Fuel prices

Textkit is a learning community- introduce yourself here. Use the Open Board to introduce yourself, chat about off-topic issues and get to know each other.
Post Reply
Carola
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 12:34 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Fuel prices

Post by Carola » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:18 am

We started talking about fuel prices in another post, so I am going to start another topic about this. Is everone suffering ? We are paying an unprecedented $AUS 1.40 or thereabouts a litre at the moment. I am so glad I have a small car and live on a bus route! Some people in the remote areas are paying another 20-30 cents a litre.

Any more stories about this?

chad
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:55 am

Post by chad » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:54 am

I can't drive, it's not really getting me other than indirectly through other price rises (if any) which I haven't noticed yet...

User avatar
Deudeditus
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:15 am
Location: The world, man.
Contact:

Post by Deudeditus » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:47 am

My friend told me that in Bakersfield (CA, USA) the gas was up to $3.50 a gallon. I don't know the metric equivalent.. haha. just checked it on the very handy site " www.metric-conversions.org " and (if I did my math correctly) that should be 0.93 a litre, US. that's still probably less than AUS (I'm assuming that's Australian) $1.40/litre with the exchange rate and all. It's still alot of money when compared to the current min. wage. $6.75, I believe. But I live 30 miles away from my school which I go to every day, and 10 miles, from the nearest town... Yeah, I have to drive alot. My mom works about 60 miles away... Yay for hybrid cars!!! (Don't have one, but i desperately envy anyone who does.)
Milk prices have gone up in my area, too, strangely enough...

User avatar
Deudeditus
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:15 am
Location: The world, man.
Contact:

Post by Deudeditus » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:48 am

oh yeah, I also used www.exchangerate.com ...

Carola
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 12:34 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Post by Carola » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:16 am

It looks as though $AUS 1.40 equates to about $US 1.08, but our government takes an enormous bite out of the fuel costs - I mean, they all drive around for nothing at our expense!

The one good thing is that it has gotten rid of a lot of those gas guzzling oversized SUV's off the city streets. Most of them have never been driven in the country and why you need a 5 litre 4 wheel drive vehicle to drive to the supermarket has always puzzled me. :D I didn't know we had much rough terrain around the suburbs of Adelaide!

User avatar
Yhevhe
Textkit Fan
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:39 pm
Location: Venezuela

Post by Yhevhe » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:11 am

Having a car here is not that killing - you can entirely fill your tank with some less than US$2. I don't like that that much because there are better options, like natural gas, that would cost like US$0.20 (when expensive) to fill up the tank, or diesel, which is very cheap too, and both are way less poluting. But as nobody cares for their planet...
Last edited by Yhevhe on Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mariek
Global Moderator
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:19 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Fuel prices

Post by mariek » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:16 am

There is a Chevron (gas station) about a mile from where I live where the Premium gas is $3.49 USD per gallon. Eeks! I think that comes out to 0.75 € per litre (assuming exchange rate 1 USD = 0.813124 €).

So what is this in AUD? Um... I think $3.49 USD/gallon is equivalent to 1.19 AUD/litre (1 USD = 1.29905 AUD).

I'm using this formula to get from USD/gallon to X/litre, where X is some other type of currency : X = (USD * exchange rate) * 0.264.

I don't know if this is correct, but I seem to have this formula in a conversion spreadsheet of mine.


Carola
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 12:34 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Post by Carola » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:05 am

Yhevhe wrote:Having a car here is not that killing - you can entirely fill your tank with some less than US$2. I don't like that that much because there are better options, like natural gas, that would cost like US$0.20 (when expensive) to fill up the tank, or diesel, which is very cheap too, and both are way less poluting. But as nobody cares for their planet...
Yes but of course your country is a fuel producer and so the citizens get their fuel at cost price, only fair as this gives the benefit back to all. Wait a minute - Australia is also an oil producer and we pay through the nose!!! And the profits all go to overseas oil companies!!! Mmm - and how do you emigrate to Venezuela?

Mariek - the spreadsheet probably has an old value for the Aust. $ - the value has changed quite a lot recently. I got the value off the sites Deuditus suggested.

yadfothgildloc
Textkit Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: oupou
Contact:

Post by yadfothgildloc » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:13 am

Where I am, it hovers around 3 USD for "regular" grade. +10 cents per grade increase.

User avatar
GlottalGreekGeek
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:37 am
Location: Mountain View

Post by GlottalGreekGeek » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:45 am

Gas prices around here are in the 3 USD a gallon range, a little less perhaps. My family does very little driving, so we do not pay close attention to gas prices. In the big city, walking and public transit suffice. The most direct impact on my life was a recent raise in bus fares, which (to me) seemed to come with less warning than usual. The raise in fares made me get my first monthly pass (which did not rise in price) as it has become more economical.

