300 watch the trailer if you are brave enough

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IreneY
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300 watch the trailer if you are brave enough

Post by IreneY » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:08 am

OK so from what I understand this film is based on a graphic novel. But couldm't they set it in an alternative universe or something? Name them Sportons and Porsiens ? URGH!

http://300themovie.warnerbros.com/

(the trailer is under "media")
Last edited by IreneY on Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 300 watch the trailer if you are brave enough

Post by annis » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:41 pm

IreneY wrote: But could they set it in an alternative universe or something?
A very muscular alternative universe.
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Post by IreneY » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:29 pm

LOL. True. Sorry for the type ("could" instead of "couldn't") but I was still busy groaning. It has a definitely LOTR feel as I see it and it must be the first time in my life I have felt so sorry about the poor Persians (although I did "love" the concept of a war-rhino; right out of Herodotus). You keep expecting who I can only suppose is Xerxes (you know, that bald guy without a beard sitting on that throne thingy?) to send the undead kings against Fredonidas and his Companions.
I bet that if they've worked Ephialtes into it he goes "gollum" all the time. (and I am willing to bet that the Thespians are -again- out of the picture).

Edit: Just checked Wikipedia. Ephialtes is there and he's a hunchback. Sorry, my mistake. He doesn't go "Gollum". He just goes by the name "Wormtongue"

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Post by thesaurus » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:20 am

It isn't based on a graphic novel, it's just "inspired by graphic novelist Frank Miller," i.e. the guy who did the movie (and graphic novel series) Sin City.

I'm not much of a history geek, so that looks really, really cool.

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Post by IreneY » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:15 am

My fault. Inspired then.

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Post by Paul » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:37 am

Hmm....given current east/west tensions, I wonder about the timing of this film....

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Post by swiftnicholas » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:37 am

I believe it is indeed based on a graphic novel of the same name.

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Post by IreneY » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:15 am

Well I am not really interested myself if it inspired or based (though I think it is based on the novel which is inspired by the famous novel).

They want the few fall heroically defending whatever against many scenario? Use it. You want to have the good guys looking like a cross between cinematic Conan the Barbarian and ancient warriors and the bad guys looking like Orcs? Fine by me!
You want the good guys to do Matrix tricks and jump in the air to stub the enemy. Cool! Nice effects? Brilliant! War-rhinos? Excellent! I'll probably love such a nonsence movie with cool effects.
Why do you have to butcher history to do so however? I'm a fanstasy fan so books, graphic novels A-Z movies of that genre are a favourite past time for me.

How about leaving history out of it though?


P.S. Paul the depiction of the "easterners" as totally evil does make you think doesn't it?

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Post by Kopio » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:32 am

I think it looks good, but perhaps a little too risque for my tastes....blood and guts....I'm all over that though.

I think the historical narrative of the story doesn't need much embelishment to make it a great story....I mean....what's with all those freaky lookin dudes?? They just didn't look right. What is this...."The Hills Have a Thousand Eyes" meets Herodotus??

Oohh...that reminds me...I just bought "The Gladiator" on DVD (and I just got a new HDTV to watch it on) Time for some popcorn and carnage :)

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Post by annis » Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:06 pm

I wonder if this movie will cause anyone to maybe, you know, read Herodotus.
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Post by Amadeus » Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:11 pm

Speaking of movies, there's a new member posting links to porn movies. :shock:
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Post by annis » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:13 pm

Amadeus wrote:Speaking of movies, there's a new member posting links to porn movies. :shock:
Not no mo'.

I predict that in 5 years there will be only two sorts of job on the planet — spamming, and cleaning up after spamming.
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Post by 1%homeless » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:07 am

Why all the muscle hate? :P I read about this being turned into a movie a while ago. Nice to see Frank Miller is being less apprehensive about working with "Hollywood". The NIN sountrack is a nice touch. Very gorgeous lighting. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with historical fiction. I think documentary style cinema is more suitable for watching history. The history channel is a favorite channel of mine.

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Post by IreneY » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:54 am

You consider what the trailer shows historical fiction?

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Post by Kopio » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:05 am

1%....nice to see you around....I always wonder where some of our more prolific posters are when they aren't around.

