Questions from Lesson I to Lesson IX.

Are you learning Latin with D'Ooge's Beginners Latin Book? Here's where you can meet other learners using this textbook. Use this board to ask questions and post your work for feedback and comments from others.
Post Reply
bizzaroSquirrel
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:43 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Questions from Lesson I to Lesson IX.

Post by bizzaroSquirrel » Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:54 am

Hi guys,

After a few failed attempts using Wheelocks, I downloaded D'Ooge and I'm finding Latin much easier (I'll use wheelocks for my backup book), however there are a few things that have stumped me over the excercises.

First up, wtf does § stand for? Paragraph, line, point?

Ok, the real questions (the page number refers to the LFB page, not the PDF page).


§39, page 19

11. Nautae victoriam Galba nuntiat.
My translation: Galba is announcing the victory to the sailors.
Key: Galba is announcing the sailor’s victory.

Hmm, didn’t notice this before, but is nautae in genitive and not dative because its before victoriam, the direct object?


§62, page 26

I 2. Bona filia agricolae cenam parat.
My translation: The food daughter prepares the farmer’s dinner, or, dinner for the farmer.
Key: The farmer’s good daughter prepares dinner.

Yeah I know, 2 strikes. Now I think the first part is incorrect because of the placement of agricolae after filia? But why couldn’t it also be in the dative? It’s placed before the direct object....


§62, page 26

I 3. Cena est grata agricolae et agricola bonam filiam laudat.
My translation: Dinner is pleasing to the farmer and the farmer praises the good daughter.
Key: It’s the same, but “his good daughterâ€￾.

Where does “hisâ€￾ come from? Is there something specific in the latin or is it just that this is more logical when translated to English? :D


The problems in the next two sentences are similar.
§62, page 27
II 4. (His) daughter is getting a good dinner for the farmer.
My translation: Filia agricolae cenam bonam parat.
Key: Same, but cenam and bonam have switched positions.

Doesn’t the adjective follow the noun??


§62, page 27
II 6. The farmer praises the good dinner..
My translation: Agricolae cenam bonam laudat.
Key: cenam and bonam switched positions.

Same thing.


I’m up to the 2nd declension so I thought I'd sort all these out incase i start learning something the wrong way...

Holy crap that was a long post, thanks a heap if anyone can help.

Well, onto the second declension... 8) heh
James

Celtica
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:05 am

Post by Celtica » Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:52 am

I seem to be working one lesson behind you at the moment, and my main problem is with ordering of words, according to the key. I sometimes switch 2 words around. Seems to be a common mistake when in the early stages of learning Latin.

On 62, page 26, IIRC it was explained somewhere earlier on...I think it mentioned the page # it was explained on in a note. Double check the text. It's so easy to miss something. I usually reread the lesson several times before attempting the exercises.

User avatar
Andrus
Textkit Member
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:50 pm
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Post by Andrus » Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:20 am

Saluēte,

Bizz wrote:§39, page 19

11. Nautae victoriam Galba nuntiat.
My translation: Galba is announcing the victory to the sailors.
Key: Galba is announcing the sailor’s victory.

Hmm, didn’t notice this before, but is nautae in genitive and not dative because its before victoriam, the direct object?


I think here it is 47, page 21 and not the reference you give.

Word order can only give emphatic and never (to my knowledge) meaning of the phrase.

So how do we know that Nautae is in genitive and not in dative? If we had only this phrase then both meanings could be taken. But this phrase is answering the phrase:

“Cuius victÅ￾riam Galba nÅ«ntiat?â€￾

Cuius is the interrogative pronoun in the genitive so it is asking
“Whose vitcoria is Galga annunciating?â€￾
And so the Nautae is in the genitive.
If the question was:
“Cui victÅ￾riam Galba nÅ«ntiat?â€￾
Then it would be asking “To whom is Galba annunciating the Victoria?â€￾ and then Nautae would be in dative.

Bizz wrote:§62, page 26

I 2. Bona filia agricolae cenam parat.
My translation: The food daughter prepares the farmer’s dinner, or, dinner for the farmer.
Key: The farmer’s good daughter prepares dinner.

Yeah I know, 2 strikes. Now I think the first part is incorrect because of the placement of agricolae after filia? But why couldn’t it also be in the dative? It’s placed before the direct object....


Once more forget word order to reach meaning. But here I don’t see any reason why both means could be taken, unless parÄ￾re doesn’t take indirect object.

Bizz wrote:§62, page 26

I 3. Cena est grata agricolae et agricola bonam filiam laudat.
My translation: Dinner is pleasing to the farmer and the farmer praises the good daughter.
Key: It’s the same, but “his good daughterâ€￾.

Where does “hisâ€￾ come from? Is there something specific in the latin or is it just that this is more logical when translated to English?


“hisâ€￾ and other words aren’t written in Latin if they are “obviousâ€￾ from contex. I don’t remember where in the book it is stated but I know it is.

I also think you are giving to much importance to word order, as I have told as a rule word order can’t give the meaning of a phrase.

So my advice to you and to Celtica is to don’t think so hard on word order. I too have many times reached a word order different of the given in the key, and unless it is the lesson about word order I don’t mind too much. Try to mimic the word order of the Latin texts given within the book more then the given in the key.

Hope this helps,

Andrus
Last edited by Andrus on Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

bizzaroSquirrel
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:43 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by bizzaroSquirrel » Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:30 pm

Hi guys,

Celtica
I seem to be working one lesson behind you at the moment

Sweet. I don't know about you, but I feel like I have come so far by learning the first declension, heh.

and my main problem is with ordering of words, according to the key.

Yeah I know, and what trips me out more is the number of times that I hear latin is much more free in word order, and that I might consider my answers wrong when they are perfectly fine. :x


Andrus
I think here it is 47, page 21 and not the reference you give.

Ah yes, you're right, I don't even know how I managed that reference.

I thought it might have had something to do with that after I looked at the key, but thought I'd ask anyway. Thanks for clearing that up.

“hisâ€￾ and other words aren’t written in Latin if they are “obviousâ€￾ from contex.

Yeah I read that shortly after I posted :oops:


Well they were probably too easy to justify a post, next time i'll make them harder :wink:
Thanks for the replies.

Cheers,
James

User avatar
fierywrath
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Questions from Lesson I to Lesson IX.

Post by fierywrath » Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:35 pm

bizzaroSquirrel wrote:First up, wtf does § stand for? Paragraph, line, point?

SECTION, DUH!
phpbb

ingrid70
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:29 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post by ingrid70 » Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:08 pm

Hi James et al.

First of all: the key is the work of students, like yourself. It is by no means perfect, and if your answer is different from the key, it is recommended that you go back to the Latin, and see which is wrong, or if both answers could be right (or wrong :) ). Often, with single sentences without context, different readings are possible.

If you're in doubt, ask your question here.

As to word order: Latin is rather free, and if your answer switches two words around as compared to the key, it's fine. No difference in meaning, perhaps in emphasis,as Andrus points out.

Good luck with your studies,
Ingrid

Post Reply