Re-Organizing the Forums

[edonnelly]

Paul Derouda suggested the possibility of re-organizing the forums, so I thought I'd go ahead and start the topic for all to weigh in.

As many of you know, when Textkit was initially started by Jeff, the site's main purpose was the digitization and distribution of public-domain texts related to learning Latin and ancient Greek. At the time (2002) there were precious few such texts out on the internet. The forums were designed mainly to assist people who were using these texts, especially the handful that were extremely popular by visitors. Over time, more sites (including Google, Internet Archive and many others) began making scanned texts available and there was no need for Textkit to continue that function. However, the forums grew and attracted lots of users who were interested in learning and discussing ancient Greek and/or Latin, even though they did not have any interest in or ties to the particular books that the forums were organized around.

The current situation is that we have a lot of sub-forums that get little or no traffic (The "First Greek Book - White" forum, for example, has only four topics with posts in the last 18 months) while others get lots of traffic that is not well organized ("Learning Greek" has had over 30 active topics just this month alone).

I have no specific proposal myself, but thought I would start the discussion rolling. Should we simply? Should we organize differently? Should we have more sub-forums, fewer, etc? Does it matter? If we do make changes, what should (and for that matter what could) happen to all the posts that are already here?

It has always been the community that has made Textkit so great, so I pose these questions to the community for discussion. Thanks everyone for all of you contributions.

[daivid]

Koine Greek And Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek could be renamed Koine Greek And Biblical Greek whic is the role it serves now.
Likewise Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners could be renamed as Homeric Greek.
Learning Greek now serves as an Attic+Ionic Greek forum in which other forms of Greek are also discussed. The current tittle fits that role.

This leaves First Greek Book - White without an adequate role. It isn't a good place even to place a question about White as the traffic is so low that the temptation is just to ignore it.

Sometimes a group of people working an a specific book produce a large number of posts and that the choice is between flooding the forum with lots of new threads or leaves those working on that book the task of navigating one monster thread. It would be useful to have a forum for those doing a joint study of a textbook so perhaps it could be renamed so as to fulfill that role?

[Hylander]

I think the idea of renaming the forums is a good one, and keeping the total number of forums at four each, so that users aren't presented with a huge array of forums to look into at each visit. My suggestions:

Reading Greek (other than Homeric and Biblical)
Homeric Greek
Beginning Greek (or maybe "Learning Greek"?; formerly White)
Biblical Greek

NB: Non-biblical Koine (Polybius, Plutarch, etc.) seems best grouped with the catch-all Reading Greek category.

On the Latin side:

Reading Classical Latin
Medieval Latin
Beginning Latin ("Learning Latin"?)
Neo-Latin

Alternatively, neo-Latin, which is mostly based on Classical Latin, could be grouped with Classical Latin and a separate forum could be designated for Latin Poetry, which presents unique problems and requires special reading techniques.

As previously, a great deal of latitude should be allowed, so that no one should be chided for posting in the wrong category. If someone stumbles into the "Reading" forums with an elementary question, for example, they should be entitled to get an answer without being indignantly instructed to post their question elsewhere.

Perhaps the "Beginning" forums should be the first in line. If the order is changed, can there be continuity between pre- and post?

The "Beginning" or "Learning" forums would allow participants to jointly work on beginning textbooks, although these efforts seem to peter out after a while.

Bill

[Paul Derouda]

We wouldn't want lose any old posts, so we can't just remove First Greek Book - White. But perhaps, if it's technically possible (and not too time-consuming), we could transfer all topics there into Learning Greek and then remove the whole thing?

Also the "introductions" need some reworking. I suggest something in this vein – but this is just a starting point, please improve, or reject altogether if needed!

"Are you reading Homeric Greek or studying Homeric Greek with Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners? Here's where you can meet other Homeric Greek learners. Use this board for all things Homeric Greek."
--> "Are you reading Homeric Greek (also known as Epic Greek)? Whether you are a total beginner or an advanced Homerist, here you can meet kindred spirits. Use this board for all things Homeric Greek."

