Re-Election..

Textkit is a learning community- introduce yourself here. Use the Open Board to introduce yourself, chat about off-topic issues and get to know each other.
Post Reply
classicalclarinet
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 400
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:27 am
Location: Anc, AK, USA

Re-Election..

Post by classicalclarinet »

Nonwithstanding the Ohioan provisional ballots (which I don't think will boost Kerry) seems like Bush won.. he even won the popular vote majority, so I can't argue.. :|

I guess I'll slink back to my chair, not read papers for a while and nurse my ego back to health... heck, even the senate Republican Majority grew bigger...

Perhaps in coming years things will change.. :cry:

Of course, you Bush Fans oughta be real happy. :wink:

Episcopus
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 8:57 pm

Post by Episcopus »

Why do you wink to the Bush fans that takes out the post LOSER reflection tone which was effective. If it was a hateful wink I retract my advice for a retraction thereof.

Emma_85
Global Moderator
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: London

Post by Emma_85 »

He's definatley won, Kerry's just conceded. 4 more years of Bush :? ... OMG...

Democritus
Textkit Fan
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 12:14 am
Location: California

Post by Democritus »

Emma_85 wrote:He's definatley won, Kerry's just conceded. 4 more years of Bush :? ... OMG...

Image

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/

EmptyMan
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:48 am
Location: Augusta, Georgia

Post by EmptyMan »

I don't know what to think about Bush's win. I am socially conservative but economically liberal. I agree with his stance on stem-cell research, and the Iraq and Afghan wars, but his tax cuts scare me. Where the heck is my party? :?

classicalclarinet
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 400
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:27 am
Location: Anc, AK, USA

Post by classicalclarinet »

Where mine is...

User avatar
klewlis
Global Moderator
Posts: 1668
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Contact:

Post by klewlis »

I guess I don't really care too much cuz as long as NAFTA is still in place, Canada gets screwed regardless of who is in office in the US. :)

although I do feel his effects on the world at large, and for that I am dismayed.

anyway, the REAL question is:
who watched Jon Stewart's election special last night? It was hilarious. :)
First say to yourself what you would be; then do what you need to do. ~Epictetus

annis
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 3399
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Contact:

Post by annis »

klewlis wrote:who watched Jon Stewart's election special last night? It was hilarious. :)
It was. I have to say I found some of it gut-wrenching, though.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

classicalclarinet
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 400
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:27 am
Location: Anc, AK, USA

Post by classicalclarinet »

ach, I missed it. :cry:

EmptyMan
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:48 am
Location: Augusta, Georgia

Post by EmptyMan »

classicalclarinet wrote:Where mine is...
Lol. They have a Reagan Democrat party? Where can I sign up.

Rhuiden
Textkit Fan
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: East Tennessee

Post by Rhuiden »

EmptyMan wrote:I am socially conservative but economically liberal.
That is an interesting combination. With most people who are split, they are economically conservative and socially liberal. What are some issues that you are economically liberal on?

Rhuiden

cweb255
Textkit Fan
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:15 am

Post by cweb255 »

Economically conservative and socially liberal. But heck, I'm moving to Canada now. I don't think I can stand four more years of this hypocritical bible thumping *probably never even read the bible* neofascist.

Rhuiden
Textkit Fan
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: East Tennessee

Post by Rhuiden »

cweb255 wrote:Economically conservative and socially liberal. But heck, I'm moving to Canada now. I don't think I can stand four more years of this hypocritical bible thumping *probably never even read the bible* neofascist.
Have a safe trip.

PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by PeterD »

The Uk paper, Daily Mirror, expressed what's on the minds of billions of people around the world with this front page headline:

How can 59,054,087 people be so DUMB?

Indeed!

Here's a video snippet to 4 more years of GWB:

www.hategun.com/features/mistaken/index.html


~PeterD
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis

Episcopus
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 8:57 pm

Post by Episcopus »

Have you already subtracted the blacks

PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by PeterD »

Episcopus wrote:Have you already subtracted the blacks
Actually, the headline should have been "How can 59,054,087 people be so DUMB or PSYCHOPATHIC?"

There's is a statistical study published in the highly- regarded British medical journal, Lancet, done by scientists at John Hopkins University, showing, at a minimum, 100,000 excess civilian deaths after the Iraqi invasion.

