JWW excercises 133 and 143

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Hammurabi
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JWW excercises 133 and 143

Post by Hammurabi » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:39 am

Hi I need a correction for these excercises! :D :) :oops:

133.
the road was impassable.
1. ἡ ?δὸς ἄπο?ος ἦν.
Cyrus did not send provisions to the garrison.
2. ο?κ ἔπεμψε ? Κύ?ος τὰ ?πιτήδεια τῇ φυλακῇ.
they will lead the men to the strongholds.
3. τοῖς χω?ία ἰσχῡ?ὰ τοὺς ἀνθ?ώπους ἀξουσιν.
the hoplites were good and faithful soldiers.
4. ἀγαθοὶ καὶ πιστοί στ?ατιῶται οἱ ?πλῖται ἦσαν.
it was right for Cyrus to send gifts to his soldiers.
5. ἄξιον ἦν τῷ Κύ?ῳ πέμπειν δῶ?α τοῖς στ?ατιώταις.

143.
we shall collect allies for our friends.
1. συμάχους τοῖς φίλοις ἀθ?οίσουσιν.
he has hounted wild beast on horseback.
2. θη?ία ἀπὸ ἵππου τεθέ?ευκε.
the messenger will sacrifice to the gods.
3. τοῖς θεοῖς ? ἄγγελος θύσει.
I have commanded the soldiers to plounder the wagons.
4. τοὺς στ?ατιώτᾱς ??πάζειν τοὺς ἀμάξᾱς κεκέλευα.
Cyrus sends the general a letter.
5. Κύ?ος τῷ στ?ατηγὸς ?πιστολὴν πέμπει.


Thanx very much in advance :shock: :D :oops:
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Re: JWW excercises 133 and 143

Post by spiphany » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:32 pm

Looks pretty good to me, although your word order seems a bit odd to me sometimes. You might pay a bit more attention to noun endings; several times I think you simply forgot to change them. You seem to understand the concepts quite well--I don't think that's the reason for the mistakes.
133 #3 Check your endings on this: τοῖς χω?ία ἰσχῡ?ὰ
143 #4 I think you forgot a kappa here: κεκέλευκα.
143 #5 Check you endings on this: τῷ στ?ατηγὸς
IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)

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Hammurabi
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Post by Hammurabi » Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:01 pm

My bad!
I didnt realize about those endings thanx very much.. here they are corrected. I guess.:oops:

133 #3. τοῖς χω?ίοις ἰσχῡ?οῖς τοὺς ἀνθ?ώπους ἀξουσιν.
143. #4 τοὺς στ?ατιώτᾱς ??πάζειν τοὺς ἀμάξᾱς κεκέλευκα.
143. #5 Κύ?ος τῷ στ?ατηγᾣ ?πιστολὴν πέμπει.

about the words order, could you please tell me where and why it is not
totally "greek"?? :oops: :oops: :shock:
'cause I'm really having some trouble with that and I would like to correct it
right now before it gets an habitude.

:) :D 8) Thanx very much in advance.
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Post by spiphany » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:24 am


IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)

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Post by annis » Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:48 pm


William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

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Post by Bert » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:51 pm



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Post by annis » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:10 am


William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

Bert
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Post by Bert » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:08 am



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Post by chad » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:48 am

i just saw this, i hardly have time to check out textkit anymore, but i give a ref for this (final word emphasised in prose) at the top of page 10 here:

http://www.freewebs.com/mhninaeide/Ilia ... xt2006.pdf

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Post by annis » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:07 pm

chad wrote:i just saw this, i hardly have time to check out textkit anymore, but i give a ref for this (final word emphasised in prose) at the top of page 10 here:
Denniston?! That makes me even more suspicious.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

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Post by chad » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:21 pm

hi will, well denniston has said X, what makes you say X is wrong?

(apart from the fact that X was said by your favourite classicist) :)

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Post by annis » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:30 pm

chad wrote:hi will, well denniston has said X, what makes you say X is wrong?
Not at all, but his track record in terms of actual linguistic insight is, in my opinion, very poor. When he's the only reference, extra checking is required. :)
(apart from the fact that X was said by your favourite classicist) :)
Who said what where?
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

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Post by Bert » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:21 am

With the help of a B-Greek member I've found one discussion concerning emphasis in the Greek sentence. Here follows a link to part of the B-Greek archives.
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-gr ... html#22815
Towards the bottom of the page, (14th from the bottom) is the first post of a thread called; John 14:6 fronting
Three or four replies follow.
( I don't know Denniston, whose opinion seems suspect to William, but I have high regard for the opinion of both Iver Larsen and Carl Conrad, who btw hold somewhat opposing positions.)

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Post by annis » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:37 am


William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

Bert
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Post by Bert » Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:55 pm

Carl W. Conrad and Chet Creider have given some additional thoughts.
See Final Word Emphasis on the following page.

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-gr ... /date.html

Chet mentions Gal. 2:20 which seems indeed to emphasize ?γώ and Χ?ιστός. Both are final words in there respective clauses.

I just found out from Carl Conrad's post that he did a dissertation on word order.
This is a very interesting topic and obviously there is no shame in disagreeing. The sholars do! :)

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Post by annis » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:36 am


William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

Bert
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Post by Bert » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:40 am



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Post by annis » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:33 pm

Bert wrote:Is topicalizing the same as emphasizing?
No. Here I use the term just to mean that the verb has been shifted out of its usual spot into the topic position. The topic simply acts to signal to listeners what the coming comment is about, and I don't think that's usually going to be emphasized.
William, don't misunderstand me. I am not disagreeing with what you are saying. I am just trying to learn, but this topic may be out of my league yet.
And I'm doing a very poor job of explaining it.

I've emailed Prof. Dik to see if she happens to have handouts for talks she might give on her word order work that I could use to produce a summary. In any case, I'm going to leave this post alone for a while and work up an overview of Dik's book — including better explanations of the technical vocabulary — with some more examples. That'll be more useful than me dribbling out bits and pieces of the theory.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

Bert
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Post by Bert » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:04 am

Thanks for the discussion so far.
I hope you are successful writing a summary. I would probably get more use out of a summary with examples than out of reading the book.

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