I don't know who knows about this already, but I stumbled across http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/ and had to share it. This Catholic society is working to put authoritative editions of the entire history of the Church's documents online. Most are in Latin, but there is lots of Greek, too. The scope and immensity of the project is staggering. Hopefully it will be of use to some of you.
Does anyone know anything about this "Cooperatorum Veritatis Societas"?
Documenta Catholica Omnia
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adilsonlc
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Re: Documenta Catholica Omnia
Thanks so much for that. It is so good to find an resource os documents in Latin like it.thesaurus wrote:I don't know who knows about this already, but I stumbled across http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/ and had to share it. This Catholic society is working to put authoritative editions of the entire history of the Church's documents online.
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Kyneto Valesio
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Does anyone know anything about this "Cooperatorum Veritatis Societas"?
I hadn't heard of them before now. But by invoking the name PIUS X, I assume that this group is also linked to the excommunicated followers of Lefevre who were recently discussed in another thread.
http://www.sspx.org/
This group desires nothing more than to be accepted back in the fold. And I am guessing that it could happen. If it doesn't, they are doomed to marginality.
I once went to a few SSPX masses. Personally, I got a very creepy feeling like I had stumbled onto a ultra-right wing cabal of anti-semitic royalists trying to relive some historical fantasy. What I experienced was a feeling more than any direct evidence of this groups fascistic tendencies.
Incidentally, even the media is easily deceived into thinking SSPX is part of the Roman Catholic church. When there was all that media coverage about Mel Gibson and the Last Passion of Christ, I don't remember the media focusing on the fact that Gibson was only a pretending to be catholic or that he actually belonged to a weird cult. Check this out (the part about Gibson's father is very funny):
http://ww4report.com/static/passion.html
To members of this forum who may be affiliated with one of these shards of the historical roman church, I say, come home to the real church.
I hadn't heard of them before now. But by invoking the name PIUS X, I assume that this group is also linked to the excommunicated followers of Lefevre who were recently discussed in another thread.
The tipoff words are Pius X and traditionalist. It's a case of the heretics considering themselves more Catholic than the pope. They are not in communion with the Rome. Here is the web page of SSPXCooperatorum Veritatis Societas © 2006 Cooperatorum Veritatis Societas quoad hanc editionem iura omnia asservantur. Litterula per inscriptionem electronicam: Cooperatorum Veritatis Societas «Ubi Petrus, ibi Ecclesia, ibi Deus (Ambrosius) ... Amici Veri Ecclesiae Traditionalisti Sunt.» Divus Pius X Papa: «Notre Charge Apostolique»
http://www.sspx.org/
This group desires nothing more than to be accepted back in the fold. And I am guessing that it could happen. If it doesn't, they are doomed to marginality.
I once went to a few SSPX masses. Personally, I got a very creepy feeling like I had stumbled onto a ultra-right wing cabal of anti-semitic royalists trying to relive some historical fantasy. What I experienced was a feeling more than any direct evidence of this groups fascistic tendencies.
Incidentally, even the media is easily deceived into thinking SSPX is part of the Roman Catholic church. When there was all that media coverage about Mel Gibson and the Last Passion of Christ, I don't remember the media focusing on the fact that Gibson was only a pretending to be catholic or that he actually belonged to a weird cult. Check this out (the part about Gibson's father is very funny):
http://ww4report.com/static/passion.html
To members of this forum who may be affiliated with one of these shards of the historical roman church, I say, come home to the real church.
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thesaurus
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Very intriguing Kyneto, thank you for the information. I wasn't aware of these Church politics. Though, I suppose the group ought to be commended for their latinity. It's interesting how politics and language intersect like that...
I was surprised by the point in the article that said the Romans in Israel spoke Greek instead of Latin. I remember a long thread about that somewhere, so we probably don't need to get into it again.
I was surprised by the point in the article that said the Romans in Israel spoke Greek instead of Latin. I remember a long thread about that somewhere, so we probably don't need to get into it again.
