Ancient Currency
- Lucus Eques
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Ancient Currency
I've been reading a lot about sesterii and aurei and asses and the like, and I know how an as was a quarter of a sesterius, and a sestertius was a quarter of a denarius — but is it possible to equate these denominations with our modern currency? Naturally, in a world completely removed from our own, there are different things that are bought and sold, and it goes without saying that technology has completely altered the price of something as simple and common as paper — but I believe there must be a way of getting round estimates of what things cost back then. There are some things that have always been bought and sold: like bread, for instance, which has been made the same way for thousands of years. Can anyone think of other examples? And are there records of a Roman or even a Greek grocery list from ancient times?
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Bread or other prepared food might not even be a good example because of the fact that all these items had to be made by hand, even the flour had to be ground by animal or human power. Perhaps all we could equate was what it cost to eat for a week compared to wages (ie if it cost someone $50 to buy groceries now, and they earned $500 a week, then they spend 10% of their wages on food.) So then we need to see what % of wages the Romans or ancient Greeks spent to feed themselves and I guess that is about as close as we can get to finding some sort of equivalent value.
I think that mass production, machine power and higher living standards make this a very difficult comparison of costs now vs 2000 years ago.
I think that mass production, machine power and higher living standards make this a very difficult comparison of costs now vs 2000 years ago.
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All those currencies are very difficult to compare and get conclusions. The greatest difficulty arises because the economical system was quite different than today, and secondly, even if currency was already invented for some centuries, most people still exchanged goods for other goods. A better approach is to count how many pounds of grain one litre of wine costs. But even in that case the comparison is hard due to slavery. Slaves were the cheapest labour force, so to produce grain or wine did not cost much, and most people would just exchange those goods for free. At the end, people who couldn’t afford to have slaves, they simple became one.
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Re: Ancient Currency
I agree with ThomasGR. I don't think it's possible.Lucus Eques wrote:... but is it possible to equate these denominations with our modern currency?
In fact, in many cases, I don't think it's possible to do this when comparing two modern currencies. It doesn't make sense to say that residents of some poor country subsist on X dollars per year... because the fact is, they don't use dollars there, and the prices and availability of commodities might differ wildly. The basket of things you can buy inside the U.S. for X dollars is quite different from the basket of things you can buy in other countries using the amount of local currency that X dollars can be exchanged for. To put it more simply, theoretical currency equivalencies generally just make no sense. They gloss over so much detail that they are not useful.
It might make more sense to look at what one ounce of silver would buy, since silver was certainly in use as a medium of exchange, and particular examples of exchanges could be found. But again, the price of everything, including silver and the things it buys, might fluctuate a great deal from decade to decade. A big war might cause the price of grain to rise, but the presence of a local silver mine could depress the buying power of silver.
I don't remember ever reading about a grocery list, but I suspect that such things are described, in some places. It would be quite intereseting to investigate ancient prices. Descriptions of military campaigns often note the wages paid to soldiers and the amount of money spent for various supplies. That could be considered a "grocery list" for this purpose.Lucus Eques wrote:There are some things that have always been bought and sold: like bread, for instance, which has been made the same way for thousands of years. Can anyone think of other examples? And are there records of a Roman or even a Greek grocery list from ancient times?
If you are looking for a fertile area of scholarship, this might be a good one. It's just my armchair opinion, but it seems to me that historians are often not terribly interested in economics, and economists who look at ancient history are mostly just looking for evidence to support their own ideology. There might be a lot to learn by an honest look at ancient economics, including commodity prices, taxation, etc.
(But I am certainly no expert so I really have no clue. Perhaps some scholars have already pursued inquiries like this, I don't know.)
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Try this link , it gives prices and wages in ancient Rome , let me know if it is useful .
Philip
http://www.ancientcoins.biz/pages/economy/
Philip
http://www.ancientcoins.biz/pages/economy/
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Re: Ancient Currency
You can't come up with an exact equivelant but surely it is possible to come up with an approximation.Democritus wrote:I agree with ThomasGR. I don't think it's possible.Lucus Eques wrote:... but is it possible to equate these denominations with our modern currency?
...............
It is interesting to find out what references to money mean.
There are records indicating how much a common labourer earned per day. (This is where approximation comes in: One labourer is more "common" than another.)
