Reading the Coptic Gospel of Thomas with its Greek fragments?
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Reading the Coptic Gospel of Thomas with its Greek fragments?
I am currently reading the second chapter of the Gospel according to John. After I have finished that, I would like to start reading the Coptic Gospel of Thomas (which is in the Nag Hammadi material), It is on top of my Coptic to-read list.
As this gospel was most likely originally in Greek and since there are also several Greek fragments preserved, would other people be interested in reading and studying the text and fragments together?
That would be great. I am not an expert, but know the basics of Coptic and Greek, along with some theology.
As this gospel was most likely originally in Greek and since there are also several Greek fragments preserved, would other people be interested in reading and studying the text and fragments together?
That would be great. I am not an expert, but know the basics of Coptic and Greek, along with some theology.
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Re: Reading the Coptic Gospel of Thomas with its Greek fragments?
I would be interested in this.
A few months ago I attempted a retro-translation into Greek of the whole Coptic text. I included the extent Greek fragments.
here is the website I set up for it:
https://ouranobasis.github.io/metaphras ... elion.html
A few months ago I attempted a retro-translation into Greek of the whole Coptic text. I included the extent Greek fragments.
here is the website I set up for it:
https://ouranobasis.github.io/metaphras ... elion.html
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Re: Reading the Coptic Gospel of Thomas with its Greek fragments?
That looks very interesting. So you already studied the complete Thomas gospel. I don't know if I'm too ambitious to attempt to study it already, but I'll give it a try. I think I need one more week for the John gospel chapter 2, then I'll start with the Thomas gospel.
Would be nice to discuss grammar and contents here.
Would be nice to discuss grammar and contents here.
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Re: Reading the Coptic Gospel of Thomas with its Greek fragments?
I probably won't be able to do a coplete read but I'll follow with interest.
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Logion 1
ⲁⲩⲱ ⲡⲉϫⲁϥ ϫⲉ ⲡⲉⲧⲁϩⲉ ⲉⲑⲉⲣⲙⲏⲛⲉⲓⲁ ⲛ̅ ⲛⲉⲓϣⲁϫⲉ ⲉϥⲛⲁϫⲓϯⲡⲉ ⲁⲛ ⲙⲡⲙⲟⲩ.
I think it would translate:
"And He said: "He who will find the interpretation of these words, he will not taste the death."
I had trouble with ⲡⲉⲧⲁϩⲉ. I knew it must have to do with the verb ϩⲉ, but I did not recognize the form.
According to the commentary of Martijn Linssen:
https://www.academia.edu/46974146
"ⲡⲉⲧⲁ is the first dialect of the text, it is the Subakhmimic 1st Future Tense."
I think it would translate:
"And He said: "He who will find the interpretation of these words, he will not taste the death."
I had trouble with ⲡⲉⲧⲁϩⲉ. I knew it must have to do with the verb ϩⲉ, but I did not recognize the form.
According to the commentary of Martijn Linssen:
https://www.academia.edu/46974146
"ⲡⲉⲧⲁ is the first dialect of the text, it is the Subakhmimic 1st Future Tense."
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Re: Reading the Coptic Gospel of Thomas with its Greek fragments?
Perhaps ⲡⲉⲧⲁϩⲉ is better First Perfect relative: "he who found" (thanks to the Egyptology Discord server).
The first line reads:
ⲛⲁⲉⲓ ⲛⲉ ⲛ̅ϣⲁϫⲉ ⲉⲑⲏⲡ ⲉⲛⲧⲁⲓ̅ⲥ̅ ⲉⲧⲟⲛϩ ϫⲟⲟⲩ ⲁⲩⲱ ⲁϥⲥϩαϊⲟⲩ ⲛ̅ϭⲓ ⲇⲓⲇⲩⲙⲟⲥ ϊⲟⲩⲇⲁⲥ ⲑⲱⲙⲁⲥ
"These are the words which are hidden which Jesus, who is alive, spoke, and Didymus Judas Thomas wrote them down."
The subject of ⲡⲉϫⲁϥ could be Jesus or Thomas. But as it is written in the first half that it is Jesus who spoke and Thomas who wrote, is Jesus most probably the subject?
