ἡ μοῖÏ￾α declension

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Socrates the Cyborg
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ἡ μοῖÏ￾α declension

Post by Socrates the Cyborg » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:11 pm

again questioning the accent mark placement

μοῖÏ￾α μοῖÏ￾αι
μοῖÏ￾ᾱς μοῖÏ￾ων
μοῖÏ￾á¾³ μοῖÏ￾αις
μοῖÏ￾ᾰν μοῖÏ￾ᾱς
μοῖÏ￾á¾° μοῖÏ￾αι

modus.irrealis
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Post by modus.irrealis » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:45 pm

Two things to remember:

First there's the general accent rule that when the final syllable contains a long vowel or diphthong, you can't have a circumflex accent on the second-to-last syllable -- except that the final -αι doesn't count as long here.

Second with first declension nouns the genitive plural always has a circumflex accent on the final syllable.

So you get:

μοῖÏ￾α μοῖÏ￾αι
μοίÏ￾ᾱς μοιÏ￾ῶν
μοίÏ￾á¾³ μοίÏ￾αις
μοῖÏ￾ᾰν μοίÏ￾ᾱς
μοῖÏ￾á¾° μοῖÏ￾αι

Socrates the Cyborg
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Post by Socrates the Cyborg » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Thanks. Looks like I will have to take some time and review the basics of accenting again.

Bert
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Post by Bert » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:38 pm

modus.irrealis wrote:Two things to remember:

First there's the general accent rule that when the final syllable contains a long vowel or diphthong, you can't have a circumflex accent on the second-to-last syllable --

Does the circumflex always move to the last syllable in those cases or can it change to an acute and stay on the second last?

modus.irrealis
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Post by modus.irrealis » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:06 pm

Bert wrote:Does the circumflex always move to the last syllable in those cases or can it change to an acute and stay on the second last?

The way I think of it is that the general accent rule says it changes to an acute and anything else would be the result of some other more specific rule (because the noun belongs to a certain declension for example -- like here with the genitive plural).

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GreekGeek2
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Post by GreekGeek2 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:43 am

If the last vowel becomes long, the circumflex turns into an acute. Always, except for the gen. plural. This because the ending -ων was originally -άων (which you'll encounter a lot when reading Homer)(the acute on the alpha can't move further back because of the long ending), which contracted to -ῶν. This is of course only the case for feminine words of the first declension.
With other nouns, the accent stays on the same syllable (if possible). The biggest exception however is the gen. and dat. singular and plural from the third declension with words having a mono-syllablic stem. So:
πάτηÏ￾
πατÏ￾ός
πατÏ￾á½·
πάτεÏ￾α

πάτεÏ￾ες
πατεÏ￾ῶν
πατÏ￾ᾶσι
πάτεÏ￾ας
If I'm not mistaken.
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Swth\r
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Post by Swth\r » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:42 am

GreekGeek2 wrote: πάτηÏ￾ => πατήÏ￾
πατÏ￾ός
πατÏ￾á½·
πάτεÏ￾α => πατέÏ￾α
++ πάτεÏ￾ (vocative)

πάτεÏ￾ες => πατέÏ￾ες
πατεÏ￾ῶν => πατέÏ￾ων
πατÏ￾ᾶσι => πατÏ￾άσι
πάτεÏ￾ας =>πατέÏ￾ας
++πατέÏ￾ας (vocative)


GreekGeek2 wrote:If I'm not mistaken.


πατέÏ￾ων has not 2 syllables . Only πατÏ￾ός, πατÏ￾ί do :wink:
πατÏ￾άσι has the accented -α- short (For it is developed from πατÏ￾΄σι)

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Post by Swth\r » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:45 am

Swth\r wrote:
GreekGeek2 wrote: πάτηÏ￾ => πατήÏ￾
πατÏ￾ός
πατÏ￾á½·
πάτεÏ￾α => πατέÏ￾α
++ πάτεÏ￾ (vocative)

πάτεÏ￾ες => πατέÏ￾ες
πατεÏ￾ῶν => πατέÏ￾ων
πατÏ￾ᾶσι => πατÏ￾άσι
πάτεÏ￾ας =>πατέÏ￾ας
++πατέÏ￾ες (vocative) 8)


GreekGeek2 wrote:If I'm not mistaken.


πατέÏ￾ων has not 2 syllables . Only πατÏ￾ός, πατÏ￾ί do :wink:
πατÏ￾άσι has the accented -α- short (For it is developed from πατÏ￾΄σι)

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GreekGeek2
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Post by GreekGeek2 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:55 am

Okay, what was the use of that quote?
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Swth\r
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Post by Swth\r » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:23 pm

GreekGeek2 wrote:Okay, what was the use of that quote?


Sorry, I quoted myself by mistake... :oops: :oops:
Last edited by Swth\r on Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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GreekGeek2
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Post by GreekGeek2 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:29 pm

Ooh okay, I thought maybe you would like to agree with yourself or something :P
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Post by Swth\r » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:47 pm

GreekGeek2 wrote:Ooh okay, I thought maybe you would like to agree with yourself or something :P


Perhaps the only person I usually agree with... :lol: :lol: :lol:
But now I just remembered (and found out) what exactly that post ment to be... I have corrected the vocative plural into "πατέÏ￾ες" from "πατέÏ￾ας" this way, because for the EDIT function was not availiable... :D

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GreekGeek2
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Post by GreekGeek2 » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:26 pm

Okay, πάτεÏ￾ας does indeed strike me a little odd as vocative :P
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