Huge Latin Language Resource on Net Temporarily; HELP

Kynetus Valesius · Post by **Kynetus Valesius** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:45 pm

Hi all,

I've just received notice that a there is a pdf on the net of a document called something like "Phraeseologia Wagneri". This supposedly is a great resource for people wishing to write/speak latin. The problem is that this file is too big apparently for me to download and that it won't be available on the net for long. It's like a one time deal. Can someone try to snag it for US. We can figure out what we are going to do with it later (i.e., break it into smaller pdfs or digitalize). Here is the link which I've run through "tinyurl":

http://tinyurl.com/ajtzz

I'll be very grateful if someone can assist.

Kynetus

annis · Post by **annis** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:35 pm

Got it.

Copyright 1800s - at least we know that's free and clear.

It is a monster.

Episcopus · Post by **Episcopus** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:33 pm

A wonderful text, I want it offline tee-hee

Carola · Post by **Carola** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:53 pm

I've got it - what do you want done with it? (no rude replies!) Do you want it copied on a CD and posted to you?

edonnelly · Post by **edonnelly** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:06 pm

Carola wrote:I've got it

I was just going to post the same thing. We must have been downloading at the same time. No wonder it was so slow...

By the way, what crazy person scanned this whole thing in? It looks amazing.

Kynetus Valesius · Post by **Kynetus Valesius** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:54 pm

Actually, folks, in the end I was able to get it too; it's on my work computer! Egad! In any event, thanks at least several gazillions! I found out about this through the other forum (GLL) that I've mentioned here several times recently. It was a fresh post so maybe that explains the slowness of the downloads. Dunno. Anyway it is a good thing that some copies were snaggged because the poster had made clear that's availability was strictly temporary.

After he'd gotten it, the moderator of GLL wrote to us that from now on, he would be using this "fons" as his primary composition assistant. But I don't know what he meant. Would he consult it electronically or print it out for a giant binder? I wrote him a letter to find out. In my own case, however, although I wouldn't mind having a physical copy, a usable copy on the net would be optimum - it's just my style of working. If textkit would (uh oh, there he goes again!) consider making it available in some kind of fragmented but more accessible form similar to the one used by the French site I referenced in my favorite links post I think it might become very popular with advanced latinists. Please, don't get me wrong; I am by no means posing as such a person, or even as anything close to that. I do however run all over the net trying to figure out what these folks are up to and know more than a few through either public or private correspondence or by reputation. Utut res se habet, kindly consider, dear moderators and influential persons, making this available to a wider audience. I wouldn't consider it a drawback either that brief definitions are given in French because anyone able to negotiate the latin could probably penetrate the French as well.
Valete,
Kynetus VALESIUS

FiliusLunae · Post by **FiliusLunae** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:04 am

Thanks a lot, Kynetus. It's indeed pretty cool. But yeah, the download was slow! Hehe.. in any case, worth it. I do agree with you in that people involved with Latin are likely to have at least a workable knowledge of French.

Kynetus Valesius · Post by **Kynetus Valesius** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:28 am

One more thing: edonnelly wrote

By the way, what crazy person scanned this whole thing in? It looks amazing.

I have only been able to get a glimpse (very slowly) of a couple of pages and yes the entries do look amazing - a dictionary of phrases organized around key words. I dimly recall someone (Vojin Nedeljkovic) from Eastern Europe talking about it on GLL, then follow-up discussion, and then Vojin saying how he'd scan it when he had the chance. Then today came the announcement that it was ready, but to hurry up and rush! His sujbect line read "Opus Laudibile..." Kynetus

annis · Post by **annis** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:41 am

If only someone would do this with the Greek Gradus...

amans · Post by **amans** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:32 am

Having downloaded it successfully, I closed the Adobe Reader by accident

Now, I can't find it on the PC and if I try to download it a second time I get an error message. Anyone knows why?

annis · Post by **annis** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:19 pm

Kynetus Valesius wrote:I dimly recall someone (Vojin Nedeljkovic) from Eastern Europe talking about it on GLL, then follow-up discussion, and then Vojin saying how he'd scan it when he had the chance. Then today came the announcement that it was ready, but to hurry up and rush!

I've contacted Jeff about having Textkit host this. While I wait for a reply, could you get permission from Vojin for Textkit to host it if Jeff consents? The text is of course out of copyright, but it's polite to ask before lifting people's efforts.

edonnelly · Post by **edonnelly** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:36 pm

amans wrote:Having downloaded it successfully, I closed the Adobe Reader by accident Now, I can't find it on the PC and if I try to download it a second time I get an error message. Anyone knows why?

I know different browsers use different temporary caches, and IE sometimes stores pdf's in places other than its usual cache and often changes the name (including the extension). You might search by date and see if anything on the order of 56,812 KB is anywhere on your PC if you still can't download it.

If textkit does end up hosting this, Jeff will probably apply some compression to it, making it a little easier for everyone to manage.