"Are you learning New Testament Greek with Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek? Here's where you can meet other learners using this textbook. Use this board to ask questions and post your work for feedback. Use this forum too to discuss all things Koine, LXX & New Testament Greek including grammar, syntax, textbook talk and more."
--> "Are you learning Koine Greek, also known as New Testament Greek or Biblical Greek? Whatever your level, use this forum too to discuss all things Koine, LXX & New Testament Greek, including grammar, syntax, textbook talk and more."

EDIT: I posted this before seeing Bill's post. The idea of separate "reading" and "beginning" sections is good in my opinion. But we also have to decide what to do with the old posts, whether we merge several old forums into one and move the topics, or find some other solution.

[swtwentyman]

Bill has some good suggestions but I'm not sure how the beginning/reading forums would work: that is, where the cutoff would be for posting in one versus posting the other.

The Greek side is well-divided already and wouldn't take much trouble to redesign. For the Latin, -- which indeed is a mess -- I'd disagree with separate fora for medieval and neo-Latin (though now that I think of it there are more posts on those topics than I had assumed), folding them instead into a single postclassical forum.

[Hylander]

The cutoff between beginning and reading could be between Greek and Latin from textbooks and Greek and Latin in ancient Greek texts, with wide latitude for error.

Neo/modern Latin tends to follow Classical models. Medieval Latin is generally quite different. Again, wide latitude between Classical and Medieval should be allowed. There does seem to be a lot of interest in neo-Latin, so I think a separate forum might be warranted.

[daivid]

The cutoff between beginning and reading could be between Greek and Latin from textbooks and Greek and Latin in ancient Greek texts, with wide latitude for error.

I would be against a split between beginning and reading Greek. First off Learning Greek seems to combine the two without problems so why split them. Second I think there is an advantage in that the more knowledgeable among us have mixed in with the very basic beginners questions more challenging and hence more interesting questions. There is a risk that the beginners forum will be ignored.

[Hylander]

I would be against a split between beginning and reading Greek.

Both forums would be less cluttered. And a number of more knowledgeable participants respond to those in the initial phases now--why wouldn't they do so if the forums were split? They can always see the most recent post in each forum, and could respond no less readily if the forums were split.

Another suggestion: delete the misguided post that recommends everyone start with Homeric Greek, even if they aim at reading Plato or Aristotle or anything else, or at least unlock it so that other views can be expressed.

[daivid]

Both forums would be less cluttered. And a number of more knowledgeable participants respond to those in the initial phases now--why wouldn't they do so if the forums were split? They can always see the most recent post in each forum, and could respond no less readily if the forums were split.

It is inconvenient to check lots of subforums and as a result I only check a limited number. I suspect most people do the same.

Another suggestion: delete the misguided post that recommends everyone start with Homeric Greek, even if they aim at reading Plato or Aristotle or anything else, or at least unlock it so that other views can be expressed.

It is now unlocked.

[Hylander]

It is inconvenient to check lots of subforums and as a result I only check a limited number. I suspect most people do the same.

Only one click more inconvenient than checking individual threads. And as long as the aggregate number of forums remains low--four each for Greek and Latin--it shouldn't be a problem. Keeping the aggregate number of forums at no more than four each is essential to my proposal.

Daivid, I think you underestimate the willingness of some of the more advanced members to respond to more elementary questions. Some don't want to--that's their prerogative, of course, and leaving what I call "learning Greek" questions mixed in with "reading Greek" won't change that--but there are enough who are willing to help. I like to try to answer the "learning Greek" questions because they make me review the basics (sometimes with unfortunate results, as in my disastrous response in the "contracted vs. uncontracted" thread).

Some of us get a lot of satisfaction from being able to help others. I put a fair amount of effort into this, and I try to make my responses as clear as I can.

