N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

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Amiros
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Re: N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

Post by Amiros » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:11 pm

Preliminary Exercise F

1. He killed himself with his own sword.
Sē gladiō suō interfēcit.

2. He has a garden which was given him by his friend.
Eī hortus, quī eī ab amīcō suō dātus est.

3. He bought the house for himself and his wife.
Domum suī et feminae suae ēmit.

4. I have never seen him himself, but I have seen his children.
Numquam eum ipsum vīdī, sed vīdī līberōs suōs.

5., His children ask him for bread, which he cannot give them.
Līberī eius eum rogant pānem, quem eīs dāre nōn potest.

6. He has given his children the bread which they asked him for.
Dedit līberīs suīs pānem, quem eum rogāverant.

7. They have ships and sailors, but they have not many harbours.
Habent nāvēs nautāsque, sed multōs portūs nōn habent.

8. He wished to conceal his opinion from me, but I asked his friends.
Volēbat sententiam suam mē cēlāre, sed amīcōs eius rogāvī.

9. Your Gauls fear Caesar and his army.
Gallī tuī timent Caesarem et legiōnem eius.

10. He led his army against the Gauls, and took their camp.
Legiōnem suum contrā Gallōs dūxit, et castra eōrum cēpit.

11. The citizens themselves wished to make him consul.
Cīvēs ipsī volēbant eum cōnsulem facere.

12. We have many friends, whom we do not often see.
Multōs amīcōs habēmus, quōs nōn saepe vidēmus.

13. I myself will give you his sword.
Ego ipse gladium eius tibi dābō.

14. We ourselves have many ships.
Nōs ipsī multās nāvēs habēmus.

15. He himself gave me his own sword.
Is ipse gladium ipsī mihi dēdit.
(Should eius come here before ipsī?)

16. I killed him, because he wished to make himself king.
Eum interfēcī, quod suum ipsum rēgem facere volēbat.
(I assume ipsum is needed in the subordinate clause, although the subject of the main clause is first person and therefore suum cannot refer to it anyway.)

17. I had many friends once, but now I have few.
Multōs amīcōs ōlim habēbam, sed nunc habeō paucōs.

18. I asked you for their bread.
Tē/Vōs pānem eōrum/eārum rogāvī.

19. They gave us their sailors and ships.
Nautās et nāvēs suās nōbīs dēdērunt.

20. We ourselves have been taught many things by him.
Nōs ipsī multa ab eō doctī sunt.
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Craig_Thomas
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Re: N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

Post by Craig_Thomas » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:58 am

2. He has a garden which was given him by his friend.
Eī hortus, quī eī ab amīcō suō dātus est.
Hortus is the subject here, so ab amīcō suō, with the reflexive adjective, means 'by its [i.e., the garden's] own friend'. You could either alter the subordinate clause to express the possession non-reflexively or alter the main clause to make 'he' its subject.
3. He bought the house for himself and his wife.
Domum suī et feminae suae ēmit.
Suī is genitive. I think you want the dative.
9. Your Gauls fear Caesar and his army.
Gallī tuī timent Caesarem et legiōnem eius.

10. He led his army against the Gauls, and took their camp.
Legiōnem suum contrā Gallōs dūxit, et castra eōrum cēpit.
Exercitus is the usual word for an army.
15. He himself gave me his own sword.
Is ipse gladium ipsī mihi dēdit.
(Should eius come here before ipsī?)
The sword here belongs to the subject of the sentence, so the reflexive possessive adjective should be used.
16. I killed him, because he wished to make himself king.
Eum interfēcī, quod suum ipsum rēgem facere volēbat.
(I assume ipsum is needed in the subordinate clause, although the subject of the main clause is first person and therefore suum cannot refer to it anyway.)
I don't know about this one. What you've written doesn't look right to me, but I'm not sure if it can be corrected by just leaving out suum or not.