User avatar
Kopio
Global Moderator
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Boise, ID
Contact:

Post by Kopio » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:55 am

I drive two american cars (not at the same time mind you), My Tahoe get's a whopping 15 mpg.....the other day when I filled it up it cost $64!! Episcopus told me long ago that driving an SUV was a very un-christian thing to do (he equated it to farting in God's face), I'm starting to think at these gas prices, it might be time to repent! Thankfully my wife's car gets about 30mpg....so I've been driving her car a lot lately (sure do miss all that horsepower and comfort though...)

BTW, I only put premium in my cars, and right now it is about $3.10 per gallon where I live.

User avatar
edonnelly
Administrator
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:47 am
Location: Music City, USA
Contact:

Post by edonnelly » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:23 pm

Kopio wrote:Episcopus told me long ago that driving an SUV was a very un-christian thing to do (he equated it to farting in God's face),
Ironically, it is the "environmentalists" that we have to thank for the SUV in the first place. After they pushed through fuel efficiency standard laws for automobiles, the station wagon went the way of the passenger pigeon. Car manufacturers redesigned their station wagons into SUVs, which get classified as trucks and thus don't have to meet the same standards.

annis
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 3399
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Contact:

Post by annis » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:50 pm

Useful concept for the future: hydraulic despotism, except replace hydraulic with hydrocarbon.

I had a bunch of contractors out to bid on some landscaping work around my house. That has been scrapped, and insulation/siding changes are in the works instead.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

User avatar
GlottalGreekGeek
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:37 am
Location: Mountain View

Post by GlottalGreekGeek » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:35 pm

edonnelly wrote:Ironically, it is the "environmentalists" that we have to thank for the SUV in the first place.
I see your point, but I think it is a stretch to pull the responsiblity that far. For the "SUV" specifically yes, but not for inefficient cars in general. A matter of opinion of course.

User avatar
edonnelly
Administrator
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:47 am
Location: Music City, USA
Contact:

Post by edonnelly » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:29 pm

annis wrote:Useful concept for the future: hydraulic despotism, except replace hydraulic with hydrocarbon.
Hmmm, I think we can blame the "environmentalists" here, too. They're the ones who have prevented a large-scale shift to nuclear power (compare to the French who get almost 80% of their electricity from nuclear power).

User avatar
Deudeditus
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:15 am
Location: The world, man.
Contact:

Post by Deudeditus » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:32 pm

I don't think it's any one person or group's fault, personally... The human individual is intellegent, rational and generally willing to change, but the human collective is unmutable without force or radical social changes, does not see the world in a clear manner and quickly forms into smaller factions which attempt to destroy eachother in hopes of being the only faction and solving every problem they can find. But this only leads to the breakdown of the one large faction which, in turn, leads to squabbling over petty ideology by the new smaller ones, which were concieved, in essence, by the same processes that they themselves create with their quest for control. All that (somewhat nonsensically) said, we're ( I'm not referring to any one person or group of people) too busy bickering about what we think should be, and who is to blame for why what we think should be isn't, to realize that no one is to blame. Things are the way they are.
I just think that too many people worry about who is to blame instead of what can be done to rectify any mistakes that were made in the past and prevent any more from being made. But it's a vicious cycle and there's really very little we can do to change or stop it in this cowardly old world... haha :lol: what we need is a new one... preferably brave... :lol:
and that's my rant for today.

User avatar
Yhevhe
Textkit Fan
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:39 pm
Location: Venezuela

Post by Yhevhe » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:35 am

Carola wrote:Mmm - and how do you emigrate to Venezuela?
Dear good God, you don't want to do that right NOW! :? Believe me. There are many beautiful things, but insecurity is growing stronger eveyday.
I wrote:I don't like that that much because there are better options, like natural gas, that would cost like US$0.20 (when expensive)
I quite lied there. It costs like US$0.005 to fill up the entire tank. And yet, almost small little nobody uses it.
edonelly wrote:the French who get almost 80% of their electricity from nuclear power
I envy nations who have nuclear power. My cousin works in a nuclear plant in Canada, and has told me about the process they use in Canada &c... He even promised me some Uranium pieces :D
Deudeditus wrote:what we need is a new one... preferably brave... :lol:
A Spartan world... :twisted:

User avatar
edonnelly
Administrator
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:47 am
Location: Music City, USA
Contact:

Post by edonnelly » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:54 am

Deudeditus wrote:to realize that no one is to blame. Things are the way they are.
Here I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree. I think one of the major problems we have in government (and in modern society in general) is a lack of personal accountability. Energy policies, for example, don't just appear -- someone made a decision and enacted law. The lack of accountability leads people to make decisions and take actions without forethought. Often the goal is short-term political favor without concern for the long-term consequences.
Deudeditus wrote:I just think that too many people worry about who is to blame instead of what can be done to rectify any mistakes that were made in the past and prevent any more from being made.
Blame can be used as a distraction, I'll agree, but to learn from the past we must actually understand what happened and why. Often this requires bringing another's failings to light, no matter how politically incorrect it may seem.