One advantage of splitting the threads as I propose is that threads in both forums would remain prominent longer before being pushed down. The forums would be more coherent, too.

Again, I would propose that the barrier between the two threads remain porous--no shaming of participants who post in the wrong thread, and everyone would be expected to maintain the same standards of civility that prevail now (with one notorious exception).

One other suggestion--instead of just Homeric Greek, maybe a forum dedicated to "Homeric and Archaic Greek", to invite and collect threads about early elegy, Sappho and Alcaeus, the Homeric hymns, Alcman, Steisichorus, etc. in addition to Homer.

Thanks for unlocking the dialect thread. I'll go post my rant right away.

[Paul Derouda]

If we had separate "learning Greek" and "reading Greek", the cutoff would be that the former would include all discussions related to textbooks, excercise books, grammar questions, learning strategies and theoretical approach to the language in general. Perhaps we might call it "Studying Greek", which seems to be a more encompassing term — the sub-forum needn't be just for novices. "Reading Greek" would be about reading actual ancient texts. Perhaps the point is (and I think I agree) that Bill wants to give a place of honour to reading Greek, because that's really what serious study of ancient language is aiming at and that's what we want to encourage people to try to do.

But there's still the technical problem of what to do with the old posts, if we split the "Learning Greek" forum in two. I suppose it's possible to merge two forums into one (to get rid of the "White" forum), but the inverse doesn't seem practicable. Perhaps we might just rename "Learning Greek" to "Learning Greek and reading Greek" or "Studying Greek and reading Greek"? That would at least give the idea that we want help people to get also beyond the basics.

Bill — perhaps "Homeric Greek and Archaic Greek poetry"?

[Hylander]

Paul, I don't want to give a place of honor to what I call "reading Greek," because, as I mentioned, I get a lot of satisfaction out of helping less advanced participants when I can.

"Homeric Greek and Archaic Greek poetry" --that would be fine, except that there isn't much archaic Greek prose. Prose hadn't been invented yet.

[Paul Derouda]

"Homeric Greek and Archaic Greek poetry" --that would be fine, except that there isn't much archaic Greek prose. Prose hadn't been invented yet.

Of course, but my idea was that that way it would be clearer to someone who doesn't know that. "Homeric Greek" is a well-known entity and most people coming here probably undestand what it means, "Homeric and archaic Greek" is a bit vague.

[Paul Derouda]

Or maybe "Homeric Greek and early Greek poetry"?

[Hylander]

Or maybe "Homeric Greek and early Greek poetry"?

Yes, that works well.

[Timothée]

This does arouse the highly moot question about the suitability of the name of the forum, deriving from its original function now to some extent obsolete, as mentioned above. I do appreciate that many may have strong predilection for it. I don't wish to be too controversial — I just thought that it may lead some potential new users astray.

[edonnelly]

One question we might consider is do we need all these subforums? Greek nicely divides into Homeric/Attic/Koine (at least for the people who visit here) but the generic "Learning Greek" is 6 times more active than even the most popular subforum. Plus, where would you go with questions about moving from Homeric to Attic or vice versa?

Latin divides less nicely. We could go classic/medieval/neo or something like that, but, unlike Greek where people enter from any of the three types I put above, nearly everyone who comes here is either interested in and/or at least started in classical. Also, while the Greek forums were organized around books from the different types I listed above, the Latin subforums are organized around three classical Latin books. On top of that, the "Learning Latin" forum is 20 times more active than its subforums.

Would there be any value in essentially merging the current subforums in Latin and Greek and instead dividing each language into one for learning the language, one for specific questions about translating particular texts and maybe another for composition and/or discussions in that language?

[Hylander]

Would there be any value in essentially merging the current subforums in Latin and Greek and instead dividing each language into one for learning the language, one for specific questions about translating particular texts and maybe another for composition and/or discussions in that language?