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Re: N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

Post by adrianus » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:04 am

Craig_Thomas wrote:I don't know about this one.
Nonnè "Eum interfeci quod is se regem facere volebat." vel "Eum interfeci qui se facere vellet regem."
Here se refers to the subject of its own clause. (Direct reflexive, A&G §300.)
Hîc se pronomen subjectum clausulae suae spectat. (De pronomine reflexo et directo, inquire in A&G, sectionem trecentesimam.)
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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Re: N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

Post by Amiros » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:30 pm

I'm confused. I learned Latin with M&F's intensive course, and their explanation of the direct and indirect reflexive is different. M&F (p. 237) seem to be stricter when it comes to the rules determining the part of the sentence to which a reflexive would refer, while A&G's seems to be more like a guideline.

Moreover, M&F say that the intensive pronoun is used in addition to the reflexive make it a direct one, while A&G say that it comes instead of the indirect reflexive, and only by later authors instead of the direct one.
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adrianus
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Re: N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

Post by adrianus » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:30 pm

M&F, p.237, wrote:However, in subordinate subjunctive clauses and in indirect statement, the reflexive refers to the subject of the main clause and not to that of the clause in which it appears. This use is called the indirect reflexive.
N&H, p.40, wrote:Rule 7, In simple sentences "se" refers to the subject of its own clause. In Indirect Statement (Acc. with Inf.) use se with reference to the subject of the principal verb; i.e. the verb of 'saying.' 'Eum,' 'eos' must not be used for the speaker.
"eum interfeci quod is se facere volebat regem"

This is a clause inside a clause. In "is se facere volebat regem" the "se" in subclause "se facere regem" does refer to the subject of the verb of 'saying' in the subclause "is X volebat", in this case to the subject of the verb of wishing. It just so happens that here it is not the principal verb of the main clause. Nor is the "is x volebat" clause a case of indirect speech hanging off the main clause "eum interfeci".

Clausula intra clausulam hîc habes, quâ se pronomen ad subjectum verbi orationi obliquae serventem pertinet, etiamsi non ad subjectum verbi clausulae principalis. Nec exemplum orationis obliquae est clausula per "is X volebat" à clausulâ primâ pendens.
A&G, §300.2, Note, wrote:"Sometimes the person or thing to which the reflexive refers is not the grammatical subject of the main clause, though it is in effect the subject of discourse."
"He said that he had killed him because he wished to make himself king."
"Dixit se eum interfecisse quod is se facere voluisset regem." (nisi fallor)
I don't think you can avoid the ambiguity in this reported speech. Even this,
"Dixit se eum interfecisse qui se facere voluisset regem",
as well as the previous example, could mean "He said that he killed that man because that man wanted to make him (the killer) the king."

Ambiguitatem evitare non potes, ut opinor. Cum "Dixit se eum interfecisse qui se facere voluisset regem", significari potest hoc: "Locutor dixit se alium interfecisse quod alius voluisset ut locutorem fecisset regem."

Vide http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WmT6mS5v4dAC&pg=PA24 (pp.24-26)

Note that this is ambiguous in English, also. // Ambiguum et anglicé, nota.
"He said that he had killed him because he wished to make himself king."
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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Re: N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

Post by Amiros » Sun May 06, 2012 8:30 am

Preliminary Exercise G

1. A state which has a good king enjoys peace.
Cīvitas quae rēgem bonum habet pācem fruātur.
Is this a relative clause of characteristic? Should habet be habeat instead?

2. Relying on the courage of his soldiers, he led them against the enemy.
Virtūte mīlitum suōrum frētus, contrā hostēs eōs dūxit.