The first line reads:
ⲛⲁⲉⲓ ⲛⲉ ⲛ̅ϣⲁϫⲉ ⲉⲑⲏⲡ ⲉⲛⲧⲁⲓ̅ⲥ̅ ⲉⲧⲟⲛϩ ϫⲟⲟⲩ ⲁⲩⲱ ⲁϥⲥϩαϊⲟⲩ ⲛ̅ϭⲓ ⲇⲓⲇⲩⲙⲟⲥ ϊⲟⲩⲇⲁⲥ ⲑⲱⲙⲁⲥ
"These are the words which are hidden which Jesus, who is alive, spoke, and Didymus Judas Thomas wrote them down."
The subject of ⲡⲉϫⲁϥ could be Jesus or Thomas. But as it is written in the first half that it is Jesus who spoke and Thomas who wrote, is Jesus most probably the subject?
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Re: Reading the Coptic Gospel of Thomas with its Greek fragments?
I guess ⲡⲉⲧⲁϩⲉ could be a First Perfect relative but the Future seems more plausible to me, if only because I find "he who will..., he will..."more satisfying.
If I remember correctly, the "normal" construction in Thomas for a Past relative where Subject=Antecedent is with -ⲛⲧⲁϩ-, so I would expect ⲡⲉⲛⲧⲁϩϩⲉ for "he who has found". But my memory is hazy and I wouldn't be surprised if things were more complex than that.
It would help to have some idea of how common this is in Thomas, i.e. is this the only ambiguous case or are there many.
If I remember correctly, the "normal" construction in Thomas for a Past relative where Subject=Antecedent is with -ⲛⲧⲁϩ-, so I would expect ⲡⲉⲛⲧⲁϩϩⲉ for "he who has found". But my memory is hazy and I wouldn't be surprised if things were more complex than that.
It would help to have some idea of how common this is in Thomas, i.e. is this the only ambiguous case or are there many.
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Re: Reading the Coptic Gospel of Thomas with its Greek fragments?
Bentley Layton (in Nag Hammadi Codex II,2-7, Leiden: Brill 1989, page 52) suggests indeed reading First Future relative Sahidic ⲡⲉⲧⲛⲁϩⲉ for manuscript ⲡⲉⲧⲁϩⲉ.
One of the features of the manuscript (according to Layton, in the Introduction to the above book, page 10, nr. 9) is that ⲁ = ⲛⲁ of the future, a Subachmimicism.
One of the features of the manuscript (according to Layton, in the Introduction to the above book, page 10, nr. 9) is that ⲁ = ⲛⲁ of the future, a Subachmimicism.
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Logion 2
ⲙⲛ̅ⲧⲣⲉϥⲗⲟ, probably (according to Layton, Introduction page 10 ⲙⲛ̅ = ⲙ̅ⲡⲣ̅, a Subachmimicism) in Sahidic ⲙ̅ⲡⲣ̅ⲧⲣⲉϥⲗⲟ, 3rd m. sg. negative injuction of ⲗⲟ: "Don't let him stop".
In this logion, we find both:
ϥⲛⲁϣⲧⲣ̅ⲧⲣ̅ (first future: "he will become troubled")
and
ⲉϥϣⲁⲛϣⲧⲟⲣⲧⲣ̅ (conditional: "when he becomes troubled")
with two slightly different forms of the verb (ϣⲧⲣ̅ⲧⲣ̅ and ϣⲧⲟⲣⲧⲣ̅), givng ⲟⲣ for ⲣ̅. I assume this might be scribal variance?
In this logion, we find both:
ϥⲛⲁϣⲧⲣ̅ⲧⲣ̅ (first future: "he will become troubled")
and
ⲉϥϣⲁⲛϣⲧⲟⲣⲧⲣ̅ (conditional: "when he becomes troubled")
with two slightly different forms of the verb (ϣⲧⲣ̅ⲧⲣ̅ and ϣⲧⲟⲣⲧⲣ̅), givng ⲟⲣ for ⲣ̅. I assume this might be scribal variance?
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Re: Reading the Coptic Gospel of Thomas with its Greek fragments?
Good eye! I agree there doesn't seem to be a reason for the variation here. The Subachmimic form would be ϣⲧⲁⲣⲧⲣ̄ if I'm not mistaken so I find it a bit strange to see the scribe lapsing into ϣⲧⲣ̄ⲧⲣ̄.
