Papyrus Letter

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Barry Hofstetter
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Papyrus Letter

Post by Barry Hofstetter » Mon May 06, 2019 12:15 pm

Nice post of a letter at the Sententia Antiquae blog:

https://sententiaeantiquae.com/2019/05/ ... jFKq-sUM_8

Fans of the apostle Paul will note this phrase in particular, γινώσκειν σε οὖν θέλω...

And it's hard not to think of 2 Tim 4:13, τὸν φαιλόνην ὃν ἀπέλιπον ἐν Τρῳάδι παρὰ Κάρπῳ ἐρχόμενος φέρε, καὶ τὰ βιβλία μάλιστα τὰς μεμβράνας.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
The Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

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jeidsath
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Re: Papyrus Letter

Post by jeidsath » Mon May 06, 2019 2:14 pm

Πανίσκο[ς] τῇ σοιμβ[ί]ῳ μου Πλουτογενίᾳ μητρὶ τῆς θυγατρός μου πλῖστα χαίρειν. πρὸ μὲν <πάντων> εὔχομέ σοι τὴν ὁλοκληρία[ν] καθ᾿ ἑκάστην ἡμέραν παρὰ τοῖς θεοῖς πᾶ⟦τρ⟧σι. γινώσκειν σε οὖν θέλω, ἀδελφή, ὅτι ἐν Κόπτωι αἰ⟦ε⟧μίναμεν ἐνγὺς τῆς ἀδελφῆς ⟦μου⟧ σου καὶ τῶν τέκνων αὐτῆς, ὅπως μὴ λυπηθῇς ἐρχομένη ἐν τῇ Κόπτῳ· εἰσὶ γὰρ ἐνθάδε οἱ ἀδελφοί σου. ὅπερ καὶ σὺ πάντως βούλῃ αὐτὴν ἀσπάσαστε {αὐτὴν} πολλά, τοῖς θεοῖς εὔχετ[ε] καθ᾿ ἡμέραν βουλομένη σε ἀσπάζε[σ]θαι μετὰ τῆς μητρός σου. δ[ε]ξαμ[έ]νη οὖν μου τὰ γράμ <μα>-τα ταῦτα ποίησόν σου τὰ <κατὰ> χέρα, ὅπως, ἐὰν πέμψω ἐπὶ σέν, ταχέως ἔλθῃς. καὶ ἔνεγκον ἐρχομένη ποκάρια ἐριδίων δέκα, ἐλεῶν κεράμια ἕξ, στά⟦υ⟧γματος κεράμια τέσσερα, καὶ τὸ ὅπλον μου τὸ κενὸν μόνον, τὸ κασίδιόν μου. φέρε καὶ τὰ λογχία μου. φέρε καὶ τὰ τοῦ παπυλίωνος σκεύη. ἐὰν εὕρητε εὐκερίαν, μετὰ ἀνθρώπων καλῶν δεῦτε. ἐρχέστω μεθ᾿ ἡμῶν Νόννος. ἔνεγκον ἡμῶν πάντα τὰ ἡμάτια ἐρχομένη. ἔνεγκον ἐρχομένη σου τὰ χρυσία, ἀλλὰ μὴ αὐτὰ φορέσῃς ἐν τῷ πλο[ί]ῳ. ἀσπάζεμε τὴν κυρίαν μου θυγατέραν Ἡλιοδώραν. ἀσπάζετε ὑμᾶς Ἑρμίας.
This made for an enjoyable read this morning, thanks.

εὔχομέ -- 1st person sing?
ἀσπάσαστε -- inf?
εὔχετ[ε] -- 3rd person present referring to the sister?
εὕρητε -- 2nd person sing or pl?
ἀσπάζεμε -- 1st person sing?
ἀσπάζετε -- 3rd person referring to Hermias

ὅτι ἐν Κόπτωι αἰ⟦ε⟧μίναμεν ἐνγὺς τῆς ἀδελφῆς ⟦μου⟧ σου καὶ τῶν τέκνων αὐτῆς, ὅπως μὴ λυπηθῇς ἐρχομένη ἐν τῇ Κόπτῳ -- what is the emphasis there? Is he just saying that she'll be close to her sister, or that he's providing protection for her in-laws, and that they are still alive and well?

δ[ε]ξαμ[έ]νη οὖν μου τὰ γράμ <μα>-τα ταῦτα ποίησόν σου τὰ <κατὰ> χέρα, ὅπως, ἐὰν πέμψω ἐπὶ σέν, ταχέως ἔλθῃς -- He's telling her to be be ready for his summons, and to have everything packed? It's interesting that he doesn't simply ask her to come in this letter.

ποκάρια ἐριδίων δέκα
ἐλεῶν κεράμια ἕξ
στά⟦υ⟧γματος κεράμια τέσσερα
καὶ τὸ ὅπλον μου τὸ κενὸν μόνον
τὸ κασίδιόν μου
φέρε καὶ τὰ λογχία μου
φέρε καὶ τὰ τοῦ παπυλίωνος σκεύη

What a strange list. It seems somewhat martial.

"τὰ τοῦ παπυλίωνος σκεύη" -- Is this camping or butterfly-hunting equipment?

ἐὰν εὕρητε εὐκερίαν, μετὰ ἀνθρώπων καλῶν δεῦτε -- I assume that this is not saying "hire a bunch of people/slaves" but to find passage on a ship with respectable people.

ἐρχέστω μεθ᾿ ἡμῶν Νόννος -- slave or son?