My personal view: Biblical/NT Greek, which often gets into lengthy discussions of theological questions, should have its own forum. From time to time, if not all the time, there's a fair amount of traffic in this area, and I think there are some participants who are more or less entirely focused on Biblical/NT Greek. Again, I would not use the "koine" designation for that forum, as there are plenty of classical texts written after the 4th century in a language that doesn't observe standards of Attic purity.

Also, "specific questions about translating particular texts" may be a bit too narrow. I would suggest "questions and discussions about specific texts and authors."

where would you go with questions about moving from Homeric to Attic or vice versa?

My suggestion is that the forums shouldn't be so strictly segregated--such questions could be posted either in "Learning Greek", "specific texts and authors" or "Homeric and Early Greek". But perhaps Homeric could be merged with the general Greek "texts and authors" forum, and a composition forum could be folded into each of the Greek and Latin divisions.

[Scribo]

Just to add a few notes to this:

I would like to stress again my commmitement to what is in essense the mos maiorum of this forum, I think any changes have to be carefully, very carefully!, considered and I've two worries here:

1) Logistic: Where would all the posts go? We already have a problem in that the earliest posts which display Greek or Latin with macrons are now illegible. As it stands posts are placed in a more or less sensible subforum.

2) Sub-fora are tied to books: This is important. People are correct to point out that textkit's position vis a vis books is no longer strictly unique thanks to archive.org and google. This misses the point. The librarium here has some very good books and readers, which often have keys, and have lots of helpful threads and answered linked to them.

Are they the best textbooks in existence? No, but they are all usable, free, and using them seriously helps cut down on the problem of choice many new users face. As for the sub-fora for modern, paid, books like Wheelock's and M&F, I understand that these are the most commonly used text in the US? especially for intensive and summer courses.

3) We have many "guests". I was a lurker before I joined and I still know many lurkers. One always see references to this place, in fact it made the recent meta-list of Classics resources being passed around. We may have only a few active members, but we have a sizable audience and we should bear that in mind. Someone struggling with a chapter of Wheelock or what principal parts are will always be welcome here even without an account, I don't want to make things more difficult for them.

With those preliminaries out of the way, here is what I think.

Latin:

Latin defies periodisation. We don't have enough interest in medieval/renaissance/neo Latin for that to work here. I don't have the numbers in front of me regarding traffic but the sub-fora have fairly recent posts? I'm sure Latin can be left as it is OR some of the less active subs can be nested in the main "Learning Latin" section.

Greek:

Isn't "White's.." the only weakness here? We should keep the Koine/Biblical separate, rename that to "Koine and Biblical Greek" and be done with it, it's how we use it anyway.

You CAN decouple Homeric Greek from Pharr if you want....except that that's the most common textbook, surely? I'd probably leave the name as it is.

At best, I'd move "White's..." and nest it in the generic "Learning Greek" category.

[daivid]

Changing Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners to Homeric Greek and Archaic Greek poetry and likewise Koine Greek And Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek to Koine and Biblical Greek reflects how they are currently used.

Learning Greek works well as a forum for all questions of whatever level. Hence - if it aint broke why fix it?

First Greek Book - White has a problem in that it is unused. Is there anything useful it can do that is not being done now. In the past when I have participated in a group working on a specific text book it has been a real problem for me when two or more exercises are combined in one thread. When I have said that it better to have one thread per exercise the answer has been that that would clutter the forum. Changing the role of First Greek Book - White to one for groups working on a specific text book would solve that problem.

Overall. I think Scribo is right to warn us to be cautious about changes unless there is a clear advantage in doing so.

[bedwere]

Overall. I think Scribo is right to warn us to be cautious about changes unless there is a clear advantage in doing so.

Habet autem ipsa legis mutatio, quantum in se est, detrimentum quoddam communis salutis. Summa theologiae, Iª-IIae q. 97 a. 2 co.

[daivid]

Overall. I think Scribo is right to warn us to be cautious about changes unless there is a clear advantage in doing so.