3. They died of fear.
Metū mortuī sunt.

4. Oxen feed on grass, and lions on flesh.
Bovēs gramine vescuntur, leōnēsque carne.

5. We use riches, and wish to get possession of them.
Dīvitiīs ūtimur, et volumus eīs potīrī.

6. Relying on his wings, Mercury had no need of a ship.
ālīs suīs frētus, Mercuriō nāve opus nōn erat.

7. A man who performs his duty is worthy of praise.
Dignus est laude quī officium suō fungātur.

8. The enemy wish to get possession of our camp.
Hostēs volunt campīs nostrīs potīrī.

9. Through his help I can now use my sword.
Auxiliō eius possum jam gladiō meō ūtī.

10. We have need of the soldiers we have asked him for.
Opus est nōbis mīlitibus quōs eum rogāvimus.

11. A man who is contented with little is worthy of a happy life.
Quī parvō contentus sit dignus est vitā beātā.

12. We shall often use the books which you have given us.
Saepe librīs ūtēmur, quōs nōbis dāvistī/is

13. You seem to me to be worthy of praise.
Vidēris mihi dignus laude.

14. We have no need of these ships.
Nōbis hīs nāvibus opus nōn est.

15. They attacked the city, relying on the courage of their soldiers.
Urbem aggressī sunt, virtūte mīlitum suōrum frētī.

16. I did this through the advice of Caius.
Cōnsiliō Caiī hoc fēcī.

17. By this courage he took the city.
Hāc virtūte urbem cēpit.

18. Did you use the riches which were given you?
Ūsusne es dīvitiīs quae tibi dātae erant?

19. Many men have died of hunger.
Multī virī fame mortuī sunt.

20. You, who perform your duties well, have many friends.
Tū, quī officia tua bene fungeris, multōs amīcōs habēs.
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Re: N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

Post by adrianus » Sun May 06, 2012 12:09 pm

1. Yes. The indicative for a particular state: "the state, which has a good king, is enjoying peace". And "pace (ablative) fruatur".
Ut dicis,—nisi aliqua civitas significatur, quae res hîc non pertinet. Pacis verbum ablativo casu, nota, cum ablativo servet frui verbum.

12. dedisti
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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Re: N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

Post by Amiros » Sun May 13, 2012 11:07 am

The next exercise is comprised of small chunks of prepositional phrases, and not real sentences. Sometimes its hard to understand the meaning because of lack of context.

It is rather long, so I will post it in two parts.

Preliminary Exercise H (pt.1)

1. Among the captives.
Apud captīvōs.

2. At the house of Caius.
Domī Caiī.

3. Over and above the dowry.
Super dōte.

4. Before his feet.
Ante pēdēs suōs/euis.

5. Without a ransom.
Sine pretiō.

6. From him.
Ab eō.

7. With his friends.
Cum amīcīs suīs/eius.

8. With you.
Tēcum/vōbiscum.

9. Because of his age.
Propter aetātem suam/eius.

10. Owing to his joy.
dēbitus/a/ī gaudiō (dat.) suō/eius.

11. Through fear.
Per metum.

12. Kind towards the poor.
Humanus/a/ī ergā pauperēs.

13. To advance towards the city.
ad urbem aggrēdī.

14. Through the river.
Per fluminem.

15. In the presence of the king.
Cōram rēge.

16. Through scouts.
Per explorātōrēs.

17. By the king.
Ab rēge.

18. From the fame of his deeds.
Gloriā actiōnum suōrum/eius.

19. From that time.
Ā tempore illō.

20. Out of the bravest soldiers.
Ē mīlitibus fortissimīs.

21. He was sent to him with gifts.
Cum dōnīs eī missus est.

22. As hostages.
(I'm not sure about this one.)

23. For so great a service.
Pro meritō majōre.

24. Instead of horses.
Ob equōs.

25. On the nearest hill.
In colle proximō.

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Re: N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

Post by adrianus » Sun May 13, 2012 2:38 pm

1. vel apud vel in vel inter
2. vel in domo Caii vel apud Caium vel ad Caium
3. vel urbem versús vel adversùs urbem
16. vel exploratoribus
17.vel a rege vel ab rege
18. vel ex eo/illo tempore
22. ut obsides

bene factum est, ut ego opinor discipulus ut tu.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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Re: N&H Prose Composition, preliminary exercises

Post by MatthaeusLatinus » Sun May 13, 2012 11:13 pm

14. no such word, should be flumen

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