἔξωθεν τῶν θυρίδων. Ὁ δὲ κατιὼν ἀπῄει μεγάλως κράζων. Τῶν τις δὲ κυνῶν, τῶν καθ' ὁδὸν αὐτῷ σαναντώντων, ἐπηρώτα· " Πῶς ἐδείπνησας, φίλος; " Ὁ δὲ πρὸς αὐτὸν ὑπολαβὼν ἔφη· " Ἐκ τῆς πολλῆς πόσεως μεθυσθεὶς ὑπὲρ κόρον οὐδὲ τὴν ὁδὸν αὐτὴν ὅθεν ἐξῆλθον οἶδα."

Ὁ μῦθος δηλοῖ ὅτι οὐ δεῖ θαρρεῖν τοῖς ἐξ ἀλλοτρίων εὖ ποιεῖν ἐπαγγελλομένοις.
Joel Eidsath --

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