All these senseless deaths because some one with an IQ of a doormat had this wild hunch that Saddam was dangerous to the US. And the American electorate chose him for 4 more years --amazing!

"God Bless America" :roll:


~PeterD

11/4/04: Edited slightly to clean up language. -Marie
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis

Democritus
Textkit Fan
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 12:14 am
Location: California

Post by Democritus »

cweb255 wrote:Economically conservative and socially liberal. But heck, I'm moving to Canada now. I don't think I can stand four more years of this hypocritical bible thumping *probably never even read the bible* neofascist.
Don't leave, cweb, we need you here. Remember that the arrogant are always brought down, in the end.

We have work to do. The voting machines need to be repaired, and the poor misguided Bush voters need the wool pulled from over their eyes.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. We have not even begun to fight.

PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by PeterD »

Democritus wrote:Don't leave, cweb, we need you here. Remember that the arrogant are always brought down, in the end.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. We have not even begun to fight.
Democritus is right, cweb. Stay and fight!

The majority of Americans are good people: less than 20% of the American population actually voted for bush -- i.e, the YAHOOS are in the minority! Sure, there is a lot of work to be done -- social, enviromental, economic, and strengthening the peace movement -- but it WILL be done, and the sooner when good people stay and fight.

~PeterD

p.s. besides, cweb, as great a country as Canada is, I think a boy from Tenn. might find the winters a bit cold. :wink:
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis

Emma_85
Global Moderator
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: London

Post by Emma_85 »

What do you mean only 20% voted for Bush? :? He had more votes than Kerry I thought?

I agree with the Daily Mirror headline, there was also a similar one on a German tabloid, but on a serious one too.
Die Bild: "Victory using the Schröder-trick" (i.e. they say he won the election the same way Schröder won it)
Die Zeit's headlines (very serious paper, i.e. thicker than most books): "The hated winner" and "The man who won anyway"
other newspapers:
Berner Zeitung (Switzerland): "After election-outcome (there is) cause for concern"
Tages Anzeige (Switzerland): "Threat of a oneparty-dictatorship"
Gazeta Wyborcza (Poland): "Bush's win is not good news"
Blikk (Hungary): „Four more years, another four years of war?“

Turpissimus
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: Romford

Post by Turpissimus »

What do you mean only 20% voted for Bush? Confused He had more votes than Kerry I thought?
I suppose he means 20% of the total population, including those americans who either did not vote or were not of voting age.

PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by PeterD »

Emma_85 wrote:What do you mean only 20% voted for Bush? :?
Hi Emma,

The population of the US is just over 300,000,000.
He had more votes than Kerry I thought?
We can't be sure of that, especially in Ohio, the Buckeye State. All exit polls in Ohio had Kerry ahead by 5 points. What happened? Exit polls don't make mistakes. There were many irregularities reported in Ohio (as well as other key states) of voter intimidation, voided ballots in poor and minority precincts, not to mention the uncounted ballots. Plus, last year, the CEO of DIEBOLD, the company that makes the electronic voting machines (the ones that leave no paper trail!) promised the republicans that he would deliver Ohio to Bush. Don't you like a guy who keeps his promises?

Anyway, if you have some time, check out www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won_.pb and www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=392&row=0 .

Take care,

~PeterD

p.s. Question: How will the Americans conduct proper elections in Iraq when they can't conduct fair elections at home?
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis

User avatar
Jeff Tirey
Administrator
Posts: 896
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 6:58 pm
Location: Strongsville, Ohio

Post by Jeff Tirey »

PeterD wrote: All these senseless deaths because some one with an IQ of a doormat had this wild hunch that Saddam was dangerous to the US. And the American electorate chose him for 4 more years --amazing!
I edited your post because I don't like even the suggestion of bad language.
Textkit Founder

mariek
Global Moderator
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:19 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by mariek »

PeterD wrote: Anyway, if you have some time, check out www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won_.pb and www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=392&row=0 .

I couldn't get to the tompaine link, but got the gregplaast to load OK.

mariek
Global Moderator
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:19 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by mariek »

jeff wrote:
PeterD wrote: All these senseless deaths because some one with an IQ of a doormat had this wild hunch that Saddam was dangerous to the US. And the American electorate chose him for 4 more years --amazing!
I edited your post because I don't like even the suggestion of bad language.

Sorry, Jeff. I should have bleeped out the entire word.