I did a very quick check in some Subachmimic texts though and could only find one occurence of ϣⲧⲣ̄ⲧⲣ̄, but as a noun (ⲉⲡⲓⲇⲏ ⲛⲉϥⲟⲉⲓ ⲛ̄ⲟⲩϩⲣ̄ⲧⲉ ⲙⲛ̄ ⲟⲩϣⲧⲣ̄ⲧⲣ̄ "Since it was terror and disturbance" Gospel of Truth 29,1-2). Still, the form existed, maybe that's what triggered the scribe into writing it in Logeion 2?
I did a very quick check in some Subachmimic texts though and could only find one occurence of ϣⲧⲣ̄ⲧⲣ̄, but as a noun (ⲉⲡⲓⲇⲏ ⲛⲉϥⲟⲉⲓ ⲛ̄ⲟⲩϩⲣ̄ⲧⲉ ⲙⲛ̄ ⲟⲩϣⲧⲣ̄ⲧⲣ̄ "Since it was terror and disturbance" Gospel of Truth 29,1-2). Still, the form existed, maybe that's what triggered the scribe into writing it in Logeion 2?
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Logion 3
In this logion there are two identical verb forms spelled slightly differently:
ⲉⲩϣⲁϫⲟⲟⲥ, and ⲉⲩϣⲁⲛϫⲟⲟⲥ, which is a conditional 3rd plural: "if they say". ⲉⲩϣⲁⲛϫⲟⲟⲥ is how this verb form also occurs in Sahidic.
ϩⲟⲧⲁⲛ ⲉⲧⲉⲧⲛ̅ϣⲁⲛⲥⲟⲩⲱⲛ ⲧⲏⲩⲧⲛ̅, ⲧⲟⲧⲉ ⲥⲉⲛⲁⲥⲟⲩⲱⲛ ⲧⲏⲛⲉ ("when you know yourselves, then they will know you (all) / then you (all) will be known")
ⲧⲏⲛⲉ appears to be the Akhmimic and Lycopolitan version of ⲧⲏⲩⲧⲛ̅ you (all). Why are in this same verse-part both ⲧⲏⲩⲧⲛ̅ and ⲧⲏⲛⲉ given? Could this be because ⲧⲏⲩⲧⲛ̅ is reflexive and ⲧⲏⲛⲉ is an object?
ⲉⲩϣⲁϫⲟⲟⲥ, and ⲉⲩϣⲁⲛϫⲟⲟⲥ, which is a conditional 3rd plural: "if they say". ⲉⲩϣⲁⲛϫⲟⲟⲥ is how this verb form also occurs in Sahidic.
ϩⲟⲧⲁⲛ ⲉⲧⲉⲧⲛ̅ϣⲁⲛⲥⲟⲩⲱⲛ ⲧⲏⲩⲧⲛ̅, ⲧⲟⲧⲉ ⲥⲉⲛⲁⲥⲟⲩⲱⲛ ⲧⲏⲛⲉ ("when you know yourselves, then they will know you (all) / then you (all) will be known")
ⲧⲏⲛⲉ appears to be the Akhmimic and Lycopolitan version of ⲧⲏⲩⲧⲛ̅ you (all). Why are in this same verse-part both ⲧⲏⲩⲧⲛ̅ and ⲧⲏⲛⲉ given? Could this be because ⲧⲏⲩⲧⲛ̅ is reflexive and ⲧⲏⲛⲉ is an object?
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Logion 4
ⲡⲣⲱⲙⲉ ⲛ̅ϩⲗ̅ⲗ̅ⲟ ϩⲛ̅ ⲛⲉϥϩⲟⲟⲩ. The most logical translation is, I think, "The man old in his days". But is it possible that ϩⲛ̅ ⲛⲉϥϩⲟⲟⲩ belongs to ⲡⲣⲱⲙⲉ and not to ϩⲗ̅ⲗ̅ⲟ? Then the translation would be "the old man in his days".
The expression reminds me of the biblical term עתיק יומין Ancient of Days, which occurs mostly in (Aramaic) Daniel, but possibly this has nothing to do with the logion here.
ⲡⲧⲟⲡⲟⲥ ⲙ̅ ⲡⲱⲛϩ literally: "the place of the life", which is (for now) vague. ⲧⲟⲡⲟⲥ is the Greek τοπος, which is also preserved in the Greek fragment of this logion. Perhaps further occurrences of this word in the text will shed some light on its meaning.
The expression reminds me of the biblical term עתיק יומין Ancient of Days, which occurs mostly in (Aramaic) Daniel, but possibly this has nothing to do with the logion here.