Oh yes, and IreneY...you got it wrong, 1% meant historical fiction :)

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Post by IreneY » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:02 pm

Oh I saw the 'fiction' part of the movie in the trailer. I am missing the 'historical' part though (or how it can be compared with history's channel documentaries). For me it takes more than taking a historical event as your base to have a historical something.

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Post by Kopio » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:22 pm

I don't know...I've read historical fiction that had nothing to do with "history", they were merely set in a historical timeframe. I think that is where this movie sets. A long time ago, in a land far, far away...

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Post by IreneY » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:01 pm

Kopio wrote:I don't know...I've read historical fiction that had nothing to do with "history", they were merely set in a historical timeframe. I think that is where this movie sets. A long time ago, in a land far, far away...
Different interpetations of the term then :) Oh, the the "far, far away" is pretty relative ;)

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Post by annis » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:11 pm

IreneY wrote:You consider what the trailer shows historical fiction?
:)

I'm going to go into 300 with the same mindset as I'd go into a Zhang Yimou (Hero, House of Flying Daggers) or any other wuxia movie with — the story exists only as a canvas for stunning cinematography. Sort of like opera, the story is absurd but it doesn't matter since you're really there for the music.
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Post by 1%homeless » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:30 am

I always wonder where some of our more prolific posters are when they aren't around.
Just got back from Cambodia. :D

For me it takes more than taking a historical event as your base to have a historical something.
For me, it doesn't take more than having a historical event as your base. :D I would even consider a novel about the assumption of Hitler winning WW2 as historical fiction. Turning history into fantasy isn't a modern phenomenon. Quite a bit of myth/religion is based on history and I would consider some of those stories historical fiction as well. I would not cringe if someone refered the Iliad as historical fiction. I see we are going to have an argument over semantics... :)

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Post by Rindu » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:19 pm

Looks like the Persian armies are composed of orcs and cave trolls--what?

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Post by IreneY » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:57 pm

1%homeless wrote:
For me, it doesn't take more than having a historical event as your base. :D I would even consider a novel about the assumption of Hitler winning WW2 as historical fiction. Turning history into fantasy isn't a modern phenomenon. Quite a bit of myth/religion is based on history and I would consider some of those stories historical fiction as well. I would not cringe if someone refered the Iliad as historical fiction. I see we are going to have an argument over semantics... :)

Nahh! No argument really. Just an agreement that we disagree with what "historical" means in this case. Perhaps my take on it has to do with the way we term movies and books and whatnot that take place in the past (on this earth and not a parallel universe as in e.g. G.G. Kay's books) but have little to do with history. These are called "period books/movies" (my translation). They are set in the past, true, but have little or nothing to do with history.

I would term this particular movie a "fantasy" one however.True, it takes place in the past. True, it has supposedly something to do with a historical event. True, it seems to take so many liberties with the past and that particular event that watching it as a "historical" one would grate on my nerves (I saw the trailer again by the way; looks like the Spartans -who also seem to have a tendency to shout- threw the emissaries on a well thingy).
Watching in for the effects and the war-rhino and the matrix-like attack of the Spartans is another matter altogether.

I must afterall admit that it doesn't butcher history any worse than Hercules and Xena butchered mythology and it has much cooler effects.

My main problem is that being a history geek and knowing the event of the Persian wars really, really well (not that I had much choice on the matter) I will probably groan no matter what.

Plus, I cannot help wondering about what I've mentioned in my first post. WHY did Miller (Sin city I like by the way) have to use an actual event and set his comic in this earth?

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Post by Mofmog » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:36 pm

I'm pretty sure the Iliad was pretty inaccurate but it's still pretty awsome.

If anything, this film is more "historical" in that it depicts certain events in a more "mythical" light, with more of a primordial bravado around it. I mean, did men really jump out of giant wooden horse statues (I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW)? Probably not, but it's still a really cool story.

I think people are just really tired of the uber-complex character and are shifting more towards the idea of a "heroic ideal" that we see in "V for Vendetta" and in many ancient myths and stories.

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Post by IreneY » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:58 am

With all due respect V is an uber-complex character if you ask me (especially in the comic) :)

And why depict the poor Persians as an Evil Empire? It wasn't an evil one really. And why depict the poor Spartans as bellowing barbarians? They weren't the most sophisticated people but ... Oh, and another thing: I am willing to bet good money that, when the Spartans -instead of the Athenians- commit the, well, crime of chucking the emissaries into a well, we are not supposed to boo.