Rhuiden
Textkit Fan
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: East Tennessee

Post by Rhuiden »

PeterD wrote:We can't be sure of that, especially in Ohio, the Buckeye State. All exit polls in Ohio had Kerry ahead by 5 points. What happened? Exit polls don't make mistakes.
That is incorrect, the exit polls have been wrong in the last 3 elections. I have been hearing that reported for two days by several of the major news organizations as well as various talk radio shows. They have reported that this time the exit polls were weighted 60-40 women because most of the people conducting the exit poll were women. Also, it was not scientific because no attempt was made to get a representative sample. Sounds like some errors were made to me.
PeterD wrote:There were many irregularities reported in Ohio (as well as other key states) of voter intimidation, voided ballots in poor and minority precincts, not to mention the uncounted ballots.
Were is the evidence of these reported irregularities? Someone can report anything but that does not make it true. If there were problems, the news media would have reported nothing else for the past 2 days and Kerry would not have conceded.
PeterD wrote:Plus, last year, the CEO of DIEBOLD, the company that makes the electronic voting machines (the ones that leave no paper trail!) promised the republicans that he would deliver Ohio to Bush. Don't you like a guy who keeps his promises?
Rumors and falsehoods like this have been circulating since 2000. Do you not think that the democrats and republicans would have had people examine the machines to see if they could be tampered with in any way? Do you really believe things like this or do you just say them to get someone to react? Better watch out for the black helicopters. (no offense intended, just having a little fun with you)

I will check out the link though to see what it says.

Rhuiden

Eureka
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Eureka »

I agree with Rhuiden on the exit polls. What people say when interviewed is not always true.

For example, most pre-election polls here are done via telephone. However, one of the groups who do polling do it via asking people face-to-face who they'll vote for. This poll always predicts a Labor win. It seems, therefore, that some people vote Liberal but never admit it (even to a stranger). These exit polls would have a similar problem.

Rhuiden
Textkit Fan
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: East Tennessee

Post by Rhuiden »

Another thing I have heard reported about the exit polls was that they were conducted primarily in urban areas. Those are not very representative of the country as a whole. This brings the question....were these truly errors or were the polls purposely conducted in a manner to get a "desired" result?

The pollsters are professionals and are paid large sums of money to conduct their polls. I find it very hard to believe that they suddenly forgot how to do their job properly. The only possible answer then is that the exit polls were planned and conducted in such a was as to get the "desired" result. I believe they were trying to suppress the republican vote in much the same way as what happened in the Florida panhandle in 2000.

OK, so there is my conspiracy theory.

Rhuiden

PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by PeterD »

Rhuiden wrote:Do you really believe things like this or do you just say them to get someone to react?
Coming from a superb investigative journalist like Greg Palast, yes I do. Healthy scepticism keeps a democracy strong.

By the way, don't you think electronic voting machines that leave no paper audit trail is odd? These machines leave no permanent record. How do you verify if a vote was counted or not?

[Rhuiden, I have a feeling William's patience with us is running thin. :) ]
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis

William
Textkit Fan
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:16 pm
Location: Kearny, NJ 07032 • Die vereinigten Staaten

Post by William »

PeterD wrote:[Rhuiden, I have a feeling William's patience with us is running thin. :) ]
No, I'm okay. Carry on...

William :wink:

PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by PeterD »

William wrote:
PeterD wrote:[Rhuiden, I have a feeling William's patience with us is running thin. :) ]
No, I'm okay. Carry on...

William :wink:
Excellent...

Now, as for the Ohio exit polls getting it wrong, I find that hard to believe. The people who conduct these polls are exceptional in their field; they are not first-timers; they are professionals; and, they asked the same question they asked in Florida in 2000: Who did you vote for? Remember the Florida count in 2000 when the exit polls showed that Gore won? When they finally got around to counting ALL the votes, Gore did win.

I am not saying this because I did not like the outcome of the election. True, it is no secret that I believe Bush to be a horrible president who simply got away with bloody murder (literally), by avoiding serious issues like the war, the economy and the environment, and usurping them with petty issues like god, gays and guns, etc. I thought Americans (and this fragile world) deserved much better than Bush or Kerry. No, I am saying this because it's strange that the pollsters tally did not match the total votes counted. And I simply ask, why not? Were not all the votes counted?