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Amadeus
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Now, hold on there, Kyneto. It is true that the FSSPX is on the verge of schism, but they haven't yet been declared heretics. Better leave this job to the clerics.Kyneto Valesio wrote:It's a case of the heretics considering themselves more Catholic than the pope.
See, again, this is not as clear-cut as you make it seem. While it is certain that the consecrators Lefebvre and Castro de Meyer, as well as the 4 consecrated bishops, are excommunicated, it is still uncertain whether the priests fall under that penalty. As to the lay faithful (those in good conscience, of course), they are still, without doubt, part of the Catholic Church, albeit in an irregular position.Incidentally, even the media is easily deceived into thinking SSPX is part of the Roman Catholic church.
What cult would that be? As far as I know, his only problem is attending a Mass celebrated by a priest who is not incardinated and who may very well be excommunicated. But as to his personal status within the Church, I think none of us really knows it. Gibson is very secretive about his personal beliefs.Mel Gibson [...] was only a pretending to be catholic or that he actually belonged to a weird cult.
Btw, that article you linked to is very, very misleading, to put it mildly. Traditionalism is not a sect or a cult; rather, it is a loose ecclesial movement with no set leaders (apart from the Pope) and no one system of belief (besides the Catholic faith). People who participate in this movement can have their own ideas and convictions. Yes, some of them are on the nutty side, but the majority are normal people like you and me. The Pope himself is a friend of traditionalists (remember the Motu Proprio?). So, if you want to learn what the catholic traditionalist movement is really about, it would be best to avoid WW4 Report and go to, of all places, Wikipedia, for something neutral at least.
Vale!
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!
Homer: Well it's always in the last place you look.
Homer: Well it's always in the last place you look.
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bepimela
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Sir,
«Documenta Catholica Omnia est locum proprium Cooperatorum Veritatis Societatis, Consociationis christefidelium qui libenter privateque oboedentiam Summo Pontifici vovent et animo contendit ad definitivas omnium documentorum versiones in Sanctæ Cristianæ Ecclesiæ, Catholicæ, Apostolicæ et Romanæ ambitu - in originali lingua et in conformitantibus tradutionibus - divulgandas.»
That is:
«Documenta Catholica Omnia is the official site of the Cooperatorum Veritas Societas, a people’s Membership who have voluntarily and privately promised obedience to the Holy Father, in order to spread the official versions of each and every written document belonging to the Holy Christian Church, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman, in their original language and in faithful translations as well.»
It is wrong to claim «I assume that this group is also linked to the excommunicated followers of Lefevre who were recently discussed in another thread.»: it should be sufficient to read the About-Us section in our site to know us. One must not iassume anything without a proper documentation: such a statement closely resembles a libel.
On the contrary, we just execute what the Holy Father directly orders us to make. Thereby, we fully belong to the Holy Christian Church, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman.
It can be useful to read with more attention, and understand, both the St Ambrose's statement: «Ubi Petrus, ibi Ecclesia, ibi Deus» and the «Notre Charge Apostolique» writing of the Holy Pope Pius X. Only the Holy Fathers can define what a catholic must understand as "Catholic Tradition".
Anyway, at the half of this year the Migne'sPatrologia Latina will be finished, whereas the Greek Patristic is already available.
Sincerely
Giuseppe Sandro
The Rector od the Cooperatorum Veritatis Societatis.
«Documenta Catholica Omnia est locum proprium Cooperatorum Veritatis Societatis, Consociationis christefidelium qui libenter privateque oboedentiam Summo Pontifici vovent et animo contendit ad definitivas omnium documentorum versiones in Sanctæ Cristianæ Ecclesiæ, Catholicæ, Apostolicæ et Romanæ ambitu - in originali lingua et in conformitantibus tradutionibus - divulgandas.»
