Stanley Lombardo Reads Iliad Book I

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swiftnicholas
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Stanley Lombardo Reads Iliad Book I

Post by swiftnicholas » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:27 pm

I was hoping that somebody could comment on the accuracy of Stanley Lombardo's reading of Iliad Book One. Should I use it to study the Homeric line, or would it promote bad habits? Are there other/better readings available online? Are there any readings that can be downloaded?

Thanks. :D

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Re: Stanley Lombardo Reads Iliad Book I

Post by annis » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:18 pm

swiftnicholas wrote:I was hoping that somebody could comment on the accuracy of Stanley Lombardo's reading of Iliad Book One.
The Muses weep!

However, this is a fairly conventional recitation, mostly Erasmian pronunciation, and the obligatory mystery-reshuffle of accenting.
Should I use it to study the Homeric line, or would it promote bad habits? Are there other/better readings available online? Are there any readings that can be downloaded?
Well, this is quite good on reconstructed ancient pronunciation. I think the rhythm is quite good and probably not far off what was intended, but I'm much less sure about the plainchant stylings.

Daitz has some Homeric recitations online, which also work to get the reconstructed pronunciation correct, but whose recitation style is, I feel, overwrought.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

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Post by Eureka » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:19 pm

He uses a stress accent, rather than a pitch accent, he also seems to say [face=SPIonic]ou0lomenei/n[/face] rather than [face=SPIonic]ou0lome/nhn[/face], and he probably pauses for too long after "[face=SPIonic]ou0lomenei/n[/face]".

Here's a better one, I think:
http://www.oeaw.ac.at/kal/agp/
http://www.oeaw.ac.at/kal/sh/


EDIT: We keep posting simultaneously, William. :)

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Re: Stanley Lombardo Reads Iliad Book I

Post by Eureka » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:29 pm

annis wrote:Daitz has some Homeric recitations online, which also work to get the reconstructed pronunciation correct, but whose recitation style is, I feel, overwrought.
It seems there's an unfortunate tendency to overdo it.

Exhibit A:

http://www.rhapsodes.fll.vt.edu/iliad1.htm

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Thanks

Post by swiftnicholas » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:07 pm

Thanks for the information! I was so excited to find that the files you hyperlinked are downloadable: I don't have access to the internet at home, and this way I can put them on my mp3 player, and read along at my leisure. You can't do that on Lombardo's website. I can't wait to listen to them.

Has anybody here considered posting sound files of themselves reading? It would be very useful if somebody qualified were to do that.

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Question about Danek/Hagel Reading

Post by swiftnicholas » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:31 pm

I'm having great fun with these audio files already. A question though about the Danek/Hagel reading: Does the mp3 file actually start at Od. 8.267? It doesn't seem to correspond to my text, but it must be in Book 8 somewhere, right? It sounded very odd at first, but after a few listenings, the music was impressed in my head.

I'm about to listen to the Avery Andrews readings now; although I was able to download them to my computer, I couldn't put them on my mp3 player, which is disappointing and curious. Is his version very different from Danek/Hagel, or is it primarily the difference between singing and reciting?

I'd love to hear comments about the various recordings, or about your personal experience trying to read the Homeric line.

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Post by chad » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:59 am

hi swiftnicholas, stefan hagel emailed me the following explanation of this in 2002 (for the realplayer clip):
You're perfectly right, that's not the Odyssee...
In the Odyssee, the poet Homer introduces the song of the fictive
singer-poet by "but he, playing the phorminx, preluded to sing
beautifully, about the love of...". In the following, the indirect speech
is shifted to something like full quotation, or replaced by direct
narration. I wanted to use the lay of Ares and Aphrodite as a song
taken out of its context in the Odyssee, so I have changed the first
line to a typical opening, with an invocation of the Muse:

a)/rxeo Mou=sa ge/lwtos o(\s a)qana/toisin e)nw=rto

Begin, Muse, of the laughter that rose among the undying
and for the mp3 clip, a different last word:
a)/rxeo Mou=sa ge/lwtos o(\s a)qana/toisin e)tu/xqh
re my own experience of reciting homer, a long time ago i tried to model the same information which danek/hagel used to recite homer; they used a 4-tone scale corresponding to the old phorminx whereas i used a more common 7-tone scale (common for string instruments anyway)... it's in a .pdf here:

http://iliad.envy.nu [Iliad 1 (reconstructed pronunciation)]

i'm not sure about some of my previous conclusions though, if i looked at it again now there are many things i'd change and correct.

hope that helps :)

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Post by Eureka » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:15 am

Hey Chad,

I’d taken your reconstructed Iliad and translated the first 10 lines it into sheet music. One thing that’s clear is that it has a certain musical melody to it; which is a good sign if you reconstructed it through a purely etymological method (without adjusting for pleasantness).

If your pitch were truely inaccurate, it would be unlikely to form a melody by pure chance.

So, it seems that it probably has at the least a recognisable correlation to the original pitch and melody.

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Post by swiftnicholas » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:56 pm

Thanks so much Chad! That does clear up the confusion perfectly. I wish he had posted that information on the website beside the audio clips.

And thanks for the link to your site. I'm only just starting to explore Homeric recitation, and I found your scales for the beginning of the Iliad and Sappho extremely helpful. Have you ever considered recording a recitation and posting it? :D

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Post by Eureka » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:38 am

Chad, I’d like to ask a few questions about your reconstructed pitch.


Is the pitch, as determined, an exact, or general, guide? In other words, is it intended that the singer’s pitch be in the general region of the indicated pitch at all times, or should the singer always be at the marked pitch?

Did you choose to use a 7 note system more or less arbitrarily? (Because if so, and the ancient bards used a different number of notes, we would expect a small proportion of the syllables to be off by a single pitch.)



Great work, by the way. The Iliad without the music might as well be prose with an odd sentence order. :)

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