Why?
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Why?
Some of the more fiery recent debates have danced slightly around why we even bother to study these languages. I'm curious to see what sort of reasons other people have.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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I expect that will be common.Adelheid wrote:So two reasons.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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I answered "to study history", but it is really because, well, I just want to! As Sir Edmund Hillary said about climbing Mt Everest, "because it's there". To extremely rude people who sneeringly ask why I bother, it's because I can!
To my long suffering partner, it's because it gives him peace and quiet and a chance to watch the car and motorbike races as long as he likes on TV (because my attention is elsewhere!).
To my long suffering partner, it's because it gives him peace and quiet and a chance to watch the car and motorbike races as long as he likes on TV (because my attention is elsewhere!).
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Because I WANT to! There's lots I CAN do... but do not WANT to...Carola wrote:To extremely rude people who sneeringly ask why I bother, it's because I can!
A collegue asked me, when he heard I was reading Homer: "What do you get out of it?" Money-wise, that's what was intended.
Well, nothing. And who cares? I don't.
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When I say "because I can" I am returning the rude remark with another sneer - I can and they couldn't! But I am not usually so unpleasant to people (no, really! ) .
Most of my friends take a real interest in my studies, especially with so many movies like "Troy" and "Alexander" and lots of programs about ancient history on TV - I sometimes feel like a walking guidebook to ancient Romans and Greeks!
You also need to keep the brain cells working just as much as you need physical exercise. Perhaps you could even combine the two and power walk while chanting conjugations.
Most of my friends take a real interest in my studies, especially with so many movies like "Troy" and "Alexander" and lots of programs about ancient history on TV - I sometimes feel like a walking guidebook to ancient Romans and Greeks!
You also need to keep the brain cells working just as much as you need physical exercise. Perhaps you could even combine the two and power walk while chanting conjugations.
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I study Greek because, once I have a solid grasp on the Greek Language, I want to bear the fruits of my labour to the theatre community. I consider this a form of "to study/read literature", and that is how I voted.
However, I have only gotten this far because I have a general interest in linguistics and I enjoy the ride.
However, I have only gotten this far because I have a general interest in linguistics and I enjoy the ride.
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I started learning latin because of my nose (Ive been told that it's quite Roman ). Kidding. I started learning on a whim, I wanted to learn a language.. a real language, because, back then, I studied Qenya and Sindarin (Tolkien's invented languages, o non-Tolkienites) I know... But they got me into linguistics and poetry..
Have a fun Xmas break! (mine starts today )
Have a fun Xmas break! (mine starts today )
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Deudeditus wrote: I studied Qenya and Sindarin (Tolkien's invented languages, o non-Tolkienites)
Suilaid!
I study the high-elven language myself. Quenya is soooooo gorgeous...
Honestly I started having an real interest in languages because Tolkien was a philologist, and I wanted to know what my hero taught and was so interested in. I've been hooked on old and/or weird langauges ever since.
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I heard that Tolkein was so skilled in Greek that he even took part in school debates - all in Greek! Apparently he was just brilliant at both Latin and Greek.Fabiola wrote: [
I study the high-elven language myself. Quenya is soooooo gorgeous...
Honestly I started having an real interest in languages because Tolkien was a philologist, and I wanted to know what my hero taught and was so interested in. I've been hooked on old and/or weird langauges ever since.
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Ok....I put down "for religious reasons" for studying Greek. Because that was why I initially wanted to learn the language....to study the NT in it's original tongue. BUT (it really is a big but) I also always had in the back of my mind that once I learned NT Greek, I could go on to study Classical Greek and dig into the incredible wealth of the language and literature....which is exactly what I have done!
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I'm come from china ,now,living in beijing.I love greek,because I think the ancient greece is one of the most great age of humanity.But the most important reason is philosophy and I put down philosophy.
Sorry,my english is poor.There's must be some mistakes of grammar in my sentences.howbeit i will stick to learn greek by english book.
Sorry,my english is poor.There's must be some mistakes of grammar in my sentences.howbeit i will stick to learn greek by english book.
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This is no cause for shame! This was the foundation of my initial interest in linguistics - I wanted more interesting grammatical features to pillage for my own constructions.Deudeditus wrote:II started learning on a whim, I wanted to learn a language.. a real language, because, back then, I studied Qenya and Sindarin (Tolkien's invented languages, o non-Tolkienites)
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Have you looked at Gothic yet?Fabiola wrote:Honestly I started having an real interest in languages because Tolkien was a philologist, and I wanted to know what my hero taught and was so interested in. I've been hooked on old and/or weird langauges ever since.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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It's interesting to me that the "for fun" option has consistently accounted for just under half the replies.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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I submitted for fun mostly because I dont do this for either school or carreer. Also because
I'd be doing the history, philosophy and literature part of it for fun as well.