ἔνεγκον ἡμῶν πάντα τὰ ἡμάτια ἐρχομένη. ἔνεγκον ἐρχομένη σου τὰ χρυσία, ἀλλὰ μὴ αὐτὰ φορέσῃς ἐν τῷ πλο[ί]ῳ -- He really seems to be directing her to pack up everything, so why the earlier list?
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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Re: Papyrus Letter

Post by ἑκηβόλος » Mon May 06, 2019 2:27 pm

Besides being the usual window into the daily life and language of ordinary people, the historical value of the Paniskos archive is its mention of a revolt during the time of Diocletian.

Coincidentially, my papyrology lecturer (now professor) had previously written a paper about it, so she had me read that papyrus archive for the masters option I took. Funnily enough, despite there being a much greater number of extant Greek texts than Middle Egyptian texts from ancient Egypt, that was the only Greek that I did among the more regular Egyptology and Coptology subjects.

Nobbs, A., 'A Revolt in the Time of Diocletian: the Evidence of the Paniskos Papyri', Ancient Society 16 (1986), 132-6
[Unfortunately that article was published too early to be available online from Peeters]
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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Re: Papyrus Letter

Post by Barry Hofstetter » Mon May 06, 2019 4:35 pm

jeidsath wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:14 pm

This made for an enjoyable read this morning, thanks.
I thought so too, which is why I shared it.
εὔχομέ -- 1st person sing?
ἀσπάσαστε -- inf?
εὔχετ[ε] -- 3rd person present referring to the sister?
εὕρητε -- 2nd person sing or pl?
ἀσπάζεμε -- 1st person sing?
ἀσπάζετε -- 3rd person referring to Hermias
And evidence that in Greek of this period -αι was prounced like -ε.
ὅτι ἐν Κόπτωι αἰ⟦ε⟧μίναμεν ἐνγὺς τῆς ἀδελφῆς ⟦μου⟧ σου καὶ τῶν τέκνων αὐτῆς, ὅπως μὴ λυπηθῇς ἐρχομένη ἐν τῇ Κόπτῳ -- what is the emphasis there? Is he just saying that she'll be close to her sister, or that he's providing protection for her in-laws, and that they are still alive and well?

δ[ε]ξαμ[έ]νη οὖν μου τὰ γράμ <μα>-τα ταῦτα ποίησόν σου τὰ <κατὰ> χέρα, ὅπως, ἐὰν πέμψω ἐπὶ σέν, ταχέως ἔλθῃς -- He's telling her to be be ready for his summons, and to have everything packed? It's interesting that he doesn't simply ask her to come in this letter.
Reading these types of letters, which were intended only for the recipient(s) and not for a wider audience, is often like hearing one side of a telephone conversation. It requires context to make full sense out of it.
ποκάρια ἐριδίων δέκα
ἐλεῶν κεράμια ἕξ
στά⟦υ⟧γματος κεράμια τέσσερα
καὶ τὸ ὅπλον μου τὸ κενὸν μόνον
τὸ κασίδιόν μου
φέρε καὶ τὰ λογχία μου
φέρε καὶ τὰ τοῦ παπυλίωνος σκεύη

What a strange list. It seems somewhat martial.
I believe ἐκηβολος has provided the answer to that one.
"τὰ τοῦ παπυλίωνος σκεύη" -- Is this camping or butterfly-hunting equipment?
:lol: πᾱπῠλιών, ῶνος, ὁ, = Lat. papilo, tent, Sammelb.1.3 (iii A.D.), Edict.Diocl.19.4; PMich. III 214.26 (iii A.D.), also παπυλεών Procop.Pers.2.21; gen. sg. written παπυλαιῶνος, Suid.

Liddell, H. G., Scott, R., Jones, H. S., & McKenzie, R. (1996). A Greek-English lexicon (p. 1302). Oxford: Clarendon Press.
ἐὰν εὕρητε εὐκερίαν, μετὰ ἀνθρώπων καλῶν δεῦτε -- I assume that this is not saying "hire a bunch of people/slaves" but to find passage on a ship with respectable people.
That's how I took it, but apart from context, it's the telephone thing again.
ἐρχέστω μεθ᾿ ἡμῶν Νόννος -- slave or son?

ἔνεγκον ἡμῶν πάντα τὰ ἡμάτια ἐρχομένη. ἔνεγκον ἐρχομένη σου τὰ χρυσία, ἀλλὰ μὴ αὐτὰ φορέσῃς ἐν τῷ πλο[ί]ῳ -- He really seems to be directing her to pack up everything, so why the earlier list?
Telephone. We can only assume it made sense to him and his recipient.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
The Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

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Re: Papyrus Letter

Post by ἑκηβόλος » Tue May 07, 2019 5:39 am

There is a little background on the archive on Trismegistos, and some information on papyrus.info.

The Wiki article on Lucius Domitius Domitianus is here.

@Joel for your orthography questions, in this presentation of the text, you can click on the "Text irregularities" button to see a full list.

The background given in the Journal of Egyptian Archeology is interesting if you have institutional access.
Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:35 pm
ἔνεγκον ἡμῶν πάντα τὰ ἡμάτια ἐρχομένη. ἔνεγκον ἐρχομένη σου τὰ χρυσία, ἀλλὰ μὴ αὐτὰ φορέσῃς ἐν τῷ πλο[ί]ῳ -- He really seems to be directing her to pack up everything, so why the earlier list?
Telephone. We can only assume it made sense to him and his recipient.
I think the force of μὴ αὐτὰ φορέσῃς ἐν τῷ πλο[ί]ῳ is "don't go flashing your jewellery about on public transport". I think the former list was what he (Paniskos) needed himself, and these later items are what he thinks she will need when staying with her relatives.
jeidsath wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:14 pm
ἐρχέστω μεθ᾿ ἡμῶν Νόννος -- slave or son?
Person number 341680.
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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