A swede with a problem!!!

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danneolz
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A swede with a problem!!!

Post by danneolz » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:23 am

Hi!
I´m a swede with a problem. I know little, almost nothing about the language of latin. I need help with translating a text from english to latin.
Please, please help me!
The text is:

There´s so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Mark Knoppfler, Dire Straits. sing/songwriter.

If there is a nice soul out there please mail me at danneolz@yahoo.se.

Daniel
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Post by Barrius » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:46 pm

Wish I knew enough to answer you, but I'll have to watch for responses, or wait until the song comes out.

Dacicus
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Post by Dacicus » Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:41 am

Do you want the translation to have a similar rhythm, or do you just want it to get the same idea across? In other words, are you focusing only on the content or also on the structure?

danneolz
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Post by danneolz » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:54 am

Dacicus wrote:Do you want the translation to have a similar rhythm, or do you just want it to get the same idea across? In other words, are you focusing only on the content or also on the structure?
First of all I want it to be translated correctley, the words and the mening of the phrase most be similar.
If you also can get a rythm to it, it would be perfect/wonderful. :)

Daniel

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Post by Kasper » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:40 am

I'll give it shot:

There´s so many different worlds
tam multa sunt alia munda
So many different suns
tam multi alii soles
And we have just one world
unus etiam est nobis
But we live in different ones
in autem vivimus aliis.

It's not terribly poetic, but for a literal translation I believe it suffices. It sort of follows the rhytm too, I think.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”

danneolz
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Post by danneolz » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:46 am

Kasper wrote:I'll give it shot:

There´s so many different worlds
tam multa sunt alia munda
So many different suns
tam multi alii soles
And we have just one world
unus etiam est nobis
But we live in different ones
in autem vivimus aliis.

It's not terribly poetic, but for a literal translation I believe it suffices. It sort of follows the rhytm too, I think.
It follows the rythm, and it looks fine to me. Thanks!!!
Are there other ways to translate it or is this the best!!!
What do you people think?

Thanks again!

Daniel

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benissimus
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Re: A swede with a problem!!!

Post by benissimus » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:03 pm

there are a lot of ways to say it. Someone with verse skills could probably even turn it into Latin metre. Here is my rendition anyway
danneolz wrote:There´s so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones
quot varii sunt mundi
tot varii sunt soles
et nobis cum solus sit mundus
singulos tamen habitamus
Last edited by benissimus on Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae

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Post by Moerus » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:23 pm

The translation of Benissimus is very good!
The one of Kasper is also ok, but with little mistakes as mundus, i, m and not munda which would be the neutral plural of the adjective mundus or something like that.

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Post by Kasper » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:43 pm

uhm... yeah... alii mundi of course.. :oops: :oops:

Allow me to questions Bene's habitemus, however. Does habitare not imply a physical inhabiting? I doubt that is the meaning of the lines.

Not to imply any imperfection in our great moderator of course.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”

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Post by Moerus » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:52 pm

Indeed!
Habitare is said of single persons and would be correct in that sense, but in classical prose it is not used with an accusative, but with prepositions.
Incolere is said of nations and populations and stays with prepositions as cis, trans, inter, prope or adverbia. But not with 'in'! Incolere is also used in each sense with an accusative.

In classical prose it would be better to put incolere or habitare with a preposition, but here it's not prose, but poetry and so there is more freedom in the constructions. I would agree with the use of singulos habitare in poetry. I think singulos is used nicely by the way!

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benissimus
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Post by benissimus » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:32 am

Thank you Moerus and Kasper, you are quite right. I was not aware that using that verb without a preposition was considered a poetic usage :oops: ... but I fixed it so no one who sees it will ever know muahahaha! (unless they read this post), edit: wait, no I unfixed it because I want to be poetic! (a bit undecisive today...)
Kasper wrote:Not to imply any imperfection in our great moderator of course.
There's no need to fear my wrath, Episcopus is the only one who ever gets "moderated" ;) (because I love him so much)
Last edited by benissimus on Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae

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Post by Kasper » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:19 am

To supplement my irrumans mistake before of mundA, may I just ask what exactly the diffence or the different use is between autem and tamen? Or is the difference too little really put into words?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”

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benissimus
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Post by benissimus » Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:45 am

You probably know that tamen means "nevertheless" and autem means "however". There really isn't a huge distinction between the words "nevertheless" and "however", some dictionaries even list them as synonyms. In my opinion, "nevertheless" (i.e. tamen) is the stronger of the two, stating a contrary more emphatically. autem is so weak it is often translated as "but". autem is often used to further a statement in a logical sequence and in those cases it has little or no contradictory force at all.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae

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Post by danneolz » Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:00 am

I´m so grateful for your help, Kasper and Benissimus.

When I in the late 90´s heard the songs of Dire Straits and their lead guitarrist, sing/songwriter, Mark Knopfler it changed my values and toke me down another path of my life.
Espessially this song made the difference:

Brothers in Arms


These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day you'll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And you'll no longer burn
To be brothers in arm

Through these fields of destruction
Baptism of fire
I've watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms

There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones


Now the sun's gone to hell
And the moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it's written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
We're fools to make war
On our brothers in arms

Thanks!

Daniel

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Post by Episcopus » Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:05 pm

I think that his rendering was excellent. Has a nice rhythm it do.
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