Habet autem ipsa legis mutatio, quantum in se est, detrimentum quoddam communis salutis. Summa theologiae, Iª-IIae q. 97 a. 2 co.

I'm afraid I had to resort to Google translate:

Now the very fact of change, so far as he is concerned, he shall suffer a kind of the public welfare. Summa Theologiae, q. 97 a. 2 a.

I don't think Google quite did it justice though...

[bedwere]

Now the very change of the law conveys, so far as it is concerned, some kind of damage of public welfare.

[daivid]

Now the very change of the law conveys, so far as it is concerned, some kind of damage of public welfare.

Much appreciated. I don't think I'll petition Google to add an Ancient Greek option to translate quite yet.

[Paul Derouda]

Latin is all Greek to me too...

Back to the point: All in all, I think Scribo is right about logistical problems. Much as I like the idea of splitting Learning Greek into Learning Greek and Reading Greek, that seems impracticable because of all the old posts. If we were starting this forum from scratch, we'd certainly do one or two things differently. I might also like to change the name of the forum, as suggested above by Timothée, but that too seems impracticable at this stage.

I'm still entertaining the idea of changing Learning Greek to something more encompassing, to really give the message that the forum is also for students who are beyond the ba-be-bi-bo-bu stage of Greek, maybe tackling their first ancient author or why not their twentieth. I've suggested Studying Greek or Learning Greek and reading Greek, but those are just suggestions. Any ideas? On the other hand, I'm content with Learning Greek as well.

I (and apparently Hylander?) think Homeric Greek and early Greek poetry is slightly better than Homeric Greek and Archaic Greek poetry. Beside what Hylander has said above, archaic Greek means a very specific period in history, while there a sort of vagueness in "early Greek poetry" which I think is good.

Everyone seems to like Koine Greek and Biblical Greek or Koine and Biblical Greek, except for Hylander. I think he makes a good point, that there are many non-Attic post-4th century authors that are not Biblical or related to Christianity in any manner. However, I don't think there's much risk of anyone posting about them there. And on the other hand, if we just call it Biblical Greek, someone will object that no such thing as "Biblical Greek" ever existed, that the authors wrote very differently from one another. Besides, there is already a Biblical Greek (B-Greek) forum in existence, and I feel that keeping the world "Koine" in the name gives the message that on our forum Biblical Greek belongs to a broader Greek context (or that's how I feel about it, anyway ).

Daivid's idea of creating one forum for people working with "specific text books" needs considering, however I suspect that it might not catch on much better than White.

I don't really know about the Latin side – if there's enough traffic on the specific book sub-forum, keep them, otherwise I don't know. But I suspect that Scribo is right that periodization won't work.

[mwh]

I find it hard to distinguish between reading Greek and learning Greek. Regardless of level, don’t we all learn as we read? It’s not as if first you learn Greek, and then begin to read it. At least, that notion is not something we want to encourage. Beginners may get little out of the more advanced discussions, and the more advanced may get nothing out of elementary questions and answers (though they are good about dealing with them), but I don’t at all like the idea of segregation. We’re a community of Greek learners.

I’m in favor of keeping most of the existent forums—which seem serviceable enough—but of changing some of their names and associated blurbs. Here's what I'd propose in light of what others have written.

TEXTKIT COMMUNITY forums (Open Board and Civ&Cult). Leave as is.

GREEK.
“Learning Greek.”
I’m OK with this heading. Change it to “Learning and Reading Greek” if you want.

“First Greek Book – White.”
Cancel. Is it possible to fold the existing posts into Learning Greek?

“Homeric Greek and Pharr’s Homeric Greek.”
I’d change to just “Homeric Greek.”

“Koine Greek and Mounce’s Basics of Biblical Greek.”
How about “Koine Greek (New Testament included)”?

Rewrite the blurbs for all of them.

