Ovid Study Group

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:23 am

Just out of curiosity, would there be any interest in an Ovid study group?
I have been thinking a lot about this

I don't know exactly what works of Ovid we could concentrate on as he wrote so much.
If there is any interest in this, let me know!

Dean

Yvonne · Post by **Yvonne** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:50 pm

I'd be interested. Although my Latin is very new and I probably wouldn't be able to contribute much. His Metamorphoses would be good because they are such an important part of Western Lit, but his Amores would probably be more fun.

-Yvonne

Evito · Post by **Evito** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:26 pm

I have always been and still am very fond of Ovids Tristia, five chapters of exile poetry in hexameters and pentameters.

The Metamorphoses are somewhat lighter and more playful, as are of course his poems about love, but I do not believe there is any work that can really compare to the outstanding, humorous and yet very emotional Tristia.

I have the Oxford Edition right here, and I've spent many hours reading i it already. While reading, I noticed I had trouble correctly translating the first 50 to 100 lines, which I read at a very low speed, about 10 lines per hour. Then later on, I could speed up to -now- almost 40 lines per hour, and I have less trouble understanding the difficult things. When trying to read some verses from the Metamorphoses last week, I went through it with about 75 verses per hour and it all seems quite easy now.

Let me give you an example of his excellent work:
[Tristia, I, III, 77-86]

Tum vero exoritur clamor gemitusque meorum,
et feriunt maestae pectore nuda manus.
Tum vero coniunx umeris abeuntis inhaerens
miscuit haec lacrimis tristia verba meis:
'non potes avelli. Simul hinc, simul ibimus:', inquit,
'te sequar et coniunx exulis exul ero.
et mihi facta via est, et me capit ultima tellus:
accedam profugae sarcina parva rati.
te iubet e patria discedere Caesaris ira,
me piets. pietas haec mihi Caesar erit."

I will not translate this into English right now, because I do not yet feel comfortable enough with translating Latin into English to do so let alone give you a good translation. Maybe someone will do it for me?

I did translate it into Dutch of course, but I don't think there will be many people who would care for a Dutch translation.

Ulpianus · Post by **Ulpianus** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:54 pm

Tum vero exoritur clamor gemitusque meorum,
et feriunt maestae pectore nuda manus.
Tum vero coniunx umeris abeuntis inhaerens
miscuit haec lacrimis tristia verba meis:
'non potes avelli. Simul hinc, simul ibimus:', inquit,
'te sequar et coniunx exulis exul ero.
et mihi facta via est, et me capit ultima tellus:
accedam profugae sarcina parva rati.
te iubet e patria discedere Caesaris ira,
me piet[a]s. pietas haec mihi Caesar erit.

A roughish translation for anyone who needs one, though I don't say it's a good one (any corrections gratefully received). Ovid is about to go into exile having offended Caesar (by publishing ars amatoria iirc):

Then the shouting starts; my family weeping; mourning hands beat on the naked breast. And my wife, clinging to my departing shoulders, mixes these sad words with my tears: "You cannot be pulled asunder from me. Together; we shall go from here together," she says. "I will follow you, and be an exile's exiled wife. My path is mapped, and the land at the end of the world takes hold of me [?]: I shall add a little cargo to the ship as it flees. Caesar's anger is what commands you to leave your homeland: for me, it's dutiful love. This duty will be Caesar for me."

ingrid70 · Post by **ingrid70** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:28 pm

Evito wrote:I have always been and still am very fond of Ovids Tristia, five chapters of exile poetry in hexameters and pentameters.

//

I did translate it into Dutch of course, but I don't think there will be many people who would care for a Dutch translation.

You'd be surprised

.

Ingrid

Moerus · Post by **Moerus** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:40 pm

I did translate it into Dutch of course, but I don't think there will be many people who would care for a Dutch translation.

O jawel, als je ze op de computer hebt staan, mag je me ze gerust eens sturen. Er zitten hier wel een aantal Nederlandstaligen hoor, je moet ze alleen weten te vinden tussen de bosjes en het struikgewas.

For those who don't know Dutch and would know what I said, you should learn Dutch!
But because I am a friendly man, I will translate what I said in Dutch, but you can only read it if you promess to learn Dutch. If you don't knoiw Dutch and you have no intention to learn it, you have to translate the text above yourself!

