Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
- Constantinus Philo
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Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
I think this is an incorporation: εν ω γαρ αν τις πράγματι μη πειθηται τω ευ λέγοντι αμαρτησεται δηπου.
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- Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
What do you mean by "incorporation?"
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Invorporation is inclusion of the antecedent into its relative clause like here πράγματι is included into rel. cl. starting with ω.
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- Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Okay, I thought so, most grammars call it "attraction." It would help if you posted more context with your questions:
ειʼ δέ τις πρὸς ταῦτα λέγοι ὅτι τῷ τυράννῳ ἔξεστι μὴ πείθεσθαι τοῖς ὀρθῶς λέγουσι, καὶ πῶς ἄν, ἔφη, ἐξείη μὴ πείθεσθαι, ἐπικειμένης γε ζημίας, ἐάν τις τῷ εὖ λέγοντι μὴ πείθηται; ἐν ᾧ γὰρ ἄν τις πράγματι μὴ πείθηται τῷ εὖ λέγοντι, ἁμαρτήσεται δήπου, ἁμαρτάνων δὲ ζημιωθήσεται.
And no, I don't think it is, rather ἐν ᾧ ... πράγματι, the relative is used adjectively with πράγματι.
ειʼ δέ τις πρὸς ταῦτα λέγοι ὅτι τῷ τυράννῳ ἔξεστι μὴ πείθεσθαι τοῖς ὀρθῶς λέγουσι, καὶ πῶς ἄν, ἔφη, ἐξείη μὴ πείθεσθαι, ἐπικειμένης γε ζημίας, ἐάν τις τῷ εὖ λέγοντι μὴ πείθηται; ἐν ᾧ γὰρ ἄν τις πράγματι μὴ πείθηται τῷ εὖ λέγοντι, ἁμαρτήσεται δήπου, ἁμαρτάνων δὲ ζημιωθήσεται.
And no, I don't think it is, rather ἐν ᾧ ... πράγματι, the relative is used adjectively with πράγματι.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Cuncta mortalia incerta...
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Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Incorporation and attraction are not the same thing. See Smyth 2536-2538.
2536. Incorporation.—The antecedent taken up into the relative clause is said to be incorporated. The relative and antecedent then stand in the same case, the relative agreeing adjectively with its antecedent. If the antecedent is a substantive, it often stands at the end of the relative clause, and commonly has no article. An antecedent in the nominative or accusative is more frequently incorporated than one in the genitive or dative.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
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Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
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Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
That is εν ω πραγματι is equivalent to εν τούτω πράγματι εν ω γαρ αν τις μη πειθηται....in this case it is invorporation.
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Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Since this is a conditional or general relative clause, it would probably be εν πράγματι εν ω...
But yes this is incorporation without attraction.
But yes this is incorporation without attraction.
Bill Walderman
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Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Deleted as duplicating Hylander.
Last edited by mwh on Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
It would be a mistake to think of ἐν ᾧ γὰρ ἄν τις πράγματι μὴ πείθηται as in any way abnormal.
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Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Exactly how I would have explained it, but apparently I've been using non-standard terminology, and so appreciate the clarification and the reference in Smyth as well.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Cuncta mortalia incerta...
Cuncta mortalia incerta...