Translation Questions

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Infern0
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Translation Questions

Post by Infern0 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:45 am

Hi all!

I'm taking my course in Latin and I came across a Latin sentence that I'm not quite sure how to translate:

"Mea puellae formam portis dat"

I translated the sentence as "My girl gives form/shape/beauty to the gates," but that sounds funny to me? Is this translation correct? I believe "portis" is the plural dative? "Formam" is the singular accusative?

Thanks for your guys help!

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thesaurus
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Re: Translation Questions

Post by thesaurus » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:10 pm

Infern0 wrote: "Mea puellae formam portis dat"

I translated the sentence as "My girl gives form/shape/beauty to the gates," but that sounds funny to me? Is this translation correct? I believe "portis" is the plural dative? "Formam" is the singular accusative?
The correct sentence would be, "Mea puella formam portis dat," which would translate as you suggest. Puella must be put in the nominative singular form (to be the subject, and to agree in case with "mea"). Formam is the singular accusative. Portis is dative plural.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute

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Re: Translation Questions

Post by adrianus » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:56 pm

For what it's worth, I believe it CAN mean also "My girl takes herself to the gates." ("gives her outline to").
Et hoc significari potest, ut credo (quod forsit non tanti est): "Puella mea ad portas recedit."
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

Infern0
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Re: Translation Questions

Post by Infern0 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:44 pm

Oh you're right, I added an extra "e" to the end of puella.. >< Thanks! The TA told us the translation was "My girlfriend gives beauty to the gates." So, that was pretty close. I didn't know "puella" could also mean girlfriend though.

Thanks for the help!

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Re: Translation Questions

Post by furrykef » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:08 am

Very strange sentence, I think. I don't think it does much good to translate such things unless either it appears in a text you're reading or there is some cultural context that it can shed light upon.
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Infern0
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Re: Translation Questions

Post by Infern0 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:22 am

furrykef wrote:Very strange sentence, I think. I don't think it does much good to translate such things unless either it appears in a text you're reading or there is some cultural context that it can shed light upon.
Yeah, that is exactly why our entire class was so confused on the translation! My TA explained that since our vocabulary is very limited right now (this being the first week of class), some of the translations may not make much sense, but that he wanted us to be able to tell the different parts of the sentences and the cases. As our vocabulary expands, the sentences will begin to make more sense. We're currently working on the third chapter of Wheelock's and also reading from a companion book called 38 Latin Stories by Anne Groton and James May.

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Re: Translation Questions

Post by furrykef » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:27 am

I've done all forty chapters of Wheelock and all thirty-five chapters of Lingua Latina Vol. I and it still doesn't make much sense to me.
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Re: Translation Questions

Post by Infern0 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:00 am

Hi,

If I want to use the adjective "antīqua" to describe a nominative, singluar, masculine noun (i.e. populus), is it declined as "antīquus" or "antīqus"?

Also, I was practicing the translation exercises in Chapter 3 of Wheelock's (page 21) and had a question for the translation of #10. The English sentence is "We see great fortune in your daugthers' lives, my friend." The translation that I worked out is as follows: "Hodiē fortunam magnam in vītīs fīlīae tuae vidēmus, amīcus meus." I got a bit confused on which case to use for some of the nouns. I'm pretty sure "great fortune" is the accusative because its the direct object. "In your daughters' lives" can be rewritten as "in the lives of your daughters" in which case "daughters" would be genitive and "lives" would be in the ablative?

Oh, and for #11 of the same page, The English sentence is "He always gives my daughters and sons roses." My question is do we translate my daughters and sons using a single phrase? So the translation would be "Filiīs meīs rosās semper dat?" Is there a need to distinguish daughters from sons? In this case, the declension would be the same for both, but theoretically, if the declensions were different, do we need to translate both separately? Or is it like Spanish, where the masculine term would also translate as both male and female together?

Thanks! :)

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furrykef
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Re: Translation Questions

Post by furrykef » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:04 am

Infern0 wrote:is it declined as "antīquus" or "antīqus"?
Antīquus. "Antīqus" wouldn't be possible because the "u" after a "q" acts like a "w" and therefore must always precede a vowel.
Also, I was practicing the translation exercises in Chapter 3 of Wheelock's (page 21) and had a question for the translation of #10. The English sentence is "We see great fortune in your daugthers' lives, my friend." The translation that I worked out is as follows: "Hodiē fortunam magnam in vītīs fīlīae tuae vidēmus, amīcus meus."
Hodiē magnam fortūnam in vītārum fīliārum tuārum vidēmus, amīce mī.

Also note that only the first "i" in "fīlia" is long, and fortūnam has a long "u". Remember too that both "amīcus" and "meus" have special vocative forms ("amīcus -> amīce" since it's masculine second declension; "meus -> mī" because it's irregular).
I got a bit confused on which case to use for some of the nouns. I'm pretty sure "great fortune" is the accusative because its the direct object. "In your daughters' lives" can be rewritten as "in the lives of your daughters" in which case "daughters" would be genitive and "lives" would be in the ablative?
Correct.
Oh, and for #11 of the same page, The English sentence is "He always gives my daughters and sons roses." My question is do we translate my daughters and sons using a single phrase? So the translation would be "Filiīs meīs rosās semper dat?" Is there a need to distinguish daughters from sons? In this case, the declension would be the same for both, but theoretically, if the declensions were different, do we need to translate both separately? Or is it like Spanish, where the masculine term would also translate as both male and female together?
"Fīlia" has an irregular dative and ablative form in the plural: fīliābus. The text mentions this somewhere. I think "fīliīs" may nonetheless be sufficient to cover both (although the book probably wants you to use "fīliābus" just to show that you know it).

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Re: Translation Questions

Post by Craig_Thomas » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:24 pm

furrykef wrote:
Infern0 wrote:Also, I was practicing the translation exercises in Chapter 3 of Wheelock's (page 21) and had a question for the translation of #10. The English sentence is "We see great fortune in your daugthers' lives, my friend." The translation that I worked out is as follows: "Hodiē fortunam magnam in vītīs fīlīae tuae vidēmus, amīcus meus."
Hodiē magnam fortūnam in vītārum fīliārum tuārum vidēmus, amīce mī.
magnam, mī amīce, fortūnam in vītīs fīliārum tuārum vidēmus.

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