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C. S. Bartholomew
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Re: Asking help for answers

Post by C. S. Bartholomew »

Mindy,

How would you translate

καὶ ἦλθεν τοῦ πολεμῆσαι ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ Μαγεδων

What case form is Μαγεδων. Why?


1Chr. 8:8 καὶ Σααρημ ἐγέννησεν ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ Μωαβ μετὰ τὸ ἀποστεῖλαι αὐτὸν Ωσιμ καὶ τὴν Βααδα γυναῖκα αὐτοῦ.

2Chr. 35:22 καὶ οὐκ ἀπέστρεψεν Ιωσιας τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ ἀπ᾿ αὐτοῦ, ἀλλ᾿ ἢ πολεμεῖν αὐτὸν ἐκραταιώθη καὶ οὐκ ἤκουσεν τῶν λόγων Νεχαω διὰ στόματος θεοῦ καὶ ἦλθεν τοῦ πολεμῆσαι ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ Μαγεδων.
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Mindy

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

Very good. But δὲ should be translated as "but" or "and." "Then," in a temporal sense, is signaled with other words. It's something that will make more sense with reading.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Mindy

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C. S. Bartholomew
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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by C. S. Bartholomew »

καὶ ἦλθεν τοῦ πολεμῆσαι ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ Μαγεδων
Mindy wrote:
And he went to the war in the plain of Magedon.

Μαγεδων is Genitive, because it describes the plain.

The Hebrew word is valley instead of plain.
Right!

ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ Μαγεδδαους translates בבקעת מגדו

where בקעת is in the construct state.

2Chr. 35:22
ב ‎Particle preposition
בקעת ‎Noun feminine singular construct
מגדו Noun properName
C. Stirling Bartholomew

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C. S. Bartholomew
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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

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4. He wishes to lead the men out of danger.
τούς ανθρώπους έθέλει άγειν έκ τόυ κινδύνου.
The article τόυ κινδύνου is a tough call. I looked at a bunch of examples in TLG. After doing my own research I looked at the answer key and the article was in parentheses indicating contextual issues which could not be determined. Within the Cognitive Framework, the article indicates that substantive is mentally accessible not necessarily having been introduced within the textual co-text. So the article could be deleted. I found several examples where it was. It really has to do with how the narrator wants to frame the discourse. Article usage is beyond the scope of Crosby & Schaeffer.
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jeidsath
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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

Mindy wrote:p. 12 (c) Complete:
1. τά δέ δένδρα ήν (linking verb) μίκρά.

2. ίππους δ άγετε είς τόν ποταμόν (singular).

3. έν τώ σταδίω (singular) ήσαν οί αδελφοί.
Above are good.
Mindy wrote:(d) Write in Greek:
1. The stones were beautiful.
οί λίθους ήσαν καλούς.
ῆσαν takes a nominative on both sides of the verb. λίθους is accusative.
Mindy wrote:2. The brave messenger was hostile to the general.
ό άγγελος αγαθόν πολέμιος ήν τώ στρατηγώ (singular).
ἀγαθόν should be nominative masculine to agree with the messenger. Also take note of this difference:

ὁ ἀγαθός ἄγγελος -- the brave messenger
ὁ ἄγγελος ὁ ἀγαθός -- the brave messenger
ὁ ἄγγελος ἀγαθός -- the messenger that is brave
Mindy wrote:3. The friends have fine horses.
οί φίλους έχουσιν αγαθούς ίππους.
φίλους is acc. pl. They are the subject of the sentence and should be nominative.
Mindy wrote:4. He wishes to lead the men out of danger.
τούς ανθρώπους έθέλει άγειν έκ τόυ κινδύνου.
Good.
Mindy wrote:5. The brothers were hostile to the general.
οί αδελφοί πολέμιοι ήσαν τώ στρατηγώ.
Good.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Mindy

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

ον — good, but remember that while it can be neuter nominative or accusative it would only be masculine accusative

ῳ — good, but you forgot one

ου — good, but you forgot one

οις — good, but you forgot one

α — Yes, it can be a nominative neuter plural, but also an accusative neuter plural. (For feminines, see the next section)

Thank you for changing the topic title.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Mindy

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jeidsath
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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

All good except for ους, which I missed the first time.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Mindy

Thanks

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

All of these look good to me.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Mindy

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

Good. And you were right to notice that τα δενδρα takes a singular verb.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Mindy

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

Mindy wrote:What were written on the tablet?
Image

Why don't you try writing out the Greek that you can recognize in the tablet first, and then I (or someone else) will correct.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Mindy

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

Here are the first two lines:

ϹΟΦΟΥΠΑΡΑΝΔΡΟϹΠΡΟϹΔΕΧΟΥϹΥΜΒΟΥΛΙΑΝ
ΜΗΠΑϹΙΝΕΙΚΗΤΟΙϹΦΙΛΟΙϹΠΙϹΤΕΥΕΤΑΙ

We'd write that today as:

σοφοῦ παρ’ ἀνδρὸς προσδέχου συμβουλίαν
μὴ πᾶσιν εἰκῇ τοῖς φίλοις πιστεύετε

"Accept advice from a wise man."
"Don't trust all of your friends heedlessly."

You were correct to transcribe ΦΙΛΟΙΣΠΙϹΤΕΥΕΤΑΙ, however the schoolmaster has made a mistake here. It should be ΠΙϹΤΕΥΕΤΕ. The rest of the lines are an attempt of the student to copy them. With some errors.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Mindy

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

Yes. Ϲ is the "lunate sigma."

It would have been early centuries AD in Egypt, and that makes a girl less likely, though not impossible. Poor handwriting for a girl, I'd think.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Mindy

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

All good, except the first. δε comes second in a sentence.

I don’t know the answer to the question about ΒοΥ. It looks like some ligatures that I’ve seen in medieval manuscripts, but I don’t know if there is any relation. It may just be a correction.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

C. S. Bartholomew
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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by C. S. Bartholomew »

jeidsath wrote:All good, except the first. δε comes second in a sentence.
LSJ
POSITION of δέ. It usu. stands second: hence freq. between Art. and Subst. or Prep. and case; but also after Subst., or words forming a connected notion, hence it may stand third, γυναῖκα πιστὴν δ' ἐν δόμοις εὕροι A.Ag.606, cf. Th.411, Eu.531, S.Ph.959, etc.; fourth, Id.OT485, E.Hel.688, A.Pr.323,383, etc.; fifth, ib. 401codd.; even sixth, Epigen.7(codd. Poll.); so in Prose after a neg., οὐχ ὑπ' ἐραστοῦ δέ, to avoid confusion between οὐ δέ and οὐδέ, Pl.Phdr.227c.
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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Post by jeidsath »

So you can do:

τοὺς δ' ἵππους ὁ ἄγγελος...
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Mindy

Thanks

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