....LLPSI Cap XLV

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pmda
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....LLPSI Cap XLV

Post by pmda »

Cum cives Romani alii super alios trucidentur, exsulatum eant, bona amittant, quid spei melioris Latinis portendi? Si se audiant, domum omnes inde abituros!'

Not sure what alii super alios means in this context.

While some Roman citizens are slaughtered over others, they go into exile, they scatter? their goods, what portends greater hope for the Latini? (what is of greater hope to the Latini ?)

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: ....LLPSI Cap XLV

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

pmda wrote:Cum cives Romani alii super alios trucidentur, exsulatum eant, bona amittant, quid spei melioris Latinis portendi? Si se audiant, domum omnes inde abituros!'

Not sure what alii super alios means in this context.

While some Roman citizens are slaughtered over others, they go into exile, they scatter? their goods, what portends greater hope for the Latini? (what is of greater hope to the Latini ?)
To answer your main question:

b. Of that which is over and above a certain number or quantity, over, above, beyond, upon, besides, in addition to (not freq. till after the Aug. period): quod alii super alios legati venirent speculaturi, i. e. in rapid succession, constantly, Liv. 42, 25, 8:

Lewis, C. T., & Short, C. (1891). Harpers’ Latin Dictionary (p. 1803). New York; Oxford: Harper & Brothers; Clarendon Press.

I would render "Since Roman citizens are being slaughtered one after another, since they go into exile and lose their property, what better hope is indicated to the Latins? If they hear him, all will return home from there..."

I had to look at the unedited Livy fully to make sense of this:

sin suos eius paeniteat, quippe qui alii super alios trucidentur, exulatum eant, bona amittant, quid spei melioris Latinis portendi? si se audiant, domum suam quemque inde abituros neque magis observaturos diem concilii, quam ipse, qui indixerit, observet.

I was wondering what made sense of the infinitives and subjunctives here, and then the little Latin bird in my head said "indirect statement earlier in the context," and sure enough:

iam magna Tarquini auctoritas inter Latinorum proceres erat, cum in diem certam ut ad lucum Ferentinae conveniant indicit...

From Livy 1.50.1ff.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter

Cuncta mortalia incerta...

mwh
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Re: ....LLPSI Cap XLV

Post by mwh »

pmda, you realize that the first three verbs all belong to the cum clause and are grammatically parallel with one another? Latin doesn’t need to put “and” between them.

The se, as well as the acc. and infin. construction, shows that this is indirect statement: If they listen to him (the speaker), they’ll all get to go home. This answers the quid spei melioris … ? question. There's no need to refer to the original Livy to make sense of it.

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: ....LLPSI Cap XLV

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

mwh wrote:pmda, you realize that the first three verbs all belong to the cum clause and are grammatically parallel with one another? Latin doesn’t need to put “and” between them.

The se, as well as the acc. and infin. construction, shows that this is indirect statement: If they listen to him (the speaker), they’ll all get to go home. This answers the quid spei melioris … ? question. There's no need to refer to the original Livy to make sense of it.
For someone of your vast erudition (you know, that's actually NOT sarcastic) maybe not, but edited sentences out of context often give me fits, so it helps me, and I think maybe others as well.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter

Cuncta mortalia incerta...

mwh
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Re: ....LLPSI Cap XLV

Post by mwh »

Sure, it’s always better to read the original in context than a modified version in isolation, but the modified version makes perfectly good sense as it stands, and for a beginner is easier to understand than the original would be. That’s the whole point of it.

And enough with the "vast erudition," please, sarcastically or not. I learn as I go, as I trust we all do.

pmda
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Re: ....LLPSI Cap XLV

Post by pmda »

Many thanks. I've been neglecting my Latin a bit as of late and probably should have spent more time on this before submitting a question.

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