That is:
«Documenta Catholica Omnia is the official site of the Cooperatorum Veritas Societas, a people’s Membership who have voluntarily and privately promised obedience to the Holy Father, in order to spread the official versions of each and every written document belonging to the Holy Christian Church, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman, in their original language and in faithful translations as well.»
It is wrong to claim «I assume that this group is also linked to the excommunicated followers of Lefevre who were recently discussed in another thread.»: it should be sufficient to read the About-Us section in our site to know us. One must not iassume anything without a proper documentation: such a statement closely resembles a libel.
On the contrary, we just execute what the Holy Father directly orders us to make. Thereby, we fully belong to the Holy Christian Church, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman.
It can be useful to read with more attention, and understand, both the St Ambrose's statement: «Ubi Petrus, ibi Ecclesia, ibi Deus» and the «Notre Charge Apostolique» writing of the Holy Pope Pius X. Only the Holy Fathers can define what a catholic must understand as "Catholic Tradition".
Anyway, at the half of this year the Migne'sPatrologia Latina will be finished, whereas the Greek Patristic is already available.
Sincerely
Giuseppe Sandro
The Rector od the Cooperatorum Veritatis Societatis.
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thesaurus
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Dear Giuseppe Sandro,
Thank you for your clarifications as well as for the hard work of your society. The Patrologia Latina and Graeca will be a great benefit for me and surely many others. Do you know approximately how many more documents remain to be digitized, or is there no foreseeable end to your project?
Thank you for your clarifications as well as for the hard work of your society. The Patrologia Latina and Graeca will be a great benefit for me and surely many others. Do you know approximately how many more documents remain to be digitized, or is there no foreseeable end to your project?
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bepimela
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Dear Thesaurus,
This is a good question.
We received the order to publish all the documents that directly or indirectly deal with the Catholic Doctrine and that may be useful to deeply understand it.
The work is divided into many consecutive steps over the time.
1] The writings of the Holy Popes, starting from our days to St. Peter, without infringing any Vatican's copyright. Thereby, our collection will be incomplete for a few more years. However, the have in our hand about 70,000 writings in standby.
2] The Migne's Latin and Greek Patristic. High quality proofs of all the writings should be be available on June of this year. There are still 4,000 files to be reviewed. All these documents contain a word-by-word analytical index which is useful not only for research purpose but even to debug the texts. These provisional texts should be error-free as far as the grammar is concerned. They may be lacking of some inner numerations, and sometimes the order of some phrases might be inverted, but these texts can be used, although with good sense. Please, notice that we already published some lexica propria made on the whole writings of some authors. We are currently working to the lexicon proprium of St Augustin.
3] Presently, the Greek parts within the Migne's Patrologia Latina still retains several systematic typing errors. These errors will be amended when all the Latin proofs will be available. As far as the Patrologia Graeca is concerned, our own edition should be available at the end of 2009.
4] These proofs will then be reviewed against the paper edition and footnotes will be added. We hopes that this work should be finished within five years. The definitive edition will be published without any protection.
We hope that our visitors can actively help us to debug the texts, reporting any imprecision.
5] Some members of our Society are actually working directly on the manuscripts to make available in the future an our own up-to-date critical edition of all the texts coming from Patrologia Latina and Graeca. This work should require about thirty years.
6] Some other member of our Society are currently working to collect (and make) good and precise translations of the Patristic texts into several modern languages: English, French, German, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish. This is a very hard work, since many available translations are deeply incorrect, mainly owing the interference of some personal undue preconceived ideas. In fact, very often these translations have been deeply influenced by religious, political, philosophic points of view, and they do not translate what the author really says. Moreover, the systematic control of the citations reveal a lot of error. This work is scheduled for completion over the next twenty years. In the meantime, we will publish provisional texts.
7] In the next near future we will publish an up-to-date electronic edition of the Denzinger, that will report in extenso all the quoted texts as well as all the writing that refer to the Denzinger. At the moment, this text holds about 60,000 pages written in seven different languages and it is organized as a hypertext.
