Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

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NateD26
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Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Post by NateD26 »


ἐμὲ παράδειγμα ποιούμενος, ὥσπερ ἂν <εἰ> εἴποι ὅτι...

Smyth says in 2478 that ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ is used with the optative "commonly when τίς is the subject",
and that ὥσπερ ἂν "represents the suppressed apodosis (here a potential optative) to the condition with εἰ".

What is the suppressed apodosis here?
This commentary (p.120 B.) suggests it was something with ποιούμενος.
Maybe something like this: ὥσπερ ἄν τις ποιοῖ εἰ εἴποι » "just as (one might make) if one would say that..." ?
Nate.

modus.irrealis
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Re: Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Post by modus.irrealis »

Except that it should be middle ποιοῖτο. I don't think that τις here is the subject, though, but the god -- I think there would have to be an explicit τις

NateD26
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Re: Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Post by NateD26 »

modus.irrealis wrote:Except that it should be middle ποιοῖτο.
Thank you. The meaning of the active and middle of ποιῶ is pretty much the same though, right?
I have a similar problem translating the middle of λέγω in 23a: ὄνομα δὲ τοῦτο λέγεσθαι.
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modus.irrealis
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Re: Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Post by modus.irrealis »

Yes, ποιῶ in the active and the middle can have a similar meaning, but I don't believe they're interchangeable. Here I'm confident it should be middle just because of ποιούμενος :D.

I would say λέγεσθαι is passive there, "to be called by this name".

NateD26
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Re: Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Post by NateD26 »

modus.irrealis wrote:Yes, ποιῶ in the active and the middle can have a similar meaning, but I don't believe they're interchangeable. Here I'm confident it should be middle just because of ποιούμενος :D.
You right, modus. I should pay more attention. :)
modus.irrealis wrote:I would say λέγεσθαι is passive there, "to be called by this name".
Thanks. I'm getting tripped by passive constructions sometimes:
to call x y (active - double acc.); x is called y (passive - nom.)
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modus.irrealis
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Re: Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Post by modus.irrealis »

NateD26 wrote:Thanks. I'm getting tripped by passive constructions sometimes:
to call x y (active - double acc.); x is called y (passive - nom.)
Yes, although there are some verbs that keep the second accusative in the passive, depending on the meaning.

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