LATIN.
Given the practical problems of reorganization, I’d say leave them all as they are.
If the heading of “Learning Greek” is changed, “Learning Latin” should follow suit. Rewrite the blurb.

FORUM: Composition, Discussions & Debate
Rename as “WRITING GREEK AND LATIN”
Keep “Composition Board” and “The Agora” as is.
Cancel “The Academy.” Is it possible to fold the existing posts into “Civilization and Culture”?

Would it be worth introducing a new forum for Greek and Latin respectively for discussion of textbooks and learning strategies and pedagogical issues? I find the idea of giving this perennially popular and controversial theme a corner of its own quite an attractive one in itself, but there’d be the problem of what to do with the posts on it in the existing fora.

********

PROCEDURE. After receiving all our various input, will our two administrators make a concrete joint proposal, invite time-limited feedback on it, and then implement?

Thanks again for considering a revamp. I think it's needed, but nothing too drastic. And I do urge incorporating sites such as Perseus on the Home page. seneca2008 linked to the Eton software project in the Learning Greek forum (http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... 97#p179003); that could be listed too.

[Paul Derouda]

Ok, should we create a poll now about different name alternatives for subforums? Apparently, we'd have to create a new topic for each question, as the poll functionality doesn't seem to allow multiple questions, but I'd think it's still worth the trouble, even if it will flood somewhat the forum. Before creating the polls, let's make sure that all options are included. Did I miss anything? I you have other suggestions, now's the time!

QUESTIONS: (When we agree about the questions, I'll create a new topic for EACH question)

How should we rename Learning Greek and Learning Latin?
a) Learning Greek and Learning Latin (no change)
b) Learning and reading Greek / Learning and reading Latin
c) Split it into two, Learning Greek(/Latin) and Reading Greek(/Latin)
d) other

What should we do with First Greek Book - White?
1) Keep it as it is
2) If possible, move the contents into Learning Greek and cancel the whole forum
3) Change it to Beginning Greek
4) change it to Textbooks and Study Groups
5) other

How should we rename Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners?
a) Homeric Greek
b) Homeric Greek and early Greek poetry
c) Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners (no change)
d) other

How should we rename Koine Greek And Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek?
a) Koine Greek (New Testament included)
b) Koine and Biblical Greek
c) Biblical Greek
d) Koine Greek And Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek (no change)
e) other

What should we do with Latin For Beginners by D'Ooge, Wheelock's Latin, M&F's Latin: An Intensive Course?
a) keep the forum names as they are
b) other

Should we change Composition, Discussions & Debateto Writing Greek and Latin, cancel The Academy and move the posts there to Civilization and Culture?
a) Yes
b) No

[daivid]

Changing the name of the forum is easy.
Deleting a forum is easy but that would mean the loss of all the posts so I don't think we would want to do that.
I don't know how to transfer posts from one forum to another. I'm not sure it is even possible. Hence we should probably take any option that involves merges off the table.

[jeidsath]

My suggestion for the Greek forums: Name the forums what they are.

This means that Learning Greek is fine, and the Koine and Homeric Greek forums should get the textbooks removed from their names.

The "First Greek Book - White" forum is dead. How to fix it? Rename it to "Textbooks and Study Groups." It does make sense to have a separate forum for going through textbooks.

[Paul Derouda]

Ok, I edited my post.

[bedwere]

It is possible to transfer single posts from one forum to another. I don't know whether it is possible to do it en masse.

[daivid]

Paul has just explained to me how to move topics. For a forum with as few posts as White it would not be to much trouble to move all the topics to another subforum and then delete the empty forum.
(Assuming we want to do that of course.)

Thanks Paul.

[daivid]

How should we rename Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners?
a) Homeric Greek
b) Homeric Greek and early Greek poetry
c) Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners (no change)
d) other

How should we rename Koine Greek And Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek?
a) Koine Greek (New Testament included)
b) Koine and Biblical Greek
c) Biblical Greek
d) Koine Greek And Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek (no change)
e) other

These options seem to cover everything and I think they could be posed as above now.