8] At the end of 2009 it will be available the whole collection of the capitula of all the Vatican Congregations, Dicastera, and so on. We presently have about 90,000 documents that need to be ordered and reviewed.
Now, it should be clear that all these work will be made by our successors.
Best regards
Giuseppe Sandro
This is a good question.
We received the order to publish all the documents that directly or indirectly deal with the Catholic Doctrine and that may be useful to deeply understand it.
The work is divided into many consecutive steps over the time.
1] The writings of the Holy Popes, starting from our days to St. Peter, without infringing any Vatican's copyright. Thereby, our collection will be incomplete for a few more years. However, the have in our hand about 70,000 writings in standby.
2] The Migne's Latin and Greek Patristic. High quality proofs of all the writings should be be available on June of this year. There are still 4,000 files to be reviewed. All these documents contain a word-by-word analytical index which is useful not only for research purpose but even to debug the texts. These provisional texts should be error-free as far as the grammar is concerned. They may be lacking of some inner numerations, and sometimes the order of some phrases might be inverted, but these texts can be used, although with good sense. Please, notice that we already published some lexica propria made on the whole writings of some authors. We are currently working to the lexicon proprium of St Augustin.
3] Presently, the Greek parts within the Migne's Patrologia Latina still retains several systematic typing errors. These errors will be amended when all the Latin proofs will be available. As far as the Patrologia Graeca is concerned, our own edition should be available at the end of 2009.
4] These proofs will then be reviewed against the paper edition and footnotes will be added. We hopes that this work should be finished within five years. The definitive edition will be published without any protection.
We hope that our visitors can actively help us to debug the texts, reporting any imprecision.
5] Some members of our Society are actually working directly on the manuscripts to make available in the future an our own up-to-date critical edition of all the texts coming from Patrologia Latina and Graeca. This work should require about thirty years.
6] Some other member of our Society are currently working to collect (and make) good and precise translations of the Patristic texts into several modern languages: English, French, German, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish. This is a very hard work, since many available translations are deeply incorrect, mainly owing the interference of some personal undue preconceived ideas. In fact, very often these translations have been deeply influenced by religious, political, philosophic points of view, and they do not translate what the author really says. Moreover, the systematic control of the citations reveal a lot of error. This work is scheduled for completion over the next twenty years. In the meantime, we will publish provisional texts.
7] In the next near future we will publish an up-to-date electronic edition of the Denzinger, that will report in extenso all the quoted texts as well as all the writing that refer to the Denzinger. At the moment, this text holds about 60,000 pages written in seven different languages and it is organized as a hypertext.
8] At the end of 2009 it will be available the whole collection of the capitula of all the Vatican Congregations, Dicastera, and so on. We presently have about 90,000 documents that need to be ordered and reviewed.
Now, it should be clear that all these work will be made by our successors.
Best regards
Giuseppe Sandro
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Brian
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Salve Giuseppe
Here is a document that I have not been able to track down, other than than a brief description/summary, over at the sedevacantist site, traditio.com
Ordinationes ad Constitutionem Apostolicam Veterum Sapientia Rite Exsequendam [Decrees for Rightly Executing the Apostolic Constitution Veterum Sapientia
Would have a lead, on this follow up document, to Pope John's Veterum Sapientia? I woul like to have the full statement.
keep up the good work
Vale for now
Brian Anderson
Strathroy Ontario
Canada
Here is a document that I have not been able to track down, other than than a brief description/summary, over at the sedevacantist site, traditio.com
Ordinationes ad Constitutionem Apostolicam Veterum Sapientia Rite Exsequendam [Decrees for Rightly Executing the Apostolic Constitution Veterum Sapientia
Would have a lead, on this follow up document, to Pope John's Veterum Sapientia? I woul like to have the full statement.
keep up the good work
Vale for now
Brian Anderson
Strathroy Ontario
Canada
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Kyneto Valesio
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bepimela
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Dear Friends,
In the first, excuse my poor English: please, look for the substance not form. I love English language, but usually I have to speak east-Europe idioms. Moreover, please, excuse this incorrect use of a blog that should be made by quick phrases, but the problems you are dealing with are substantial in their nature and of paramount interest. In the future I will be much more synthetic.