Jeff Tirey · Post by **Jeff Tirey** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:50 pm

annis wrote:
Kynetus Valesius wrote:I dimly recall someone (Vojin Nedeljkovic) from Eastern Europe talking about it on GLL, then follow-up discussion, and then Vojin saying how he'd scan it when he had the chance. Then today came the announcement that it was ready, but to hurry up and rush!
I've contacted Jeff about having Textkit host this. While I wait for a reply, could you get permission from Vojin for Textkit to host it if Jeff consents? The text is of course out of copyright, but it's polite to ask before lifting people's efforts.

This would be a good file to host, but I need to contact the creator and get permission.
Jeff

Kynetus Valesius · Post by **Kynetus Valesius** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:12 pm

Dear Jeff, Annis, Others

I reproduce the creator's note to GLL offering the file. As I take it, he grants permission to anyone (quis) wishing to display (proponere) the downloaded (deportum) file anywhere in the net (alibi interretis). Let me know if you require anything further. Regards. Kynetus

Vojin Nedeljkovic sodalibus s. d.

En digitalis factus liber de quo olim locuti sumus:

dekart.f.bg.ac.yu/~vnedeljk/privrem/wagner_phraseologiae-corpus.pdf

Qui scapus cum sit 57 MBorum, tamen multis, ut opinor, non solum inspectu sed etiam deportatu dignus videbitur. Deportate igitur, et cito; neque enim diu illic manere poterit; et deportatum si quis alibi interretis proponere volet, faciat strenue.

Kynetus Valesius · Post by **Kynetus Valesius** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:07 pm

Dear People,

In case the general implicit permission quoted in my previous post is not sufficient, I now post an exchange from GLL between me and Vojin Nedeljkovic, the person who did the scanning and who posted the result yesterday to the net. In his response to me, Nedeljkovic grants permission to textkit to post the material to the net and exhibit it in perpetuity. Papae!

Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:37:49 +0200
Reply-To: Grex Latine loquentium GREX <GREX@MAN.TORUN.PL>
Sender: Grex Latine loquentium GREX <GREX@MAN.TORUN.PL>
From: Vojin Nedeljkovic
Subject: Re: Opus laudabile
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
reply-type=original

> Omnibus salutem > > Nunc mihi est scaphus nam tandem post operam strenuam eum ex reti in meum > computatrum extraxi. Possum eum legere et quaerere. Gratias! > > Nunc autem moderatores alius fori (textkit) volunt scaphum in situ suo > proponere. Quod laudo. Attamen illud facere recusant dum recipiant > permissionem explicitam a eo qui laborem perfecit. Quam mitte, Voijne > optime, quam primum, quaeso. Curate ut valeatis quam latinissme. Kynetus

Ajo ego Vojin Nedeljkovic Belgradensis nihil per me obstare quominus scapi a me repositi ad dekart.f.bg.ac.yu/~vnedeljk/privrem/wagner_phraseologiae-corpus.pdf exemplar transferatur perpetuoque exhibeatur in situ interretiali societatis 'Textkit'.

temp · Post by **temp** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:16 am

Yes, but are you sure he is happy with you posting his private web directory address on this site?

Kynetus Valesius · Post by **Kynetus Valesius** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:59 pm

Dear temp (?)

Do you have a name?

I didn't post his "private web directory" unless you mean his email address. Now perhaps that was a lapse on my part. On the other hand, I didn't think he'd mind. The reason I included it, lapse or not, was in case the moderators were not satisfied with the forwarded emails from him and wished to contact him directly regarding the permissions to use his material.

But now I'm kinda of worried that I did commit a blunder. Is there any way his email address can be subtracted from my previous post?

Kynetus

edonnelly · Post by **edonnelly** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:26 pm

Kynetus Valesius wrote:Is there any way his email address can be subtracted from my previous post?

You should still have the ability to edit your own post (look to see if an "edit" button appears by it when you are logged in). Otherwise, only the moderators can edit it.

temp · Post by **temp** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:01 am

Kynetus Valesius wrote:Do you have a name?

Yes.

Kynetus Valesius wrote:I didn't post his "private web directory" unless you mean his email address.

I was referring to the bit with the “dekart.f.bg.ac.yu/~******/*******/”.

My understanding of the message was that he was making available a copy for you to transfer and display permanently on textkit, rather than allowing direct access to his own copy.

I may well have misunderstood his message - which is more than likely as I could not find a meaningful translation of ‘scapi’ ( and I don’t actually know Latin ).

From the tone of your reply I seem to have rattled more than I had intended, for which I apologise.

blue · Post by **blue** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:47 am

i hope it joins the textkit resources soon...it kept timing out around the d's every time i tried to load it.

Kynetus Valesius · Post by **Kynetus Valesius** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:20 pm

Dear Temp and Blue

The individual, o temp optime, semi-publicly posted the location of the file (which, it seems, happened to be in his private directory) and invited folks to download it. He also warned that it wouldn't be at that location permanently, presumably because he is only allocated a certain amount of space by his site administrators. All I did was publicize the location a little widely. He knows that I notified the folks at textkit and approves. (I believe).