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Post by Voxforascausa » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:58 am

Man, they made some pretty funny things over at YTMND related to it.
http://thisisspartaaa.ytmnd.com/ is probably the only one you'd find funny, though.
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Post by IreneY » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:31 am

That was funny indeed. As to the rest well, try me :D And if you (all) know of any good parody of ancient Greek whatever do tell me about it! I love good parodies and anything fun-related I enjoy (provided there IS some real humour involved).

Don't get me wrong: I don't consider everything related to history or ancient Greece or whatever sacred (or else I wouldn't have created a little home-made comic parody about Oedipus Rex in high-school :D). Parody is one thing: Not being able to come up with a fictional fantasy scenario yourself and using a "real" story and butchering it instead is quite another.

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Post by EgoIoYoEu » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:04 pm

Ummmm.....that movie was DA BOMB! Just saw it last night on IMAX....easily the best movie I've seen in a year.
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Post by Paul » Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:09 pm

Saw it last night.

Visually stunning.

A bit over the top in places, but we are dealing with a Frank Miller comic book, er, pardon me, graphic novel here.

There were a few nods to historical accuracy, e.g., the character Ephialtes and the Phocians guarding the hidden pass.

I was, however, surprised to learn that Xerxes was in the avant-garde of research and experimentation in genetic engineering.

Cordially,

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Post by Amadeus » Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:09 pm

It got two big thumbs up! I think I'll go see it. 8)
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Post by annis » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:16 pm

Paul wrote:I was, however, surprised to learn that Xerxes was in the avant-garde of research and experimentation in genetic engineering.
And, evidently, sex reassignment surgury.

I just saw it with some friends, like AhamAhukMéEk, at an IMAX. No one got vertigo and threw up, always a danger at the IMAX.

Visually, it's stunning. Historical touches, as well as a few literary echoes, make it hard for me to separate the film from the history it pillages for its subject. Needless to say, it makes a hash of history and plays loose even with the literary quotes — ῥήμασι is rendered "laws" at the end of the film(cf. D 92).

I feel more world leaders should have to strut around in a thong.

Anyway, it's pretty cool to look at but I'm ambivalent about the content.
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Post by cantator » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:00 am

annis wrote:... it's pretty cool to look at but I'm ambivalent about the content.
I re-read the details of the battle in the summary on Wikipedia. Given the amazing odds the Spartans faced, the story needs little embellishment to come across as a remarkable event.

300 isn't history, it's an entertainment, and I doubt Frank Miller intended a history lesson so much as a variation on a truly incredible theme. Yeh, yeh, orcs and monsters and perverted priests (gee, no-one's complained about them yet) are anything but historically accurate, but I still got a large charge from the movie. I go to the movies expecting to be entertained. When I want a history lesson I read a historian. EOF.
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Post by Deudeditus » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:17 pm

Well considering that ever since I learned about Thermopylae in the 6th/7th grade or so, I have loved it, or at least the ideas carried with it, I was pretty hesitant to watch the movie. I think, from the reviews on Textkit alone :D , I'm going to go ahead and spend the almost-ten-dollars-times-two and watch it tonight. I'm sure I'll like it. Blood. Gore. Spartans. What more could I ask for? Orcs? what? I LOVE Tolkien!!
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Post by Bert » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:53 pm

I hardly ever watch movies. I think I have only watched 2 movies made from a book and I was disappointed both times.

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history? Myth? or Fiction?

Post by Turendil » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:08 pm

In his book witness to a century george seldes, takes on several innacuracies listed in history books. One such is Perishing's capture of San Mihel. Which according to seldes didn't happen. Seldes was there I trust Seldes. However in the defense of those who write books that may be a bit off on somethings. it's hard sometimes to reconcile the events and their interpetations. If historically we can't get something right with regard to the First world war. How much harder therefore is it to acquire a decent understanding of say the trial of socrates where we only have one source (plato) and that source hates athenian democracy from the get go. I think that more error makes it into history than we like to think about. However this does not invalidate the study of history. In a nutshell I like to think about history as giving insight into the human condition much like a myth or a film. THe major difference being that History actually happened and the great events which define it happen at a confluens of people with events. Every person has their own dislikes and habits of character. So in some ways if you think about it long enough the only difference between history and film is that History has may authors and a film only has one.