ⲡⲧⲟⲡⲟⲥ ⲙ̅ ⲡⲱⲛϩ literally: "the place of the life", which is (for now) vague. ⲧⲟⲡⲟⲥ is the Greek τοπος, which is also preserved in the Greek fragment of this logion. Perhaps further occurrences of this word in the text will shed some light on its meaning.
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Logion 5
ⲙⲛ̅ ⲗⲁⲁⲩ ⲅⲁⲣ ⲉϥϩⲏⲡ ⲉϥⲛⲁⲟⲩⲱⲛϩ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ⲁⲛ "There is nothing that is hidden that will not become revealed"
ⲉϥϩⲏⲡ is a circumstantial first present
ⲉϥⲛⲁⲟⲩⲱⲛϩ appears to be a circumstantial first future, but it could also be second future, as this is the same shape as a circumstantial first future.
I could imagine a sentence with (only) two circumstantial forms could exist: the present describing how it now is, the future how it now will become. Is this correct?
ⲉϥϩⲏⲡ is a circumstantial first present
ⲉϥⲛⲁⲟⲩⲱⲛϩ appears to be a circumstantial first future, but it could also be second future, as this is the same shape as a circumstantial first future.
I could imagine a sentence with (only) two circumstantial forms could exist: the present describing how it now is, the future how it now will become. Is this correct?
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Logion 6
ⲉϣ ⲧⲉ ⲑⲉ "what way" or perhaps, with more emphasis: "what is the way"
According to Layton (Nag Hammadi Codex 2) this would in Sahidic be: ⲛ̅ⲁϣ ⲛ̅ϩⲉ
Allen (Coptic dialects, p. 19, #3.2) gives Sahidic ⲁϣ for Fayumic, Lycopolitan & Oxyrhynchite ⲁϣ.
ⲉⲛⲁϣⲗⲏⲗ. I think a Second Future (first person plural common) because of the question, for Sahidic ⲉⲛⲛⲁϣⲗⲏⲗ: "we will pray".
ⲉⲩⲛⲁϭⲱ ⲟⲩⲉϣⲛ̅ ϭⲟⲗⲡϥ: "that will remain without revealing it".
ⲟⲩⲉϣⲛ̅ is a preposition, Sahidic (according to Layton) ⲛ̅ ⲟⲩⲉϣⲛ̅: "without" (note, as above, the omission of ⲛ̅ in the gospel text).
ϭⲟⲗⲡϥ I think is an infinitive with suffix of the object (3rd singular masculin: revealing it.
According to Layton (Nag Hammadi Codex 2) this would in Sahidic be: ⲛ̅ⲁϣ ⲛ̅ϩⲉ
Allen (Coptic dialects, p. 19, #3.2) gives Sahidic ⲁϣ for Fayumic, Lycopolitan & Oxyrhynchite ⲁϣ.
ⲉⲛⲁϣⲗⲏⲗ. I think a Second Future (first person plural common) because of the question, for Sahidic ⲉⲛⲛⲁϣⲗⲏⲗ: "we will pray".
ⲉⲩⲛⲁϭⲱ ⲟⲩⲉϣⲛ̅ ϭⲟⲗⲡϥ: "that will remain without revealing it".
ⲟⲩⲉϣⲛ̅ is a preposition, Sahidic (according to Layton) ⲛ̅ ⲟⲩⲉϣⲛ̅: "without" (note, as above, the omission of ⲛ̅ in the gospel text).
ϭⲟⲗⲡϥ I think is an infinitive with suffix of the object (3rd singular masculin: revealing it.
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Logion 7
ⲁⲩⲱ ⲛ̅ⲧⲉ ⲡⲙⲟⲩⲉⲓ ϣⲱⲡⲉ ⲣ̅ⲣⲱⲙⲉ "and the lion becomes man"
ⲛ̅ⲧⲉ <subject> ϣⲱⲡⲉ is a conjuncive, continuing the previous statement.
ⲣ̅ⲣⲱⲙⲉ for ⲛ̅ⲣⲱⲙⲉ, I think (Layton in his introduction, 1.1 states that ⲛ̅ can assimilate to ⲣ̅) , where ⲛ̅ is, I think, probably a preposition to go along with ϣⲱⲡⲉ, indicating the object of becoming. I'm, however, not sure about that.
ⲛ̅ⲧⲉ <subject> ϣⲱⲡⲉ is a conjuncive, continuing the previous statement.