Blue, I also hope that the textkit administrators can act on this expeditiously. A number of people on the GLL were unsuccessful in their efforts to pull the file on to their drives. Knowing that I did get a copy, they are now asking me to send them copies on CD to Europe, which I'm doing although it's a bit of a hassle. I'll do the same for you if you can't wait until the issue is decided upon here.

Kynetus

ÓBuadhaigh · Post by **ÓBuadhaigh** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:50 pm

Salvete! I've been away studying lesser tongues

through necessity for a while but Latin is back in pole position again.

Can anyone please tell me if anything was ever done about making this resource available? I don't see it on the site but my not being able to find something doesn't ever mean it's not there.

Gratias vobis ago.

Sean

nostos · Post by **nostos** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:05 pm

dammit! When I first saw this I thought Kynetus Valesius was back!

Edit: oops! thought this was about another post till I read it.

ÓBuadhaigh · Post by **ÓBuadhaigh** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:09 pm

Sorry to be a disappointment...

He had good Latin, did Kynetus.

GlottalGreekGeek · Post by **GlottalGreekGeek** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:27 pm

I believe the whole thing about this resource being temporarily availible is that it was only availible for a month or so, and seeing how old this thread is, this resource has probably been removed by now. However, you can ask one of the Textkittens who did download this to email it to you.

ÓBuadhaigh · Post by **ÓBuadhaigh** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:37 pm

Thanks, GGG. Yes, it has definitely gone now but there was some discussion in this thread about chopping it up into manageable chunks (it was a monster file!) and making it available on textkit. It's so big that most people, including me, who tried to download it found that it 'timed out' before completion.

If anyone does have it, and can chop it up, I'd be glad to receive it as a number of emails over a few days - unless of course some computerwizard can come up with a better idea. I only got as far as 'C' each time I tried, but it looked simply marvelous! I see there is a hard copy for sale on abebooks but I'm a few euros short of the $500+ price tag at the minute.

Sean

GlottalGreekGeek · Post by **GlottalGreekGeek** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:52 pm

I didn't think I had downloaded it, but I double checked my files, and lo and behold, there is a 55.4 MB PDF called wagner_phraseologiae-corpus.pdf. It goes up to the letter Z. If you want to arrange with me to chop it up and email you (I think I can do it, though I probably won't be able to do it until this evening), PM me.

nostos · Post by **nostos** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:23 pm

Ó‚uadhaigh wrote:Sorry to be a disappointment...

He had good Latin, did Kynetus.

You weren't a dissapointment, I just thought he'd returned

ÓBuadhaigh · Post by **ÓBuadhaigh** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:32 pm

Sorry, nostos, I haven't figured out which emoticon to use for friendly and jocular sarcasm. Perhaps

would do?

I have to confess that, a few days ago, when I checked out the forum for the first time in months I was keeping an eye out for Kynetus amongst others and was disappointed to see he hadn't posted since. Does he hang out anywhere else?

Sean

ÓBuadhaigh · Post by **ÓBuadhaigh** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:28 pm

GGG, PM'd you. Thanks.

Ciraric · Post by **Ciraric** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:47 pm

So, who has it and how large?

Is it email-able.

nostos · Post by **nostos** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:56 pm

I think ':P' is the friendly and jocular sarcasm one, at least that's how I use it most of the time. Not sure it's interpreted that way tho.

Anyway I'm pretty sure he hangs out on a living Latin chatboard, but I'm not sure which one or what name he goes by. I tried PMing him not too long ago but the message went unviewed for about a week or so, so I erased it. Perhaps one day he'll be back..

edonnelly · Post by **edonnelly** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:09 pm

ï¿½Buadhaigh wrote:I see there is a hard copy for sale on abebooks but I'm a few euros short of the $500+ price tag at the minute.

I believe this is the same book ($80), though probably not the exact same printing:

http://www.owlbridge.com/miva/merchant. ... _Code=1496

(Still not as good as free, though, but not too bad for 912 pages)

ÓBuadhaigh · Post by **ÓBuadhaigh** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:01 pm

Thanks, edonnelly, for that. It doesn't seem to want my money though. To be honest, I'd prefer a reprint to an original; I want to use it, not exhibit it! I'll wait to see what GGG can do about the file before I make any move with the Owl people.

Thanks again. Sean.

Post by **klewlis** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:23 pm

how big is it when zipped?

I might be able to provide a temporary hosting arrangement as well.

bellum paxque · Post by **bellum paxque** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:43 am

If it's ever reduced to a manageable size, I'd like to have it as well.

-David

sokabs · Post by **sokabs** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:28 pm

I am interested in this file, as well. Thanks so much.

Mofmog · Post by **Mofmog** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:15 am

Can I have it emailed to me too? mofmog@gmail.com