Secondly, we have published the Constitutio 'Veterum Sapientia' by the His Holiness Ioannes XXIII, 1962-02-22, and the rules (really, there are some other Decrees) for rightly executing this Constitution are still under reviewing. I suppose that they should be available in the next time. Sorry, we cannot publish raw texts, since they retain not only typing errors but often several notes written by our sources, and these notes must be removed. We are too few people to make simultaneously all the things we have to do. I thank Mr. Brian Anderson not only for the question, but also for reporting his real name.
Thirdly, I thank Kyneto Valesio and accept his apologies, but was not the case to apologize.
A man who knows how to apologize is surely a man of honor, and I will be happy to know him better.
«Nolite iudicare» is a very difficult issue, but we should remember that everyone who really search the Truth have the Spirit of Truth, and «Spiritus interpellat gemitibus inenarrabilibus».
This is one of the reasons by which our Society has many coworkers who belong to almost all the religions, from the Lutheran, Anglican, and Orthodox to Jewish and also Muslim. Even Atheists cooperate with us, and we deeply respect these people, as they respect us. Thereby, we have no problem to cooperate also with people coming from the Community of mons. Lefevre. All we tray to search and serve the Truth by publishing the texts of our St Tradition as much correct as possible. In our opinion, these texts are also a heritage of humanity, no matter the religion: they are the evidence of our common roots.
Fourthly, we invite all human beings of goodwill to review the position of mons. Lefevre, as well as the positions of many other people. As far as the catholic belief is concerned, his error was having ordained bishops without the St Pope' authorization. In the same time, more than one hundred thesis dealing with the St Catholic Faith and Tradition were condemned as heretical. Disobedience is one thing, and another heresy.
Anyway, in our humble opinion, also in the heretic thesis one can find somewhat of Truth and we should learn and appreciate it, obviously, without accepting the heretical statements. It seems to be a severe methodological error to assume a part as the whole.
Our Migne's new edition could be useful to better know the St Tradition and to put It in the appropriate place of continuity over time, where the Second Vatican Council cannot be seen as a breaking event, but as the Council that follows the First Vatican one and comes just before the next future Council of the Roman Church. «Unus Deus, una Religio, una Traditio». The Truth has no temporal dimension, no melting points.
My good Friends, could you help us to finish the editing of the Migne's, Greek and Latin Patristic no matter the religion or beliefs? Resulting files will be available to all and they will be distributed for free. We bless any error debugging and report! In the case, don't hesitate to contact me directly to avoid the blog surcharge.
Spirit, the Spirit of the Truth, will bless you!
Giuseppe Sandro
In the first, excuse my poor English: please, look for the substance not form. I love English language, but usually I have to speak east-Europe idioms. Moreover, please, excuse this incorrect use of a blog that should be made by quick phrases, but the problems you are dealing with are substantial in their nature and of paramount interest. In the future I will be much more synthetic.
Secondly, we have published the Constitutio 'Veterum Sapientia' by the His Holiness Ioannes XXIII, 1962-02-22, and the rules (really, there are some other Decrees) for rightly executing this Constitution are still under reviewing. I suppose that they should be available in the next time. Sorry, we cannot publish raw texts, since they retain not only typing errors but often several notes written by our sources, and these notes must be removed. We are too few people to make simultaneously all the things we have to do. I thank Mr. Brian Anderson not only for the question, but also for reporting his real name.
Thirdly, I thank Kyneto Valesio and accept his apologies, but was not the case to apologize.