Might not humanism have been a choice in this vote as well? That's primarily why I started.
I wanted to look into its origins and then only later got my foot stuck in philhellenism.
Cheers
Rich
I'd be doing the history, philosophy and literature part of it for fun as well.
Might not humanism have been a choice in this vote as well? That's primarily why I started.
I wanted to look into its origins and then only later got my foot stuck in philhellenism.
Cheers
Rich
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Re: Why?
I study Latin in order to ward off the senility.
I'm not sure it's working.
Partly it's a way to escape the day's news, which is sometimes quite depressing. It's a way of putting the modern world into perspective. Things which seem awfully important to us now are just not part of ancient life.
I'm not sure it's working.
Partly it's a way to escape the day's news, which is sometimes quite depressing. It's a way of putting the modern world into perspective. Things which seem awfully important to us now are just not part of ancient life.
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- Lucus Eques
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Viuat Tolkien! Quenya was also my window to Latin, and got me into this whole language thing. If it wasn't for Tolkien I'd be a science major by now! damn fine guy.Fabiola wrote:Deudeditus wrote: I studied Qenya and Sindarin (Tolkien's invented languages, o non-Tolkienites)
Suilaid!
I study the high-elven language myself. Quenya is soooooo gorgeous...
Honestly I started having an real interest in languages because Tolkien was a philologist, and I wanted to know what my hero taught and was so interested in. I've been hooked on old and/or weird langauges ever since.
After I learn Greek, I'll have to get back to Quenya, and I hope the rest of you will be around so we can start a study group or something. Hah! Imagine a Quenya board at Textkit!
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To graduate, I need two years of a modern language and two years of a classical one. I had fulfilled my French obligations and had the choice between Greek and Latin, which wasn't much of a choice at all. Latin strikes me as ugly, clumsy, dismal, and off-putting (I've never been much of a fan of the Romance languages either, excepting French), not to mention awfully mundane. I also didn't want to stay in just the one language group; I wanted a non-Romance language, and I preferred Greek aesthetically anyway (seemed richer and livelier, with a skip in its step but still very smooth and pleasant to the ear). It has a reputation of being far more complicated and difficult, but I had no doubts that I could learn it and figured that if I got through the hard one first, Latin would be a comparative snap should I ever decide to study it (I will). And it doesn't hurt that Latin learners are (where I live) seen as dweebs, but students of Greek are seen as intellectual giants . Dunno where the stereotypes come from (maybe it's the alphabet (that takes all of two days to learn to read and write)), but that's the way the world is as I know it, at least.
As it turns out, two big things have resulted from my studies:
1) My interest in etymology has evolved into a full-fledged interest in Indo-Europeanism now that I have three different families (Germanic, Italio-Romance, Hellenic) to compare, and now that I have a textbook that explains Greek forms and their evolution from prehistoric/pre-Homeric ones; and I've grown a sharper sense for phonology and ablaut, that kind of stuff, which can uncover cognates that you never knew existed;
2) I've fallen in love with Greek; that is, what goes on in your head. Linguistic pleasure gives a tingling sensation in my head (like good poetry or a witty turn or even a pleasing cadence) and Greek makes my head tingle a lot.
So I went with "the intrinsic worth of knowing amo, amas, amat/ho, he, to" or however it's phrased -- that is, the sheer pleasure that a series of meaningful sounds can bring to that part of the brain that gets tickled. It also helps you know your own language better; much as using two texts is better than using one, knowing two grammars is better than knowing one. It's the same thing, just a different angle on it, and that different angle can make an exponential difference. There's no exact equivalent to "ho, he, to" in English, for example; you have to grasp a new concept (I've been thinking a lot about pronouns lately, just while driving or doing some mundane task). Everyone deserves that pleasure of floating in a new language free of English's restraints (or floating in conceptual grammar, free of language entirely)... so yeah, that's why I put that everyone should know "ho, he, to".
As it turns out, two big things have resulted from my studies:
1) My interest in etymology has evolved into a full-fledged interest in Indo-Europeanism now that I have three different families (Germanic, Italio-Romance, Hellenic) to compare, and now that I have a textbook that explains Greek forms and their evolution from prehistoric/pre-Homeric ones; and I've grown a sharper sense for phonology and ablaut, that kind of stuff, which can uncover cognates that you never knew existed;
2) I've fallen in love with Greek; that is, what goes on in your head. Linguistic pleasure gives a tingling sensation in my head (like good poetry or a witty turn or even a pleasing cadence) and Greek makes my head tingle a lot.
