Grammatical question

Here you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Latin, and more.
Post Reply
Aurelia
Textkit Fan
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:58 am
Location: Montana
Contact:

Grammatical question

Post by Aurelia »

When I say "I have to go" in Latin, since I'm a female should I say "opa est mihi discedenda" or "opus est mihi discedenda." Is "discedenda" even right? I really need to brush up on my gerunds and gerundives!

Also, when I say "I am worried/annoyed" should I use "vexo" or "vexar" because "I am worried" is the same as "I worry."

User avatar
Lucus Eques
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2037
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:52 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Post by Lucus Eques »

I'd love to be clarified on the former myself, Aurelia. I'm not quite sure. I guess males have the advantage of speaking without as many complications of grammar to worry about. ;)

And as for worrying, I think vexar makes the most sense, for both English translations. Vexo would imply that you are annoying someone, that you are disturbing someone. Vexar, of course, is you being bothered or disturbed or worried by someone or something else.
L. Amādeus Rāniērius · Λ. Θεόφιλος Ῥᾱνιήριος 🦂

SCORPIO·MARTIANVS

Titus Marius Crispus
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:00 am
Location: San Antonio, TX, USA

Post by Titus Marius Crispus »

When I say "I have to go" in Latin, since I'm a female should I say "opa est mihi discedenda" or "opus est mihi discedenda." Is "discedenda" even right? I really need to brush up on my gerunds and gerundives!
I'm not familiar with that "opus est" construction. I would think that would more commonly be used in statements of need (we need books, etc.). However, opus is a noun and will never be opa. Nouns don't change gender like that. 'discedenda' would need to agree with opus, which is neuter. So 'discedendum'.

I would use something like "necesse est mihi egredi" instead.

User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California
Contact:

Post by benissimus »

I don't see why you would say opus est mihi discedendum. This literally translates to something like ''the need must be departed by me'', if discedo is even transitive. I would think the phrase would be better said opus est mihi discedendo (discedendi) ''there is need to me of leaving'' or even opus est mihi discedere ''there is need for me to leave''. I agree with Titus on the matter of gender, though there may have been some confusion as to what the gerundive was modifying so I can't blame you there. That is my two cents on the phrase anyway.
Last edited by benissimus on Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae

ingrid70
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:29 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post by ingrid70 »

according to my grammar, opus est takes either a noun in the ablative or an infinitive/aci; no mention of using a gerundive with it.

Ingrid

User avatar
ptran
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Portland ME

Post by ptran »

Let's also not overlook the use of "debeo" with the infinitive to express necessity or obligation. The idiom "opus est" is use with a dative and infinitive, accusative and infinitive, or (rare) the genitve of the thing needed but usually only when that thing is a neuter singular noun. There are a few ways to express the necessity of an action in Latin, and some of them are the impersonal construction like "opus est".

oportet ( +inf.)
necesse est (+inf.)
opus est (+ varia)
debeo (+inf.)

Aurelia
Textkit Fan
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:58 am
Location: Montana
Contact:

Post by Aurelia »

Okay, I think I will use "debeo discedere." I haven't studied impersonal verbs in a while, maybe I should get my notes out. :wink:

Iacobus Mathematicus
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:33 pm

Post by Iacobus Mathematicus »

Aurelia wrote:Okay, I think I will use "debeo discedere." I haven't studied impersonal verbs in a while, maybe I should get my notes out. :wink:
One other thing to consider, according to Bradley's Arnold anyway, is that the debeo construction is to be used when the obligation is to others, while oportet implies the obligation is binding on one's own self.

pax,
Iacobus Mathematicus

Aurelia
Textkit Fan
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:58 am
Location: Montana
Contact:

Post by Aurelia »

okay then what should I use? opus est mihi...discedere?

Titus Marius Crispus
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:00 am
Location: San Antonio, TX, USA

Post by Titus Marius Crispus »

According to what Iacobus said, it seems like 'oportet mihi discedere' would be better.

Discedere is transitive, by the way, as it can also mean to part or separate.

Post Reply