A man who knows how to apologize is surely a man of honor, and I will be happy to know him better.
«Nolite iudicare» is a very difficult issue, but we should remember that everyone who really search the Truth have the Spirit of Truth, and «Spiritus interpellat gemitibus inenarrabilibus».
This is one of the reasons by which our Society has many coworkers who belong to almost all the religions, from the Lutheran, Anglican, and Orthodox to Jewish and also Muslim. Even Atheists cooperate with us, and we deeply respect these people, as they respect us. Thereby, we have no problem to cooperate also with people coming from the Community of mons. Lefevre. All we tray to search and serve the Truth by publishing the texts of our St Tradition as much correct as possible. In our opinion, these texts are also a heritage of humanity, no matter the religion: they are the evidence of our common roots.
Fourthly, we invite all human beings of goodwill to review the position of mons. Lefevre, as well as the positions of many other people. As far as the catholic belief is concerned, his error was having ordained bishops without the St Pope' authorization. In the same time, more than one hundred thesis dealing with the St Catholic Faith and Tradition were condemned as heretical. Disobedience is one thing, and another heresy.
Anyway, in our humble opinion, also in the heretic thesis one can find somewhat of Truth and we should learn and appreciate it, obviously, without accepting the heretical statements. It seems to be a severe methodological error to assume a part as the whole.
Our Migne's new edition could be useful to better know the St Tradition and to put It in the appropriate place of continuity over time, where the Second Vatican Council cannot be seen as a breaking event, but as the Council that follows the First Vatican one and comes just before the next future Council of the Roman Church. «Unus Deus, una Religio, una Traditio». The Truth has no temporal dimension, no melting points.
My good Friends, could you help us to finish the editing of the Migne's, Greek and Latin Patristic no matter the religion or beliefs? Resulting files will be available to all and they will be distributed for free. We bless any error debugging and report! In the case, don't hesitate to contact me directly to avoid the blog surcharge.
Spirit, the Spirit of the Truth, will bless you!
Giuseppe Sandro
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Kyneto Valesio
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Salve Giuseppe
Noli solicitari, amice spectabilis, omnia enim a te relata anglice sine difficultatibus intellegi possunt. Dixerim equidem te perbene linguam angelorum callere.
Cura ut valeas!
Kenneth Walsh (nomen verissimum!)
In the first, excuse my poor English:
Noli solicitari, amice spectabilis, omnia enim a te relata anglice sine difficultatibus intellegi possunt. Dixerim equidem te perbene linguam angelorum callere.
Facultatem fandi diversis modis valde admiror. Quot tibi sunt nota idioma hodierna? Quot antiquorum?I love English language, but usually I have to speak east-Europe idioms.
Rationibus validis et compatientibus disseris de veritatis inquisitione! Loci quod olim legi apud documentum cui nomen "Splendor veritatis" (nisi memoria mihi fallit) memini; illic affirmatur quod etiam inter scripta paganorum veritas aliquantulum lucet. Avia et mihi solebat dicere: Diem, nepos, habe perditum in quo aliquid ex barbarissimo homine discere non posses.«Nolite iudicare» is a very difficult issue, but we should remember that everyone who really search the Truth have the Spirit of Truth, and «Spiritus interpellat gemitibus inenarrabilibus»........... In our opinion, these texts are also a heritage of humanity, no matter the religion: they are the evidence of our common roots.........Anyway, in our humble opinion, also in the heretic thesis one can find somewhat of Truth and we should learn and appreciate it, obviously, without accepting the heretical statements. It seems to be a severe methodological error to assume a part as the whole.
Hominibus doctis opus est inter quos numerandus non sum! Attamen, ex imo corde ut vestra incepta floreant exopto.My good Friends, could you help us to finish the editing of the Migne's, Greek and Latin Patristic no matter the religion or beliefs?
Cura ut valeas!
Kenneth Walsh (nomen verissimum!)
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danica
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