About "wisdom" or "philosophy" in langua

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Kalailan
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About "wisdom" or "philosophy" in langua

Post by Kalailan » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:23 pm

1st of all, as a mere precaution,
I suggest that you do not read any further, Episcope, as to prevent any illness or other abnormal phenomenas due to the fact that this thread, amongst other things, is about hebrew too.
Moneo!

In hebrew i have found that there is a lot of wisdom "built in" the language itself.
Regardless of it being really "wise", it is more then a mechanism of communication.
as the topic implies, i did not start it to talk about hebrew. i started it because i wanted to know about other languages.
i will write about my second language.

In english, i have not found anything except a mechanism of communication.
English to me feels different to hebrew.
i do not want to use the word shallow, because it is would be misusing the word here.
What i feel is that it is more of a collection of words, derived from numerous sources, which together assemble the form of a language, without that "wisdom" i wrote about earlier on.

Now, make no mistake, i am not saying that this is the case, i'm saying thats what i feel is the case.
the purpose of this topic is for someone to enlighten me, not for me to say how disdainful i am of the english language.
My knowledge of english is not enough as to find anything beyond a communicating device in english, therefore i ask your help.

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Post by Kalailan » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:26 pm

and, Episcope, since you probably did read on despite of my warnings,
i have a question.
in one of your anti-hebraic sayings you described the hebrew alphabet as something that resembels dead spiders or so.
i ask you,
does This look so bad to you?
or maybe this writing is what you hate?
i was trying to find a good example of the proper Torahic writing, but it doesn't look as good on the computer as it does in reall life.

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Post by Emma_85 » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:43 pm

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you mean with wise. Do you just refer to sayings or to metaphors in the language, which no one recognises as metaphors anymore?
Like in the German language to dispose of rubbish is 'entsorgen' that means 'to take away cares/worries'. I always love to hear this one, cause it’s so funny. You throw away something and then all the worries are gone, but of course when you look at todays rubbish tips you know that that is so not true, and no German ever thinks of it like that.
Is that the sort of 'wisdom' you’re talking about?
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Post by Kalailan » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:56 pm

not exactly, but sort of.
i am talking about things that when discover i am astonished.
they may seem stupid, but they don't to me.
things like the fact that one can tell wheter the moon is starting its cycle or finishing it by the name that these two conditions have. the letter can tell you by the shape.
or that the word for "god" in Gimetry (the numeral value of letters and therefore words) equals 26, which is double of love, which is 13, which in turn is a special number.
or that the word for "Wisdom" equals 73, which are two very important numbers.
things like that. i am not sure i brought the best examples, but thats the best i can do in late hours.

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Post by Emma_85 » Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:14 pm

Ah, ok, now I think I know what you mean.
I'm sure there are quite a few surprising things in the English language like that... but I just can't think of any right now :P . What I like about the language is that often the sound of a word is enough to tell you what it means and that certain sounds also have a feeling attached to them.

English certainly has a lot of words to explain the way the sea works, which the German language just lacks, for example the word 'tide'. It's a simple word, but they don't have one of their own and use the English 'tide' in all the Geography books. They don’t pronounce it English, but it still doesn’t sound like a German word and none of my friends had heard of the word before, but it is of Indo-European origin I think.
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Post by klewlis » Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:06 am

Kalailan wrote:not exactly, but sort of.
i am talking about things that when discover i am astonished.
they may seem stupid, but they don't to me.
things like the fact that one can tell wheter the moon is starting its cycle or finishing it by the name that these two conditions have. the letter can tell you by the shape.
or that the word for "god" in Gimetry (the numeral value of letters and therefore words) equals 26, which is double of love, which is 13, which in turn is a special number.
or that the word for "Wisdom" equals 73, which are two very important numbers.
things like that. i am not sure i brought the best examples, but thats the best i can do in late hours.
I only did a little hebrew in college so I am by no means an expert, but it seems to me that things like this are more coincidence than anything, and you could probably find them in any language if you look hard enough. The hebrew language has had the benefit of being considered a sacred language from its inception, which means that people have always been looking for hidden significance in it. I wonder if the same is true of, say, Arabic.

Another factor may be that Hebrew is much closer to a pictographic language (I have no idea if that's the word I'm looking for but hopefully people know what I mean), where the letters used to be pictures, so it makes sense that the letters and words themselves would retain some of that inherent meaning.

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Post by annis » Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:35 am

klewlis wrote: I wonder if the same is true of, say, Arabic.
I'm not sure about Arabic, but the Greeks in the (Roman) Imperial period certainly had a passion for this sort of words->numbers comparisons. Some interesting pairs - mostly vulgar - got enshrined in verse.

I'd not be surprised if Arabic also has people doing this, since it shares with Greek and Hebrew the a=1, b=2, ..., j=10, k=20 way of representing numbers, in addition to the more familiar base 10 system.
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Post by Kalailan » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:25 am

I only did a little hebrew in college so I am by no means an expert, but it seems to me that things like this are more coincidence than anything,
.
I think that they are too many to be mere coincidences.
perhaps when more familiar with the jewish world one can understand this better.
it is indeed also to do with the level of Theism i suppose...

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Post by Emma_85 » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:33 pm

or that the word for "god" in Gimetry (the numeral value of letters and therefore words) equals 26, which is double of love, which is 13, which in turn is a special number.
or that the word for "Wisdom" equals 73, which are two very important numbers.
You don't think that this is coincidence? I really don't think that someone sat down and thought, we need a word for wisdom, oh, and also let's make its numerical value 73, that would be nice.
When building churches and cathedrals that was definitely the case, but people don't build languages normally, they evolve.
I suppose some people may have thought up words for new things and given them names which had some sort of significance when turned into numbers, or that scribes thought those words were better than others because of their significance and if two similar words were normally used they would only use the one with a number significance in their writings. But I just invented that and have no idea about Hebrew...
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Post by mingshey » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:51 am

Kalailan wrote:I think that they are too many to be mere coincidences.
perhaps when more familiar with the jewish world one can understand this better.
it is indeed also to do with the level of Theism i suppose...
Since they'd be doing such numerological search for many a hundred years, no wonder they have many examples in hebrew.

My personal opinion is, gematria is a terrible waste of human intelligence upon hardly meaningful subject; it's like striving to find a pattern from the rear side of an embroidery.

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