Theos hn o logos: God, godly or divine?

Are you learning Koine Greek, the Greek of the New Testament and most other post-classical Greek texts? Whatever your level, use this forum to discuss all things Koine, Biblical or otherwise, including grammar, textbook talk, difficult passages, and more.
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JohnOneOne
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Post by JohnOneOne » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:05 pm

Talmid wrote:
Within your favorite translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, the "Old Testament," how have they chosen render and thus to show respect to YHWH, God's self designated, eternal Name?
JohnOneOne -

This is a loaded question for which there is no satisfactory answer as you are well aware. Your intention is to denigrate the integrity of my Bible, even though the matter has no bearing on our previos discussion of the inaccuracy of "Jehovah." In logic and formal debate, this is called a red-herring--namely, it seeks to thwart attention away from the discussion at hand much like a smelly red herring was used in the late 1800's to thwart the attention of dogs tracking a scent on a trail.

Unfortunately for you, I will not fall into your trap.

For your information though, my favorite text of the Old Testament is Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, 4th ed., which leaves the Tetragrammaton in its original Hebrew characters.
"Satisfactory" is not what I was looking for, this was a sincere attempt to acquire some legitimate information.

As for your "favorite text of the Old Testament," I am envious of you, as I wish I could read the Hebrew for myself. And yet, if you, on the other hand, do not use a "translation" of that text, then I guess this would better explain why you cannot answer my question; for, as you well know, the Hebrew for YHWH would already appear within the "Biblia Hebraica" some 7,000 times - as you said, "in its original Hebrew characters."

Interesting your mention of the "Biblia Hebraica," for it was the 7th, 8th & 9th editions of this work [BHK] that the Hebrew Scriptures ("Old Testament") portion of the New World Translation was prepared, including the 1977 edition in its use for the NWT 1984 Revision.

Just to finish, as regarding your statement that I have intentions "to denigrate the integrity of [your] Bible," you know as well as I do, if they have not given that Name its due honour, they have already done any of this 'denigrating' all by themselves, with no help from me.

Agape, Alan.
john1one@earthlink.net
http://www.goodcompanionbooks.com

Talmid
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Post by Talmid » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:11 pm

Just to finish, as regarding your statement that I have intentions "to denigrate the integrity of [your] Bible," you know as well as I do, if they have not given that Name its due honour, they have already done any of this 'denigrating' all by themselves, with no help from me.
I knew you could not resist to proceed with your red herring!

The matter still stands, however, that the NWT inserts the name "Jehovah" all over the Old and New Testament, for which the Greek has never known such a name.

JohnOneOne
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Post by JohnOneOne » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:30 pm

Talmid wrote:
Just to finish, as regarding your statement that I have intentions "to denigrate the integrity of [your] Bible," you know as well as I do, if they have not given that Name its due honour, they have already done any of this 'denigrating' all by themselves, with no help from me.
I knew you could not resist to proceed with your red herring!

The matter still stands, however, that the NWT inserts the name "Jehovah" all over the Old and New Testament, for which the Greek has never known such a name.
What you say is true, no "Greek" text of the "New Testament" known thus far contains that name [except for a form of it at Revelation 19:1, 3, 4 & 6], even where quotations from the "Old Testament" are made, from those places where, within the Hebrew or Greek Septuagint (during that period), YHWH certainly did appear. On the other hand, such a practice of rendering some form of that name into translations of the "New Testament" is certainly not without precedent.

For this, you may find the contents of the following websites of interest:

http://www.jehovah.to/exe/greek/yhwh.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/200406060427 ... m/yhwh.htm

Therefore, the mere fact that such precedent has been established as a very regular and common practice among most every foreign language Bible Translation society (even up till today) - that is, by doing the very same thing - should not preclude any done for the English language as well.

Agape, Alan.
john1one@earthlink.net
http://www.goodcompanionbooks.com

Talmid
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Post by Talmid » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:36 pm

Alan -

Thanks for sparring over the matter. I'm gonna have to call it quits for today so I can finish my rigorous final exam in Latin.

In closing, based upon your answers and links to WT sights, its obvious you are well aware of the problems associated with WT theology. They are always trying to cover up truth by lenghty articles of scholarship at a depth no average laymen could ever possibly understand. Do keep this in mind that God, Yahweh, will not let your willful sin go unpunished with hellfire and brimstone (cf. Mt 10:28).

These are just my final words given in love with hopes you will repent.

JohnOneOne
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Post by JohnOneOne » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:54 pm

Talmid wrote:Alan -

Thanks for sparring over the matter. I'm gonna have to call it quits for today so I can finish my rigorous final exam in Latin.

In closing, based upon your answers and links to WT sights, its obvious you are well aware of the problems associated with WT theology. They are always trying to cover up truth by lenghty articles of scholarship at a depth no average laymen could ever possibly understand. Do keep this in mind that God, Yahweh, will not let your willful sin go unpunished with hellfire and brimstone (cf. Mt 10:28).

These are just my final words given in love with hopes you will repent.
Thank you for your loving concern for my eternal welfare, that comes thru with your last words.

As an addition to my last post, another link which demonstrates the historical practice of using a form of the Divine Name of God, YHWH, within translations of the "New Testament," the following link should prove of interest (if not to you, perhaps to others looking on) -

http://web.archive.org/web/200406032232 ... m/jhvh.htm

As for you concern for my not being punished in "hellfire and brimstone," the following link may shed some light on that "hot" topic:

http://web.archive.org/web/200406031438 ... m/hell.htm

Again, I thank you for the opportunity to cover many of these very important topics - if not to your benefit, perhaps to the satisfaction of others looking on.

I wish you well with your studies and exam on Latin.

Agape, Alan.
john1one@earthlink.net
http://www.goodcompanionbooks.com
[By the way, the vast majority of the links I provided were not "W[atch]T[ower]" sites, only those of other Christian witnesses of Jehovah, those who, like me, have an interest in dispelling false notions/information about who and what Jehovah's Witnesses are really all about.]

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Kopio
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Post by Kopio » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:51 pm

Bert wrote:There is no hope of it now. The new writer has the name of the verse itself.
In advance my apology for adding to it. It is frustrating to see someone slinging around scripture verses as pretext for a prooftext.
Ahhhh, but there is hope of it...which is exactly what I am going to do. This thread has long been a thorn in my side, fi quite some time ago it became far less about Greek and far more about one's own theological presuppositions. I suppose what really irks me is people who come to this site for nothing other than weighing in their "insight" on the Greek text of John 1:1, but then have no other "insight" to share on virtually any other Greek text.

Therefore, THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED! Any attempt to revive it under a new thread will similiarly be quashed. The point of the Koine board is not to extensively argue theology, rather it is to, in a scholarly manner discuss the nuances of the Greek language. I will not put up with any more propaganda here.

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