capvt XVII 'sēcum iungere coeperant

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ClassyCuss
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Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:10 pm

capvt XVII 'sēcum iungere coeperant

Post by ClassyCuss »

Salute!
I'm trying to check an online flashcard again, this time for an exercise in Chapter 17, with no context provided:

Miserōs hominēs, autem, sēcum iungere coeperant.

online translatio n = They had begun, however, to join sad men with themselves.

I have a couple questions:
1) for "autem" is there any clear way to decide between "however" or "moreover" without the context?
2) What is "iungere secum" supposed to mean here> Are there really two groups (i.e. they started adding some wretches to their number/joining up with some wretches" or are there a lot of individual wreches who are joining together to form a single group? In other words can "se cum" mean "with one another" (e.g. "Some wretches had begun to join up/assemble") or would that require a special construction like "miseros alii cum aliis iungere coeperant"?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

tico
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:14 am

Re: capvt XVII 'sēcum iungere coeperant

Post by tico »

Hi there,
Just saw your message. I have never worked with Wheelock (I own it, but...). Anyway:
1)autem indicates a light opposition, eventually an addition; without context, you cannot decide the best sense, but I don't think it's really important in this case;
2) secum is a reflexive (cum+se), meaning it refers, in this case, to the subject of the sentence: They started joining to themselves (secum) sad/miserable/deplorable men.
3) secum cannot mean "with one another"; I think you could use congregari / se congregare: Some wretches had begun to join up/assemble > Aliqui miseri congregari (se congregare) coeperant. Cicero says (De officiis, 2, 73): Nam, etsi duce natura congregabantur homines, tamen spe custodiae rerum suarum urbium praesidia quaerebant.
Hope this helps.

ClassyCuss
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:10 pm

Re: capvt XVII 'sēcum iungere coeperant

Post by ClassyCuss »

salve Tico!

(Did you know that "Tico" is slang for Costa Rican because they use the diminutive "tico" instead of "ito", e.g. a little bit = "un poquitico" instead of "un poquito"?).

Thanks a lot for the explanations. As a translator, I always try to have a clear picture in my head of what's going on or else the translation is probably wrong, and I'm not very clear here in this case. It could be an army that's marching home after a lost battle and some wounded stragglers join in with the main body of troops on their way home, so that would make sense, Maybe They (the troops) picked up some wretched stragglers" or something. Personally, I would never say "We joined others to ourselves" but Wheelock obviously has no problem with it.

Good point about congregare, and thanks again.

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