ⲣ̅ⲣⲱⲙⲉ for ⲛ̅ⲣⲱⲙⲉ, I think (Layton in his introduction, 1.1 states that ⲛ̅ can assimilate to ⲣ̅) , where ⲛ̅ is, I think, probably a preposition to go along with ϣⲱⲡⲉ, indicating the object of becoming. I'm, however, not sure about that.
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Logion 8
ⲉⲡⲣⲱⲙⲉ ⲧⲛ̅ⲧⲱⲛ ⲁⲩⲟⲩⲱϩⲉ ⲣ̅ⲣⲙⲛ̅ϩⲏⲧ "the man resembles a wise fisherman"
ⲉ-ⲡ.ⲣⲱⲙⲉ ⲧⲛ̅ⲧⲱⲛ, "the man resembles" is apparently a Second Present form, focussing on the resemblance.
ⲁⲩⲟⲩⲱϩⲉ = Sahidic: ⲉ.ⲟⲩ.ⲟⲩⲱϩⲉ ("to a fisherman"). Sahidic preposition ⲉ is in this manuscript ⲁ (Layton, introduction #18).
ⲣ̅ⲣⲙⲛ̅ϩⲏⲧ for ⲛ̅ⲣⲙⲛ̅ϩⲏⲧ (assimilation of ⲛ̅, see Logion 7 above).
ⲡⲁⲉⲓ ⲛ̅ⲧⲁϩⲛⲟⲩϫⲉ "who cast". First perfect relative (3rd singular masculin), but I am not sure where the ϩ comes from.
ⲉ-ⲡ.ⲣⲱⲙⲉ ⲧⲛ̅ⲧⲱⲛ, "the man resembles" is apparently a Second Present form, focussing on the resemblance.
ⲁⲩⲟⲩⲱϩⲉ = Sahidic: ⲉ.ⲟⲩ.ⲟⲩⲱϩⲉ ("to a fisherman"). Sahidic preposition ⲉ is in this manuscript ⲁ (Layton, introduction #18).
ⲣ̅ⲣⲙⲛ̅ϩⲏⲧ for ⲛ̅ⲣⲙⲛ̅ϩⲏⲧ (assimilation of ⲛ̅, see Logion 7 above).
ⲡⲁⲉⲓ ⲛ̅ⲧⲁϩⲛⲟⲩϫⲉ "who cast". First perfect relative (3rd singular masculin), but I am not sure where the ϩ comes from.
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Re: Logion 8
"ⲡⲁⲉⲓ ⲛ̅ⲧⲁϩⲛⲟⲩϫⲉ "who cast". First perfect relative (3rd singular masculin), but I am not sure where the ϩ comes from."
Apparently the ⲛ̅ⲧⲁϩ is the Subachmimic form of Sahidic (ⲉ)ⲛⲧⲁϥ for a First Perfect relative clause where the subject is the same as in the main clause (Layton, Introduction to Codex II,2-7, page 10, #12).
Apparently the ⲛ̅ⲧⲁϩ is the Subachmimic form of Sahidic (ⲉ)ⲛⲧⲁϥ for a First Perfect relative clause where the subject is the same as in the main clause (Layton, Introduction to Codex II,2-7, page 10, #12).
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Logion 13
"ⲧⲛ̅ⲧⲱⲛⲧ ⲛ̅ⲧⲉⲧⲛ̅ϫⲟⲟⲥ ⲛⲁⲉⲓ" = "compare me and you (pl) tell me..."
ⲧⲛ̅ⲧⲱⲛ.ⲧ imperative of ⲧⲟⲛⲧⲛ with object-suffix first person singular.
ⲛ̅ⲧⲉⲧⲛ̅ϫⲟⲟ.ⲥ is conjunctive second person plural with object-suffix third person feminine ("it"), literally: "and/then you (pl.) say it".
ⲧⲛ̅ⲧⲱⲛ.ⲧ imperative of ⲧⲟⲛⲧⲛ with object-suffix first person singular.
ⲛ̅ⲧⲉⲧⲛ̅ϫⲟⲟ.ⲥ is conjunctive second person plural with object-suffix third person feminine ("it"), literally: "and/then you (pl.) say it".
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reading further on my own
I will read further in Thomas' Gospel on my own, perhaps posting a note here and there. Please contact me in a private messsage if you are willing to read and discuss the Coptic text and its interpretation with me.