So I went with "the intrinsic worth of knowing amo, amas, amat/ho, he, to" or however it's phrased -- that is, the sheer pleasure that a series of meaningful sounds can bring to that part of the brain that gets tickled. It also helps you know your own language better; much as using two texts is better than using one, knowing two grammars is better than knowing one. It's the same thing, just a different angle on it, and that different angle can make an exponential difference. There's no exact equivalent to "ho, he, to" in English, for example; you have to grasp a new concept (I've been thinking a lot about pronouns lately, just while driving or doing some mundane task). Everyone deserves that pleasure of floating in a new language free of English's restraints (or floating in conceptual grammar, free of language entirely)... so yeah, that's why I put that everyone should know "ho, he, to".
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Not yet. Isn't Gothic a derivative of High German? I should look into it over the break.annis wrote:Have you looked at Gothic yet?Fabiola wrote:Honestly I started having an real interest in languages because Tolkien was a philologist, and I wanted to know what my hero taught and was so interested in. I've been hooked on old and/or weird langauges ever since.
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Haha, a Quenya board would be quite cool here. In the meantime though, http://lotrplaza.com has a good language section on their forums.Lucus Eques wrote:
Viuat Tolkien! Quenya was also my window to Latin, and got me into this whole language thing. If it wasn't for Tolkien I'd be a science major by now! damn fine guy.
After I learn Greek, I'll have to get back to Quenya, and I hope the rest of you will be around so we can start a study group or something. Hah! Imagine a Quenya board at Textkit!
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On the contrary, it is the oldest Germanic language which we have any kind of corpus for. It is the only attested language of the so-called East Germanic language family - with the Scandinavian languages being North Germanic, and German/Dutch/English as the West Germanic languages.Fabiola wrote: Isn't Gothic a derivative of High German? I should look into it over the break.
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Anyone interested in this might want go to their library to check out a book called Old English and Its Closest Relatives: A Survey of the Earliest Germanic Languages by Orrin W. RobinsonFabiola wrote: Not yet. Isn't Gothic a derivative of High German? I should look into it over the break.
It is a comparative survey of the ancient Germanic languages including English, Old Norse, Old Frisian, Old Low Franconian, Gothic, Old High German and others. Not nearly as dry as it might sound. Highly recommended to anyone interested in the Indo-European language family and would likely be eye-opening for those who haven't delved into the cousins of Latin and Greek.
Charles
Last edited by CharlesH on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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oops- I guess I got it backwards.GlottalGreekGeek wrote:
On the contrary, it is the oldest Germanic language which we have any kind of corpus for. It is the only attested language of the so-called East Germanic language family - with the Scandinavian languages being North Germanic, and German/Dutch/English as the West Germanic languages.
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- Deudeditus
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when I first started learning latin, I created a language which was going to be the latin of a world which i had created. (I've made, partially, about 4 or 5 so far, taking from Finnish, Anglo-Saxon, Latin, Old Norse, Gaelic, and Tolkien) most of them come from a single, fake, proto-language of mine...annis wrote: I wanted more interesting grammatical features to pillage for my own constructions.
I'm still waiting to learn Anglo-Saxon, it holds a special place in my heart (among others), not just because of Tolkien, though I daresay it is because of him that I ever knew of AS. Just something about speaking the language that my ancestors spoke hundreds of years ago...
Fabiola, lotrplaza rocks!
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Studying literature could probably be considered the central focus of my life, seeing that I arrange my affairs with the idea of creating more reading time; but this can hardly be seperated from the idea of fun! When I decided to try to read another language, I made a list of languages in which I was interested, and also of the books I wanted to read for each one. I was very surprised that Greek was by far the biggest list. It is really only since tackling Greek and discovering a very different language that I've become interested in grammar and linguistics. And I'm realizing how valuable Greek can be for my own writing and understanding of English words.
~N
~N
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got to go with 'fun'.
right now I have little time because of all that damned work they give us to do at uni, but when I'm really stressed out I just take my copy of the Odyssey and go down to the lounge and just read a few pages. I'm probably not learning much greek that way really, but I think it helps me not to forget it all by just reading some of it even if I don't understand every word I'm reading.
I've not read or translated any latin in ages though, I wonder if I would though if I had a book that really interested me like the Odyssey does. Then I might actually be tempted to pick it up and read some latin
right now I have little time because of all that damned work they give us to do at uni, but when I'm really stressed out I just take my copy of the Odyssey and go down to the lounge and just read a few pages. I'm probably not learning much greek that way really, but I think it helps me not to forget it all by just reading some of it even if I don't understand every word I'm reading.
I've not read or translated any latin in ages though, I wonder if I would though if I had a book that really interested me like the Odyssey does. Then I might actually be tempted to pick it up and read some latin