Should we change Composition, Discussions & Debateto Writing Greek and Latin, cancel The Academy and move the posts there to Civilization and Culture?
a) Yes
b) No

These are two different questions and should be split.

The Academy is for philosophical discussion of any sort and most of the questions have little relevance to Greece and Rome. However, as wanting to read Plato and Aristotle in the original is one of the reasons for leaning Greek we are likely to have members who enjoy this. It is not heavily used but why not keep it for those who wish to. (Which does not include myself)

Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans is one of my favorite subforums. Here only philosophy Greeks and Romans is on topic and for it would water it down by shifting stuff that is not relevant to the Greeks and Romans to there.

On the very different question of changing the name of Composition, Discussions & Debate I would be against Writing Greek and Latin. The current title is an exhortation to get stuck in while the alternative comes over a bit theoretical to me.
Composition, Discussions & Debate in Greek and Latin would make things clearer but I would prefer no change to Writing Greek and Latin.

I presume that the poll will allow people to vote for as many options as they wish?

[Paul Derouda]

I presume that the poll will allow people to vote for as many options as they wish?

You can set the number of available options. But wouldn't it be best to set that to one, or maybe two with the questionnaires that have most options?

As for the the Academy and the composition forum, I agree, it's a bit more complex than that, I just wanted to get the discussion going!

[daivid]

I presume that the poll will allow people to vote for as many options as they wish?

You can set the number of available options. But wouldn't it be best to set that to one, or maybe two with the questionnaires that have most options?

What if we have, say 4 people wanting Homeric Greek but happy with Homeric Greek and early Greek poetry, then 4 having a similar preference but the other way round. Lets imagine that all 8 agree that no change is not an option.
Opposed to them are 5 for no change.

As the software doesn't allow polls using a Condorcet method allowing multiple votes would be the best 2nd best.

Or have I misunderstood you?

[Paul Derouda]

Ok, so let them vote for several if they wish!

[ariphron]

Three main categories of posts in Learning Greek:

1. General discussions of the language and study techniques
2. Discussion of interpretation and textual issues for specific texts
3. Textbooks and Study Groups.

If we reorganize, then barring a massive job of sorting through the archives, old posts from at least one of these categories will end up in the wrong forum. I think it would matter the least least in the case of the last group; thus I second Joel's suggestion of renaming White to "Textbooks and Study Groups." Also, this name gives a relatively objective standard for where to put a new thread: if it references a specific textbook, it belongs there; otherwise it goes in "Learning Greek." Many threads span categories 1 and 2; it would be harder to segregate those.

I would like to see the Composition Board/Agora divided into separate Greek and Latin fora; as things stand now, I can't tell from looking at the main page whether there are new compositions in Greek or if all the new ones are Latin!

[bedwere]

I would like to see the Composition Board/Agora divided into separate Greek and Latin fora; as things stand now, I can't tell from looking at the main page whether there are new compositions in Greek or if all the new ones are Latin!

Separating Greek and Latin fora for conversation and composition would create Latin and Greek ghettos.
Although one is entitled to his preferences between Greece and Rome, keeping an open and curious mind is something that every classicist, whether professional or amateur, should aim at. Having to open the composition to tell the language is a very small price to pay. Besides, what about compositions that are written in both languages?

[Paul Derouda]

Ok, I posted 4 different polls about renaming forums. I hope I took everything into account – if there's something missing/wrong, tell about it double quick! The polls will run and remain stickied for 7 days.

I didn't make a poll about the more controversial composition/discussion forums yet, since I don't know what to ask.

[Paul Derouda]

The polls have run for 7 days now – shall we just accept the names that got most support or does someone wish to protest?

Perhaps "Greek Textbooks and Study Groups", adding the word "Greek" clarity?

We should rewrite the blurbs too.