Testing fonts

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Diane
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Testing fonts

Post by Diane » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:41 pm

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Bert
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Post by Bert » Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:33 pm

I don't know how it looks on your screen but it looks good from where I'm sitting.

Yhevhe
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Post by Yhevhe » Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:55 am

:( You sure have a hard time with this...

I see it right too.

Diane
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Post by Diane » Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:51 am

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Paul
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Post by Paul » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:20 pm

Diane wrote:Help.

Moving right along, I am now trying to get into GTSS using Firefox and the instructions Bert just sent me. Ok, able to sign in. Author diane, lesson 11. And Bob's your uncle. I am in and I can see Greek. In the exact same browser window that I cannot see Greek in on the Forum. The encoding is Western European ISO 8859-1

Well, I suppose if I can see Greek in GTSS and everyone else can see what I type in betacode as Greek this is going to work. Surely would like to know what is going on with the encoding.
Hi Diane,

If it's any comfort, neither can I get Firefox fonts to work properly with SPIonic. Firefox 1.0.2 under Windows 2000 simply will not show Greek glyphs - at least not in response to SPIonic. But GTSS lessons (which don't use SPIonic) look fine.

BTW: the proper encoding for textkit's pages is iso-8859-1.

Cordially,

Paul

Yhevhe
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Post by Yhevhe » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:55 pm

I'm using Firefox 1.0.4 under Win XP (Christo?) and I can see the SPIonic...

Diane
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Post by Diane » Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:27 pm

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Paul
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Post by Paul » Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:58 pm

Hi Diane,
Diane wrote:What I am seeing in GTSS is partially Greek glyphs and partially question marks.

Have tried changing code page and it makes no difference.
While viewing a GTSS lesson, one that shows this 'partial' phenomenon, starting with the Firefox toolbar, navigate as follows:

Tools -> Options -> General -> Fonts & Colors

read me the settings for:

Fonts for:
Proportional:
Serif:
Sans Serif:

and the value of the checkbox titled 'Always use my fonts'. Thanks.

Diane wrote:
Yhevhe wrote:I'm using Firefox 1.0.4 under Win XP (Christo?) and I can see the SPIonic...
In the forum? In GTSS? Could you please tell me exactly what settings you are using? I am sure there is some small setting that will solve the whole problem.
There may not be such a setting. I neglected to mention in my first post that I can see Greek glyphs from SPIonic when under Windows XP. It seems to me not unlikely that under 98 and 2000 Firefox has a bug in its handling of SPIonic.

Cordially,

Paul

Diane
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Post by Diane » Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:00 pm

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Yhevhe
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Post by Yhevhe » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:05 am

One of the two reasons I just changed from Win 98 to XP was because I couldn't see certain greek glyphs, just small boxes, more or less like your question marks problem. I really used to get mad when I couldn't see greek properly :evil:

Diane
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Post by Diane » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:22 am

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Yhevhe
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Post by Yhevhe » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:42 pm

I changed to XP for that same problem... Every letter with an accent didn't show, and I needed unicode. I think that was my only choice...

Paul
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Post by Paul » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:33 pm

Hi Diane,
Diane wrote:Experiments with GTSS
Have just clicked on every word with a question mark in it and looked at the Perseus lookup tool. Apparently the ? is when there is an accent over a letter. Does not seem to matter which accent or which letter, vowel or consonant.
What you describe is definitely a font issue. Whatever the effective font is, it is not able to map characters in the 'extended greek' range (e.g., those with certain diacritics) to the proper glyph. Hence the the '?'.

Do you have any of these fonts:

arial unicode ms,
palatino linotype,
georgia greek,
cardo,
galilee unicode gk,
gentium,
vusillus old face italic

I'm sure forum members can suggest others.
Diane wrote: Part of the problem is that in Preferences it says that the font used is arial unicode ms and I don't seem to have that font. Cannot figure out how to change this font in GTSS.
Apparently I cannot override the font set in GTSS. Since I don't have that font and cannot figure out how to change the font in GTSS Firefox must be making its best guess, which is not working.
To update your GTSS preferences:

1. click on 'Preferences' tab to activate its tabspace
2. change the 'font family' value for the first 3 preferences (lesson text, your translation, another's translation) to the name of a unicode font.
3. right-click on the 'Preferences' tab to raise its context menu
4. click on the entry that reads 'Update Preferences'

Cordially,

Paul

Diane
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Post by Diane » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:26 am

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Diane
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Post by Diane » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:01 am

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Yhevhe
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Post by Yhevhe » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:47 pm

Maybe what you need is Paul's AGTM

Paul
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Post by Paul » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:02 pm

Diane wrote:YEA! YEA! YEA!

Can't type it because his keyboard utility does not work with my 98 SE. Tried typing into WordPad using Cardo font, see Greek glyphs, copy them into GTSS, see Roman alphabet.