"For most history is guessing and the rest is prejudice" -Will durant.
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Post by decurion » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:18 pm

I've been noticing how everytime we retell a piece of history or myth through movies (especially made-for-TV movies, Hallmark's Jason and the Argonauts & Odyssey) we often interject our own principles and values into the plot, and in some cases, completely overriding the original cultural values.
Like Gladiator, which plays on our democratic sentiments with M. Aurelius' dream of Rome being a republic again. Whee! But was Rome less corrupt when it was a republic? Who cares! Monarchy is bad!
Or like Troy, where the primary Greek value of the Iliad--i.e., why people should avoid vindictive anger brought about by pride--was substituted with the cliched, modern sentiment of "why romantic love is the only thing worth living for and war is only waged by greedy, mean thugs against innocents." It's naive garbage filmakers put in there because audiences would probably be confused and upset to hear a story where there isn't a clear distinction of good guy/bad guy and every character was flawed, culpable in some respect, and we come to realize the tragic nature of our existence.
I'm sure 300 does this too--espcially with the subplots about the ephors being corrupt or the fickleness of the Spartan assembly. However, I think the overarching message of the movie remains the same as that of the historical battle: that a few free men stood against a despot's armies, that they did so knowing their doom was at hand, and that they helped save their way of life with their self-sacrifice. As for freedom and what that means, understand it as you wish--the movie says nothing about helots and the like--however it seems best to realize just that the Spartans (and their Phocian friends) stayed there of their own volition, that they did so freely. Just ignore the Thebans who stayed against their will.

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Post by Lucus Eques » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:29 am

300 was an amazing film. As said director Zach Snyder: It is an opera, not a documentary.

And opera it was. A painting, even:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jacq ... id_004.jpg

Not only was the film excedingly loyal to Herotidus, it was extremely well done. I did not feel even a moment of tædium. The balance of battle with calm was perfect. It was great film, great cinema, and great entertainment.

The liberties and dramatizations taken in 300, all good choices, cannot even compare with, say, Gladiator, where history says that Commodus was murdered in his bath, not defeated in the Colosseum. Why did they dye Colin Farell's hair blond? Don't get me started on Ben Hur. The truth of 300 far outweighs them all.
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Post by Lucus Eques » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:37 am

annis wrote:Needless to say, it makes a hash of history and plays loose even with the literary quotes — ῥήμασι is rendered "laws" at the end of the film(cf. D 92).
Frank Miller was not the first:

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
that here, obedient to their laws, we lie
Steven Pressfield, in Gates of Fire

Go tell the Spartans, thou that passest by,
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.
William Lisle Bowels

Stranger, bear this message to the Spartans,
that we lie here obedient to their laws.
W. R. Paton

Stranger, report this word, we pray, to the Spartans,
that lying Here in this spot we remain, faithfully keeping their laws
G. C. Macaulay
L. Amadeus Ranierius

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Post by annis » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:17 pm

Lucus Eques wrote:
annis wrote:Needless to say, it makes a hash of history and plays loose even with the literary quotes — ῥήμασι is rendered "laws" at the end of the film(cf. D 92).
Frank Miller was not the first:
Cicero also took it that way. I made the same point on the classics-l list, which brought up a few interesting points: classics-l thread. Just keep hitting the "next in thread" link at the bottom.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Post by annis » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:22 pm

Lucus Eques wrote:As said director Zach Snyder: It is an opera, not a documentary.
What? There weren't any damsels afflicted with TB singing dying arias!

I don't know about opera, but 300 is the most faithful rendering on film of the comic visual style I have ever seen. A number of reviewers complained about the stop-start framing effect in the fight scenes without, I think, recognizing it for what it was. The usual comparison is to The Matrix, but that misses the point.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Post by edonnelly » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:48 pm

decurion wrote:I've been noticing how everytime we retell a piece of history or myth through movies (especially made-for-TV movies, Hallmark's Jason and the Argonauts & Odyssey) we often interject our own principles and values into the plot, and in some cases, completely overriding the original cultural values.
But isn't this what all cultures (even the ancient Greeks) do -- adapt the stories/mythos of other cultures and make them their own?
The lists:
G'Oogle and the Internet Pharrchive - 1100 or so free Latin and Greek books.
DownLOEBables - Free books from the Loeb Classical Library

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