Kasper
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Post by Kasper » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:05 am

edonnelly wrote: The lack of accountability leads people to make decisions and take actions without forethought. Often the goal is short-term political favor without concern for the long-term consequences.
Democracy just doesn't work. We need oligarchy of accountable, intelligent people. People that are created and educated to that purpose, to rule the new world. The brave one.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”

Carola
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 12:34 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Post by Carola » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:09 am

I suppose the saddest thing about all of this is that (a) scientists warned about the fact we would run out of oil this century at least 30 - 40 years ago, (b) politicians totally ignored this or told us it was untrue, (c) now it is happening and no country seems to have prepared. You can apply this same scenario to most other things happening now, from global warming to pandemic viruses.
The next time we have an election I think I might start writing to the candidates to ask them to publish a "plan for the future 50 years" so we can all read it before we vote. Now how much would you like to bet that not one single politician will have even thought about such a thing!

User avatar
Yhevhe
Textkit Fan
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:39 pm
Location: Venezuela

Post by Yhevhe » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:20 am

Kasper wrote:Democracy just doesn't work. We need oligarchy of accountable, intelligent people. People that are created and educated to that purpose, to rule the new world. The brave one.
That would be an aristocracy, wouldn't it? I totally agree with you in this. A real democracy, in our situation, is a dream. A real democracy would require all of that country's inhabitants to be qualified as good rulers.

Sorry to go quite off-topic here.

User avatar
edonnelly
Administrator
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:47 am
Location: Music City, USA
Contact:

Post by edonnelly » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:56 am

Kasper wrote: Democracy just doesn't work. We need oligarchy of accountable, intelligent people. People that are created and educated to that purpose, to rule the new world. The brave one.
We just need more voters like Carola:
Carola wrote: The next time we have an election I think I might start writing to the candidates to ask them to publish a "plan for the future 50 years" so we can all read it before we vote.
The problem is no politician (at least over here) would have any interest in doing such a thing unless he or she could fit it nicely into a 30-second soundbite for the evening news.

User avatar
GlottalGreekGeek
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:37 am
Location: Mountain View

Post by GlottalGreekGeek » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:37 am

Personally, I believe in taking matters into my own hands (such as using less fuel/electricity in my daily life) produces more results than relying on politicians. Of course, it is best to change the world both directly through your own actions and indirectly through politics, so keep up the political pressure. :D

Enviormentalists have good reasons to oppose going overboard on nuclear power. We have yet to find a good method of disposing of nuclear waste. Nuclear power also generates a lot of extremely hot water which is dumped back into local bodies of water (this might be a problem of fossil fuel plants too, though it is generally associated with nuclear power) which destroys the ecology in the water.

From the economic point of view, uranimum is a limited global resource, just like fossil fuels.

Every method of generating electricity has significent enviormental problems. This is why diverse energy sources are best : better to have several moderate enviormental problems than one enviormental problem gone out of control. Have nuclear beside other energy sources, not as a replacement for fossil fuels.

User avatar
Deudeditus
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:15 am
Location: The world, man.
Contact:

Post by Deudeditus » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:40 am

edonnelly wrote:Here I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree. I think one of the major problems we have in government (and in modern society in general) is a lack of personal accountability.
In the Much of what I said wasn't well thought out, nor do I fully believe in most of it. I just decided to rant about cycles and whatnot. But I do agree with you about our general lack of accounatbility... especially in California... disgusting really. there's no emoticon for vomit, but imagine that there is... it would go here (vom).
later,
El Jon

User avatar
Kopio
Global Moderator
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Boise, ID
Contact:

Post by Kopio » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:03 pm

I think that we will grow less dependent on oil, in general, over the next 20-30 years or so. We will increasingly see more hybrid cars, and I think that hydrogen will really be what fazes us out of the need for oil.

The problem is, and in my opinion why it hasn't been puched a lot more, that many countries (and private indivduals) will be completely bust. Do you really think the middle east would be viewed so politically important if they didn't have oil?? I doubt it. I think that they would be just another third world country in most peoples eyes (mind you , I'm not saying that is the correct view, merely what concensus would be). Part of what we have to do as a society, is help these oil producing counties prepare and restructure themselves, so that when the time comes they don't fall into complete and utter chaos and poverty.

