Obama=Cicero?

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Lex
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Re: Obama=Cicero?

Post by Lex » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:35 pm

Estoniacus Inoriginale wrote: Out of sheer interest I'd like to know about New World Order and social democracy... I am condused where the sarcasm ends or begins in this post of yours that I quoted. BTW, I am on a much more positive opinion of Obama that PeterD.
I was being a little sarcastic about the New World Order stuff, but other than that... I am not a fan of socialism, whether democratically chosen or not. Most people here have some idea what bread & circuses, debasing the currency, etc., did for the Roman Empire. I'm afraid socialism will lead to similar results for Western civilization, and I consider Obama to be a socialist (he would most definitely be called a social democrat were he a European politician), and so I am ... less than thrilled ... by Obama's election. I really do hope that Obama is a typically corrupt and cynical politician, and not a true believer in socialist ideology. I think that would be much better for the USA and the West in general, as it would mean that our descent into pure socialism (terrible economy ala the Soviet Union, government control of political discourse, no real personal freedom, etc.) would be slower. Think of Bill Clinton vs. Hillary Clinton. He was very socialist-leaning, but he was also a typically pragmatic (i.e. corrupt and cynical) politician, so we didn't get saddled with, for instance, a socialized medical system (to which I am opposed). If Hillary (more of a "true believer" than Bill, IMO) had been president instead of Bill, she quite possibly would have fought harder for socialized medicine, and won. So, from my point of view, cynical and corrupt is better than idealist, if the idealist is a socialist.

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thesaurus
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Re: Obama=Cicero?

Post by thesaurus » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:36 pm

And let's all tie this back to Cicero somehow, or at least write our posts in Ciceronian latin...

Quo usque tandem abutere, Blagojevich, patienta nostra? quamdiu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? quem ad findem sese effrenata iactabit audacia?

Seriously, these words have never seemed so apt. I actually think of "effrenata audacia" every time this guy opens his mouth.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute

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Re: Obama=Cicero?

Post by PeterD » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:12 pm

I think that would be much better for the USA and the West in general, as it would mean that our descent into pure socialism (terrible economy ala the Soviet Union, government control of political discourse, no real personal freedom, etc.) would be slower.
It was your country's descent into unfettered capitalism that got you into this terrible economic mess. It's "pure socialism" that's trying to get you out of it.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Blagojevich, patienta nostra? quamdiu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? quem ad findem sese effrenata iactabit audacia?

Seriously, these words have never seemed so apt. I actually think of "effrenata audacia" every time this guy opens his mouth.
Why is everyone freaking out over Blagojevich? Has he committed some ghastly crime? He didn't actually sell a senate seat. He simply thought about selling it. A good lawyer, if he can afford one, should easily get him an acquital. Btw, aren't most, if not all, political offices for sale?
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis

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Lex
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Re: Obama=Cicero?

Post by Lex » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:14 pm

PeterD wrote: It was your country's descent into unfettered capitalism that got you into this terrible economic mess. It's "pure socialism" that's trying to get you out of it.
That's just plain untrue. We've never had "unfettered capitalism", and, alas, aren't anywhere close to it now. The main causes of the credit crunch, as I see them, are the Community Restructuring Act which caused huge amounts of bad housing debt, and the Fed's inflationary policies. As for the so-called stimulus bill, more and more news is coming out every day about how it's nothing but pork, pork, pork. I heard today that $140 million is allocated to climate modelling. This is supposed to stimulate the economy how? Giving me that money would do more to stimulate the economy that spending it on eco-wacko flame fanning.

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Re: Obama=Cicero?

Post by PeterD » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:40 pm

That's just plain untrue.
Are you calling me a liar? :wink:
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis

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Lex
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Re: Obama=Cicero?

Post by Lex » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:57 pm

PeterD wrote:
That's just plain untrue.
Are you calling me a liar? :wink:
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and call you misinformed. :P

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thesaurus
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Re: Obama=Cicero?

Post by thesaurus » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:53 pm

Ne quis nugas serens hoc in filo diu deleret, solo latine graeceve est scribendum.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute

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Lex
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Re: Obama=Cicero?

Post by Lex » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:18 pm

thesaurus wrote:Ne quis nugas serens hoc in filo diu deleret, solo latine graeceve est scribendum.
Say what?

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Re: Obama=Cicero?

Post by PeterD » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:54 am

Lex wrote:
thesaurus wrote:Ne quis nugas serens hoc in filo diu deleret, solo latine graeceve est scribendum.
Say what?
ὁ θησαυρὸς εἶπε· "ἐνταῦθα μοῦνο Ἑλληνικὰ γράφουμεν."
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis

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Lex
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Re: Obama=Cicero?

Post by Lex » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:20 pm

If that says what I think it says, no way. I'm not nearly advanced enough to express my thoughts in Greek. Besides, this is the Open Board, not the Agora. It's supposed to be here so we can "chat about off-topic issues and get to know each other". What better way to get to know each other than by discussing politics? I've never agreed with the old canard that one shouldn't talk about religion or politics in polite company. That only eliminates about two thirds of everything there is that's interesting to talk about. Many of you here seem to me to be way too afraid of ... spirited ... political discourse. I agree, that thread that William locked got entirely out of control, but I, at least, am able to disagree strongly with others without popping a blood vessel in my head.

My opinion is, all ἔργα and no παιδιά make Ἀλέξανδρος a dull παῖς. There, that's about the best I can do right now.

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