I said that there are a few Dutch - speakers here, so she can mail her translation to me if sche want to.

Greetz,
groetjes,

ik

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:26 am

Soemthing that I remember very well from the Tristia because I had this to translate in class.

Cum subit illius tristissima noctis imago,
Qua mihi supremum tempus in Urbe fuit,
Cum repeto noctem, qua tot mihi cara reliqui,
Labitur ex oculis nunc quoque gutta meis.
Iam prope lux aderat, qua me discedere Caesar
Finibus extremae iusserat Ausoniae.
Nec spatium nec mens fuerat satis apta parandi;
Torpuerant longa pectora nostra mora.

The very words that Ovid uses makes this passage quite sad.

Evito · Post by **Evito** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:32 am

Dean wrote:Soemthing that I remember very well from the Tristia because I had this to translate in class.

Cum subit illius tristissima noctis imago,
Qua mihi supremum tempus in Urbe fuit,
Cum repeto noctem, qua tot mihi cara reliqui,
Labitur ex oculis nunc quoque gutta meis.
Iam prope lux aderat, qua me discedere Caesar
Finibus extremae iusserat Ausoniae.
Nec spatium nec mens fuerat satis apta parandi;
Torpuerant longa pectora nostra mora.

The very words that Ovid uses makes this passage quite sad.

When comes into mind the o so sad image of that night,
in which the last time in the City took place for me,
when I remember the night, on which I left behind so many dear to me,
flows from my eyes now too a tear.
The light had then almost come, by which Caesar had commanded me
to leave the borders of the furthest Italy.
Nor time nor spirit had there been to make enough preparations;
the long waiting had paralysed our chests.

Ulpianus, I really like that translation of yours.

Post by **Jeff Tirey** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:31 pm

Dean wrote:Just out of curiosity, would there be any interest in an Ovid study group?
I have been thinking a lot about this
I don't know exactly what works of Ovid we could concentrate on as he wrote so much.
If there is any interest in this, let me know!

Dean

Hi Dean,

If you would agree to be the group leader, we can set you up with a study group. We can always make the start date sometime in March, and if there are enough subscribers the group can move forward and if not, it can be delayed or cancelled.

Also, I do have a very nice Ovid reader waiting in the wings.

let me or William know.

thanks,
jeff

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:36 am

Jeff,

That would be great if we had an Ovid reader. That was my biggest worry...the reading material!
It will also be as big a challenge for me as for everyone else.
Maybe we could start in late March or early April.
Let me know either through the forum or my email
dhm323@comcast.net

Thanks!

Dean

Evito · Post by **Evito** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:21 am

what is going to be studied exactly?

Mongoose42 · Post by **Mongoose42** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:41 pm

I am a student of Latin in a form of self study. While franticaly looking for an online dictionary, I stumbled upon this forum. I had already intended to translate Metamorphosis and am very interested in taking part in a study group, though as Yvonne said I am not a master of the Latin and may not be able to contribute immensly.

Evito · Post by **Evito** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:34 pm

talking about dictionaries; www.latijnnederlands.nl is a very good one for Dutch people, I recommend the Words-program for English people (accepts all forms of any word)

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:28 am

It's funny but if I sit there and look at the Dutch language on this web page about the Latin to Dutch dictionary I can almost read it. Must have been because I had a German crash reading course. I still remeber some of it.

Dean

Artemidoros · Post by **Artemidoros** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:03 am

I would also be interested in setting an Ovid reading group. I am a bit self-taught, and I have been reading Cicero lately. It would be great to change! I was wondering.. does anyone know if there is any book (texkit online) available with comments and notes? (such as for the Odyssey). I see there is a litteral translation of Metamorphoses, but I would also like some help with difficult passages, explanatory notes...

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:12 am

You asked~~does anyone know if there is any book (texkit online) available with comments and notes?~~ Yes there will be one in the next few weeks I hope

It has a vocabulary and notes

by Allen and Greenough.
I was just thinking maybe we could do a few passages enough to last a month or so. That way you would at least be exposed to Ovid's style.
Ovid is somewhat easier than some of the other poets. I was exposed to Ovid (and the other elegiac poets: Catullus, Tibullus, and Propertius) before Vergil.
I think Ovid is a poet to be enjoyed...After all it is...