You are right that it is meaningless to say that the average person in country X earns $2.50/day (Or earns enough money to buy $2.50). It does mean something if you find out that the common staple food /person/day costs appr. $2.00 while the average daily income is $2.50
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It's important to note here that slodiers in ancient Rome rarely were paid in Dinars (if ever!), but rather in salt. (Hence the words "soldier" (sal dare) or salary). This salt they changed with other goods, even in Rome, and in provinces far away from Rome, Dinars weren't of any worth. Free farm workers in the province were paid with shares at the product, and craftsmens with goods which they then traded with other goods.
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Really? with salt? How much salt? So apart from all their weapons and gear, they were dragging bags of salt around? How much salt did an army then take along to pay for their soldiers during a campaign? How could you keep track of how much salt you had and someone hadn't taken a handful while you were asleep?ThomasGR wrote:It's important to note here that slodiers in ancient Rome rarely were paid in Dinars (if ever!), but rather in salt. (Hence the words "soldier" (sal dare) or salary). This salt they changed with other goods, even in Rome, and in provinces far away from Rome, Dinars weren't of any worth. Free farm workers in the province were paid with shares at the product, and craftsmens with goods which they then traded with other goods.
I'm truly amazed....
Last edited by Kasper on Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Me thinks an urban myth has been posted.Kasper wrote:Really? with salt? How much salt? So apart from all their weapons and gear, they were dragging bags of salt around? How much salt did an army then take along to pay for their soldiers during a campaign? How could you keep track of how much salt you had and someone hadn't taken a handful while you were asleep?ThomasGR wrote:It's important to note here that slodiers in ancient Rome rarely were paid in Dinars (if ever!), but rather in salt. (Hence the words "soldier" (sal dare) or salary). This salt they changed with other goods, even in Rome, and in provinces far away from Rome, Dinars weren't of any worth. Free farm workers in the province were paid with shares at the product, and craftsmens with goods which they then traded with other goods.
I'm truly amazed....
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It is an urban legend?
Well another legend says, soldiers most times were paid with portion of state land, if he had the luck to survive some ten or twenty years of military service.
Well I can tell you a story from my childhood. Often my mother gave me a dozen of eggs to go to the grocer to get some kilos of rice. So how much did rice cost? What I did never understand till this age is, what did the grocer do with the eggs? He must have gathered all the eggs of the village, refrigirators didn't exist, and often after some days the eggs went rotten.
Well another legend says, soldiers most times were paid with portion of state land, if he had the luck to survive some ten or twenty years of military service.
Well I can tell you a story from my childhood. Often my mother gave me a dozen of eggs to go to the grocer to get some kilos of rice. So how much did rice cost? What I did never understand till this age is, what did the grocer do with the eggs? He must have gathered all the eggs of the village, refrigirators didn't exist, and often after some days the eggs went rotten.
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"soldier" is not from sal but rather from "solidus", which implies pay by coin (at least at the time when they adopted the ancestor of the word "soldier"). "salary" is indeed from sal though.
Last edited by benissimus on Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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It does look like so many other historical myths: i.e.ThomasGR wrote:It is an urban legend?
* The exclamation, "bloody" means "by our lady".
* The two finger gesture dates back to Agincourt, when French soldiers threatened to cut those fingers off any captured English archers.
* The word f*** is the acronym fornication under the consent of the king.
...and so many more.
The common thread is the linking of something from the present to something from the past in a suspiciously entertaining way.
Land for service is not a myth, and it's nothing unusual.ThomasGR wrote:Well another legend says, soldiers most times were paid with portion of state land, if he had the luck to survive some ten or twenty years of military service.
Are you joking?ThomasGR wrote:Well I can tell you a story from my childhood. Often my mother gave me a dozen of eggs to go to the grocer to get some kilos of rice. So how much did rice cost? What I did never understand till this age is, what did the grocer do with the eggs? He must have gathered all the eggs of the village, refrigirators didn't exist, and often after some days the eggs went rotten.
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Perhaps he gave the eggs to the wholesaler he got his rice from, or the rice farmers if you grew up in a rice-growing area.
Parts of Diocletian's edict on price controls for various goods can be found here:
http://www.fh-augsburg.de/~harsch/Chron ... _ep_i.html
Parts of Diocletian's edict on price controls for various goods can be found here:
http://www.fh-augsburg.de/~harsch/Chron ... _ep_i.html