If I use Beta Code to post Pharr Exercise 12 will you guys be able to figure out what I am doing?
Hi Diane,

I am happy about your progress!

I do recall hearing somewhere that Windows 98 and ME do not fully support entering Polytonic Greek, even by means of, say, Tavultesoft's Keyman program.

But GTSS understands betacode so you should have no difficulty entering the E->G exercises.

Cordially,

Paul

Bert
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Post by Bert » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:27 pm

Paul wrote:
But GTSS understands betacode so you should have no difficulty entering the E->G exercises.

Cordially,

Paul
Betacode being so close to SPIonic makes me think that entering the lesson in SPIonic in wordpad and then pasting it in GTSS should work as well.

Paul
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Post by Paul » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:35 am

Bert wrote: Betacode being so close to SPIonic makes me think that entering the lesson in SPIonic in wordpad and then pasting it in GTSS should work as well.
Unfortunately (or maybe it's for the best), GTSS wants proper betacode, e.g., final sigma is 's', not 'j' and caps are done with asterisk, e.g., *)axilleu/s.

Cordially,

Paul

Diane
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Post by Diane » Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:08 am

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Yhevhe
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Post by Yhevhe » Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:58 pm

Do you mean something like this?

α=a β=b γ=g δ=d ε=e φ=f λ=l η=h ι=i κ=k ο=o ω=w μ=m ν=n υ=u ψ=y ς,ς=s ξ=c χ=x ζ=z π=p τ=t ρ=r θ=q

ὁ = ( -- rough breathing
ὀ = ) -- smooth breathing
ά = / -- acute
ὰ = \ -- grave
ῆ = = -- circumflex
ῳ = | -- iota subscript
ϊ = + -- diaeresis


The order is: letter, breathing, accent, iota subscript, etc.
If the letter is a capital, you should put an asterisc (*) before it, and after the asterisc (but before the letter) put the breathing, accent (much like in handwriting :))

Diane
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Post by Diane » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:48 pm

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Yhevhe
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Post by Yhevhe » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:13 pm

Don't dispair... it get's me even more nervious :? Linux and this modem is going to make me all crazy.

If you already know Betacode, it's all done :) What Paul said above may be the only thing that differs from the one used sometimes.

I did the handwritten coment because when you write a capital letter, you must put the accent and breating before the letter, not above it. The same is for Betacode, just that for small ones you cannot put them above, just at the right.

Paul
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Post by Paul » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:45 pm

Hi Diane,
Diane wrote: oops.

I can see Greek glyphs in several of my programs, WordPad, Wordperfect, but I don't have Word. When I try to copy into GTSS it doesn't work.
The mere phenomena will suffice. What do you see that makes you say 'it doesn't work'?
Diane wrote: Tonight I got my E > G translations all pretty and then printed off your Beta Code sheet to encode them so as to enter them into GTSS. Now you are telling me I have to learn another form of BetaCode?
As Yhevhe already noted, the differences between the faux betacode used by SPIonic and proper Betacode used by GTSS are slight. There are really only two main differences, capital letters and final sigma. Here are some examples:


Capital gamma

SPIonic = G
Betacode = *g


Capital alpha with smooth breathing

SPIonic = )A
Betacode = *)a


Capital alpha with rough breathing and acute accent

SPIonic = (/A
Betacode = *(/a


Final sigma

SPIonic = j
Betacode = s

That's it I think.

BTW: GTSS does support a 'paste translation' function (see the doc http://www.greekgeek.org/gtss.pdf )

Cordially,

Paul

Diane
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Post by Diane » Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:40 am

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Paul
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Post by Paul » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:20 pm

Hi Diane,

That helps. :)

When you type Betacode into GTSS it will at first appear as Betacode. The only way to type Unicode (and see Greek glyphs as you type) is with keyboard mapping software like Tavultesoft's Keyman program.

But after you publish your lesson, it should be re-presented to you showing Greek glyphs. If it is not, there are four possible causes:

a. you don't have a Unicode font
b. you have a Unicode font but it is not configured with the browser
c. it is configured but your browser has a bug
d. you've changed your GTSS preferences to prevent automatic conversion of Betacode to Unicode

So, after you publish, and the the lesson is re-presented, what do you see - Betacode (e.g., the same text you entered) or Unicode (Greek glyphs)?

I am sorry that the encodings got you down. It really isn't as complex as you feel it to be. I would encourage you not even to think about it. As problems come up, fear not, we'll deal with them.

However, I am troubled by how easily you divined our deeper and darker intent. Indeed, the study group 'guides' (such an innocent sounding name!) at Textkit are trying to found a new Eleusis! :D

Cordially,

Paul

P.S. - at this writing greekgeek.org is down. If it's not up within a few hours, I'll inform my ISP. They're usually pretty good about this stuff.

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