Ovid with Love!

Artemidoros · Post by **Artemidoros** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:18 am

Great! Yes, I think Ovid is a good starting point. I once tried Lucretius: he is sooo difficult!

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:35 am

Stay tuned><More details to follow!
I just ordered a copy of the text!!!
Best Regards.
Dean

cadoro · Post by **cadoro** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:04 am

Being well and truly hitched I have no practical use for it but I am thoroughly enjoying a
version of the "Art of Love" (Dating is the more appropriate term) which is pocket sized and displays the necessary vocabulary line for line,together with a FOLD-OUT vocabulary at the end of the book so you can also refer to that while you are studying
The book is edited by Graves Haydon Thompson and seems to be still be in print
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 4?v=glance
It amazes me to see the creative way Ovid will insert a Greek myth in the book with the flimsiest of pretexts.He will say for example it is difficult for any mortal to catch the wing of Eros-as he flies about all the time-flight-flight of Icarus.But that must have been what his readers were expecting..
Ovid is a beautifully visual poet-his Metamorphoses blends and weaves tales together like a clever film technique.I'm up for a study group too.

Evito · Post by **Evito** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:44 am

Yes, it's a truely amazing piece of art, cadoro. Although I enjoy the Tristia more at the particular moment in time because of the way hexameters are followed by pentameters, the Metamorphoses truely are inspiring and beautiful. Fun too.

Post by **Jeff Tirey** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:07 pm

Dean wrote:Just out of curiosity, would there be any interest in an Ovid study group?
I have been thinking a lot about this
I don't know exactly what works of Ovid we could concentrate on as he wrote so much.
If there is any interest in this, let me know!

Dean

Hi Dean,

The Ovid reader is coming very soon. It's a pretty good reader by Allen and Greenough. It'll have selections from Metamorphoses, line notes and vocab.

Jeff

caeruleus · Post by **caeruleus** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:49 pm

[face=Verdana]Forum:

The one book to recommend around an Ovid study group for novices of Latin:

Title: Latin Via Ovid, A First Course, 2nd Edition, 1982
Authors: Norma Goldman and Jacob E. Nyenhuis

Analysis:

The treatise presents a smooth and sequential entry into abridged versions of the metamorphoses. Chapters are divided into sections of Dialogue, Reading, Vocabulary, Structure, Exercises, and Etymology.

Conclusion:

It (the book) represents a friendly gateway for novices of Classical Latin such as myself. Because of the treatise I have been able to ask acute and sensible questions to those on this site who are more experienced.

In addition, there is a supplementary workbook.[/face]

Caeruleus

JohnHerndon · Post by **JohnHerndon** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:00 am

Hi,

If you're currently running the Ovid reading group, please send me the selections from the Allen & Greenough edition you are using, and, if it is required of me, I will contribute translations.

Thanks.

Post by **Jeff Tirey** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:44 am

The Ovid reader has been photocopied and now scanned.. I'll be converting it to PDF shortly.

Once it's online, take a look at it and it'll be up to the group leader to choose to use the textbook.

Dean and others, starting thinking about when you would like to begin the group. My suggestion is sometime in late May, it seems like a long way off, but it'll give us time to market the group in the newsletter and for anyone in school, finals will be over (US).

When does the school year end in the UK?

Jeff

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:12 am

Hi All,

I am still interested in trying the Ovid Study Group if we have enough participants, but I don't think this is going to be too much of a problem.
I was thinking twenty at most.

I was just thinking...I had many Latin courses with Mrs. Parks as instructor. She said once that you don't know hardly what to teach to such a diverse group of students as we had. We had a major in Philosophy, a Theater major, an English major, and I think there was a History major and Mathmatics major in the class. Also two or three Classics majors. Kind of hard to figure out what to teach and what authors to read in a group that diverse!

I am still looking forward to moderating the group!!!

Dean

In nova fert animus mutatas dicere formas
corpora; di, coeptis (nam vos mutastis et illas)
adspirate meis primaque ab origine mundi
ad mea perpetuum deducite tempora carmen!

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