I for one would love a hydrogen car, and I like the idea of being more enviromentally friendly (this from the SUV guy!)

User avatar
mariek
Global Moderator
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:19 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by mariek » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:16 pm

Carola wrote:Mariek - the spreadsheet probably has an old value for the Aust. $ - the value has changed quite a lot recently. I got the value off the sites Deuditus suggested.
The spreadsheet just has the conversion from "USD per Gallon" to "other currency per Litre" ... I just have to fill in the blank for the currency rate from USD to ther currency.

I used the USD to AUD exchange rate from www.xe.com. I just checked it against the site Deuditus gave and it appears close enough.

www.xe.com: 1.29814 (last updated 2005.09.14 17:12 Universal Time (GMT))
exchangerate.com: 1.302732 (last updated Tue, 09-13-2005 14:01 (+5 GMT))

Looks like the www.xe.com site is more lately updated, plus the page autorefreshes every minute.

I'm just not 100% certain that the formula in the spreadsheet that converts from "USD per Gallon" to "other currency per Litre" is correct. It was originally set to "FF per Litre", which I changed to "Euro per Litre", and I just assumed it should work just the same for "AUD per Litre". ... and yes, I'm too lazy to do the math right now.

User avatar
GlottalGreekGeek
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:37 am
Location: Mountain View

Post by GlottalGreekGeek » Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:18 am

Kopio wrote:I think that hydrogen will really be what fazes us out of the need for oil.
Do you mean hydrogen as energy storage or as an energy source?

The two ways to produce massive quantities of hydrogen are 1) electrolysis (which means getting equally massive amounts of electricity from something else) 2) getting it from coal, which would release all the bad pollutants and carbon dioxide in the process.

Of course, if the electricity used for electrolysis came from something other than fossil fuels, the world could stop using fossil fuels. The hydrogen then would be a way of storing energy, which could be released in the engine of a car. There are in fact cities in Europe where all public transit runs on hydrogen, and all of the hydrogen is produced with renewable electricity.

As an alternative to storing energy in gasoline, hydrogen can be a savior. But as an alternative source of energy, hydrogen won't save squat (Note : if cold fusion were discovered, this could be a way to get electricity out of hydrogen, but it would have the same problems as nuclear, albeit to a lesser degree).

Excellent point about the economy of "oil countries" when oil becomes obsolete. I wonder what our local Venuzuelan has to say.

Democritus
Textkit Fan
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 12:14 am
Location: California

Post by Democritus » Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:50 am

edonnelly wrote:Here I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree. I think one of the major problems we have in government (and in modern society in general) is a lack of personal accountability.
I'm right there with you on the whole "personal responsibility" meme, but the people who trot it out are themselves often in a big hurry to assign responsibility onto someone else for their own messes. It's always the other guy who has been negelecting personal responsibility.

I hardly think it makes sense to blame environmentalists for the popularity of SUVs. Drivers buy SUVs because they like SUVs, and car makers sell them because they are profitable. They are each responsible for their own actions. People don't buy big gas-guzzling cars because of environmental regulations, but in spite of them. Some people just like big vehicles.

Fuel-efficient cars are available right now, and always have been.

For better or worse, Americans have decided, in personal life and in public policy, to use energy unwisely. There is no sense in trying to shift the blame onto someone else. We've done it to ourselves, through a thousand little choices. We can't blame the politicians, because we elected them. The two parties can't blame each other, because they have been sharing power all this time, and pursuing policies that are quite similar in many ways.

User avatar
Kopio
Global Moderator
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Boise, ID
Contact:

Post by Kopio » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:33 am

GlottalGreekGeek wrote:Do you mean hydrogen as energy storage or as an energy source?
I mean hydrogen like here, and here which would be storage.

User avatar
Yhevhe
Textkit Fan
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:39 pm
Location: Venezuela

Post by Yhevhe » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:33 pm

GlottalGreekGeek wrote:Excellent point about the economy of "oil countries" when oil becomes obsolete. I wonder what our local Venuzuelan has to say.
I don't differ too much from others' points of view.
Kopio wrote:Part of what we have to do as a society, is help these oil producing counties prepare and restructure themselves, so that when the time comes they don't fall into complete and utter chaos and poverty.
I think that "oil countries" have enough resources and time to restructure themselves, but a least in our case, both the people and the rulers don't care about it. Ignorance and ambition is a strong combination, and I don't think any oil country will let other government meddle with their profitable business.

Post Reply