~PeterD
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis

Rhuiden
Textkit Fan
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: East Tennessee

Post by Rhuiden »

PeterD wrote:Remember the Florida count in 2000 when the exit polls showed that Gore won? When they finally got around to counting ALL the votes, Gore did win.
What do you base this on? I have heard that 5 or 6 different news organizations did recounts after everything was done and Bush won each time. Had Bush not won, it would have been on the front page of every newspaper and on every news show in the world. I believe it is time for people to let this go.
PeterD wrote:No, I am saying this because it's strange that the pollsters tally did not match the total votes counted. And I simply ask, why not? Were not all the votes counted?
I think the answer is obvious. Pollsters do not ask every single person who they voted for. As I said in a previous post, it does not appear that they were trying to get a representative sample. First, the exit polls were concentrated in urban areas. Second, the exit polls were weighted 60 % women and 40 % men. Next, not everyone who is asked will respond to the exit pollsters and some who do will lie to the pollster. Combine these with the fact that on Monday (in the final pre-election polls) almost every major poll showed Bush winning 51% to 48% and the exit polls do not look very reliable.

Bush won with an overwelming mandate, the only question now is whether or not the Republican majority in the House and Senate will grow backbones and begin to implement the conservative agenda.

Rhuiden

PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by PeterD »

Rhuiden wrote:
PeterD wrote:Remember the Florida count in 2000 when the exit polls showed that Gore won? When they finally got around to counting ALL the votes, Gore did win.
What do you base this on? I have heard that 5 or 6 different news organizations did recounts after everything was done and Bush won each time. Had Bush not won, it would have been on the front page of every newspaper and on every news show in the world.
It WAS frontpage news all over the world. The BBC even did a documentary on it. It's just that your mainstream media did not have the backbone to cover it. Check out www.gregpalast.com for the links.
Bush won with an overwhelming mandate,
A 51 - 48 split of votes 'counted' is not exactly an 'overwhelming' majority. Remember, he has the support of less than 20% of the US population (i.e., 59m / 300m = < 20%).
the only question now is whether or not the Republican majority in the House and Senate will grow backbones and begin to implement the conservative agenda.


Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it. :wink:


~PeterD
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis

classicalclarinet
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 400
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:27 am
Location: Anc, AK, USA

Post by classicalclarinet »

Exit polls would lose their reliability in such tight elections as these, it's harder to get right even when you use all the methods possible. Take the numerous polls (telephone polls, more accurate than exit polls) who predicted bush and kerry would tie.

classicalclarinet
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 400
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:27 am
Location: Anc, AK, USA

Post by classicalclarinet »

the only question now is whether or not the Republican majority in the House and Senate will grow backbones and begin to implement the conservative agenda.
Filibuster, anyone?

EmptyMan
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:48 am
Location: Augusta, Georgia

Post by EmptyMan »

cweb255 wrote:Economically conservative and socially liberal. But heck, I'm moving to Canada now. I don't think I can stand four more years of this hypocritical bible thumping *probably never even read the bible* neofascist.
Lol. That's a trip, I would rather have facism than communism :lol: . Have a good time in Canada

EmptyMan
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:48 am
Location: Augusta, Georgia

Post by EmptyMan »

All these senseless deaths because some one with an IQ of a doormat had this wild hunch that Saddam was dangerous to the US. And the American electorate chose him for 4 more years --amazing!
Lol. The funny thing about the ignorant comment is Bush's SAT's were higher than Kerry's.

classicalclarinet
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 400
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:27 am
Location: Anc, AK, USA

Post by classicalclarinet »

I thought it was an IQ-test?

EmptyMan
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:48 am
Location: Augusta, Georgia

Post by EmptyMan »

classicalclarinet wrote:I thought it was an IQ-test?
IQ, whatever. I am sick of people insulting Bush. Just because he does not speak like a pretentious bafoon does not mean he is not intellegent.

Episcopus
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 8:57 pm

Post by Episcopus »

EmptyMan wrote:
classicalclarinet wrote:I thought it was an IQ-test?
IQ, whatever. I am sick of people insulting Bush. Just because he does not speak like a pretentious bafoon does not mean he is not intellegent.
hahaha

check how inverse this is, just for you

http://media.skoopy.com/vids/vid_00323.mov

Eureka
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Eureka »

Episcopus wrote:hahaha

check how inverse this is, just for you

http://media.skoopy.com/vids/vid_00323.mov
Bringing the nation togeather. :shock:

Post Reply