I found a 16th century manuscript

Agrippa · Post by **Agrippa** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:17 pm

As the title says, I have come across a manuscript from 1572 Spain written in Latin. I cannot understand what it says exactly, because of the handwriting, which is beautiful though difficult for me to understand. It's written on what seems like hide. What I need is some help understanding what it says. As well as the date, I got the gist that this is a will from Baptista Queyto of Valencia, and there's a rather ornate-looking symbol at the bottom. I don't have a scanner, but I have a pretty good camera, so if there's interest I'll put some pictures up. Thanks.

Lucus Eques · Post by **Lucus Eques** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:58 pm

There most certainly is! Ostende nobis!

Agrippa · Post by **Agrippa** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:35 pm

I'll tell you what, luce, since my camera uploads slow, while they upload, I'll post pictures from another document I found which I have already photographed, and because of the handwriting and condition, remains kind of a mystery. I found others too, but they were from the 18th century and in English, several signed by George III, and, unfortunately, are not with me at the moment.

I have fourteen more pictures of this document, whatever it is, though it seems like a theological work.

edonnelly · Post by **edonnelly** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:48 pm

Where do you find these things?

Agrippa · Post by **Agrippa** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:59 pm

Let's say I know a guy who knows a guy who knew an obsessive compulsive, retired professor who collected this and that fanatically and then died leaving a house full of old, coackroach-eaten books and things. Yours truly was brave enough to enter said house, despite the fact it smelled horrible and was full of insects. It's fully legal, I assure you.

Agrippa · Post by **Agrippa** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:32 pm

I hope it's legible, but if it isn't, I'll upload other stuff. Some things are just throwing me off. In the first like he seems to say "Ego Baptista queyto nott*." I have no clue what that eight-looking thing is, and I can't even find anything in my dictionary that starts with "nott." I wish I could understand his script.

Hu · Post by Hu » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:14 pm

It seems to be quite legible. I bet that 8-looking thing is a ligature of some kind or a weird conjuct.

cdm2003 · Post by **cdm2003** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:45 am

That is really cool...anyway, I'd love to spend some time looking at these pictures...I am utterly fascinated with the palaeography.

For now, though, your "nott" followed by the squiggly is not going to be in a regular dictionary. You need to grab yourself a reference on Medieval Palaeography. You can find used copies of Cappelli's Dizionario di Abbreviature Latine ed Italiane for extremely reasonable prices.

Anyway, the "nott" with squiggle stands for "notarius." Some authorities suggest that the entire marking stands for "notarius subscripsi" in previous centuries (with the squiggle usually above the "nott"), but I can't find any reference stating that that was any author's intent past the XV century.

Please let me know if there are other marks I can help with.

Chris

Agrippa · Post by **Agrippa** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:21 am

Wow, thanks a lot, Chris. A. Cappelli's is awesome. I'm still having just a bit of trouble making it out. Here's what I'm getting from the first line:

IN DEI NOMINE AMEN Nouerint (no clue) g Ego Baptista Queyto nottarius (subscripsi) civitatis valencie habit(curly eight again) ut et...

and as you can see it's still a bit difficult for me, though I'm going to spend some quality time with A. Cappelli tomorrow, so we'll see what happens then.

Misopogon · Post by **Misopogon** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:11 am

Very interesting.
Capelli seems to be a useful book, I gonna buy a copy - the price is reasonable - but I've also found it online:
http://www.hist.msu.ru/Departments/Medieval/Cappelli/

Regards
Misopogon

cdm2003 · Post by **cdm2003** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:57 pm

This is what I read from the first line...his marks are very stylized but his handwritting is incredibly neat:

IN DEI NOMINE AMEN Noverint universi quod Ego, Baptista Queyto, notarius civitatis Valencie habitatus, ut et tanquam procurator Reverendi (B)onafin Serra presbiteri Faore pagine magistri benefficiatique in sede Valencie, eiusdem civitatis Valencie habitatus...

Now, my poor attempt at a translation...I am unfamiliar with the political structures of the region and time period so if I get the offices wrong, please forgive me.

In the name of God, Amen. Be it known to all that I, Baptista Queyto, notary of the city of Valencia in which I live, and as such also procurator to the Reverend Bonafin Serra, from the prebytery in the region of Faore, judge and invested officer in the seat of Valencia, of the same city of Valencia in which I live...

As he's the local financial officer, perhaps he hid some of the Church's gold near his will!

Chris

corrigo semel...I had typo'd the second "habitatus."