So...anyone going to see Troy?

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Borealis
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So...anyone going to see Troy?

Post by Borealis » Tue May 11, 2004 3:58 am

I'm going to view this with an open mind. I have no objections so far, because I haven't seen it. I also know that Hollywood isn't going to make a movie about the Trojan War without a Trojan Horse; I can live with that, even if it didn't happen at the same point of the war as the Iliad does.

So, pre-release thoughts, anyone? Comments? Questions? Horror stories?
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Post by chad » Tue May 11, 2004 5:27 am

i'm definitely seeing it i can't wait. it doesn't matter to me whether it captures every exact detail of the iliad and aeneid book 2, you go to the original books for that... i just hope they bring across the greatness of the people and the event... that's why gladiator is my fav rome movie: it brings across "romeness" to me... and things like the oratory before the colosseum battles, even though in english, i think are the best examples of roman oratorical skill i've seen in a movie, when you compare them against the rules and techniques laid down in quintilian's institutio oratoria and cicero's de oratore.

also have u guys seen fellini's satyricon? it's crazy... there are things in there which aren't in the satyricon (at least the version i read), but its bizarreness brings out petronius' ideas far better than any verbatim production of the satyricon could i think. it's full of people playing greek musical instruments using what sounds like ancient greek tunings: stuff like this brings out the force of the originals even if they don't faithfully follow them.

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Post by mingshey » Tue May 11, 2004 7:30 am

I've only seen the teaser. I think the cast for Achilleus is good. I once thought Brad Pitt wouldn't look so tough for a bullet proof Achilleus. But in the second thought, he had to hide amongst girls to avoid the recruit.
Though when I think about him attracted by weapons in Odysseus' trick, I cannot help reminding of Arnold Schwarzeneger smiling at a huge grenade launcher(in T2).

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Post by klewlis » Tue May 11, 2004 2:30 pm

Apparently Brad and Orlando did all their own fight scenes, which is very cool.

I'm looking forward to it. And there is definitely a horse... I saw it in one of the previews.

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Post by Barrius » Tue May 11, 2004 8:57 pm

I do want to see it - they only so called negative that I have heard is that the gods were omitted, which I fail to understand how the story can be told without them.

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Post by Amy » Wed May 12, 2004 2:49 am

I can't wait to see it!

I've read reviews from people who were at the screening, all: "it was not PORTRAYED historically CORRECTLY and i am DISSAPOINTED", so it's nice to hear that people are still excited about it.

achilles! achilles! achilles!!!!

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Post by annis » Wed May 12, 2004 3:11 am

Barrius wrote:I do want to see it - they only so called negative that I have heard is that the gods were omitted, which I fail to understand how the story can be told without them.
I also find this a bit mystifying.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

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Post by chad » Wed May 12, 2004 4:10 am

i heard this too, about the downplaying of the gods. it'll be interesting to see how agamemnon manages to keep his head in book 1: whether achilles--famous manic-depressive that he is--re-sheathes his sword on a sudden change of mood, or whether conciliating odysseus rushes forward. i guess we'll see

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Post by Barrius » Wed May 12, 2004 2:26 pm

annis wrote:I also find this a bit mystifying.
I guess this is Hollyweird's version for atheists - I cannot comprehend how the story can be told with the gods.

At least it will have a plot.

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Post by Barrius » Wed May 12, 2004 2:31 pm

From http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:_s ... gods&hl=en
Pitt also defended the decision to deviate from Homer and not include any gods in the film. Petersen said gods would not have played well with audiences today.
I guess people that believe Arnold/Rambo/Bruce/etc. can walk through a hailstorm of machine gun fire uninjured couldn't accept reality.
:wink:

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Post by Democritus » Wed May 12, 2004 4:05 pm

Barrius wrote:From http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:_s ... gods&hl=en
Pitt also defended the decision to deviate from Homer and not include any gods in the film. Petersen said gods would not have played well with audiences today.
I guess people that believe Arnold/Rambo/Bruce/etc. can walk through a hailstorm of machine gun fire uninjured couldn't accept reality.
:wink:

Accept reality, yes. The film would be much more realistic if it included Zeus and Athena as characters. :wink:

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Post by Barrius » Wed May 12, 2004 5:18 pm

Democritus wrote:Accept reality, yes. The film would be much more realistic if it included Zeus and Athena as characters. :wink:
Yes. Otherwise this would be like telling the story of Noah or Moses without mentioning God. It's not like Hollyweird never offended anyone, so I still cannot fathom the rationale behind the decision to omit Zeus, Athena, Aphrodite. Hera etc.

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Post by KohlyKohl » Wed May 12, 2004 6:55 pm

Personally I believe they wanted to make a movie simular to Gladiator. With its success and lack of gods there as well they probley decided you can't make an epic movie with fake gods that have powers and make it seem real? Whatever the case it'll apeal to the masses none the less and they will make their money which is what it all comes down to in the end.

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Post by Democritus » Wed May 12, 2004 7:11 pm

Barrius wrote:
Democritus wrote:Accept reality, yes. The film would be much more realistic if it included Zeus and Athena as characters. :wink:
Yes. Otherwise this would be like telling the story of Noah or Moses without mentioning God. It's not like Hollyweird never offended anyone, so I still cannot fathom the rationale behind the decision to omit Zeus, Athena, Aphrodite. Hera etc.
Oh, I agree with you, I think that the film would be better with the Gods in it. It just amuses me to see the "reality" meme pop up in connection with pagan Gods. It's a strange conundrum: Which is more "evangelically correct" nowadays -- including the pagan Gods, or leaving them out??

I don't know why the producers left the Gods out, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions about it, until I heard them explain their rationale themselves. I certainly don't agree that Hollywood avoids mentioning Gods because they are catering to atheists. The vast majority of moviegoers are Christians or adherents to other faiths, and the producers know this.

There is no shortage of Hollywood films with a religious point of view. Remember Raiders of the Lost Ark? Or Ghost? Or Bruce Almighty? Or The Passion of Christ? Sixth Sense? Or any recent film involving angels? Not to mention The Exorcist and the Omen series. Dogma and Stigmata may be silly, but how about The Third Miracle?

Perhaps the makers of Troy omitted mention of pagan Gods to avoid offending Christians. But I doubt this. Films that offend somebody might make more money because of the additional press coverage.

The most plausible explanation is that they wanted to reduce the number of significant characters, to make the story simpler. We might justifiably call this "dumbing down" the story.

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Post by Barrius » Wed May 12, 2004 7:46 pm

Democritus wrote:Oh, I agree with you, I think that the film would be better with the Gods in it. It just amuses me to see the "reality" meme pop up in connection with pagan Gods. It's a strange conundrum: Which is more "evangelically correct" nowadays -- including the pagan Gods, or leaving them out??
The reality is not whether the Hera, Zeus et al exist or not, the reality is the epics from the period include them. I agree that HW s not catering to atheists, but even if they didn't think they could find an actor/actress (or simply wanted to save a few million in a $200+ million epic), they could have the actors talk/hear the gods offscreen, as Charlton Heston did in The 10 Commandments.

I definitely want to find out the rationale behind the move. And maybe this is all just marketing hype.

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Post by Emma_85 » Thu May 13, 2004 8:38 pm

Of course I'm going to see it! :D All the Greek classes are going (with the school) and some Latin ones - I'll probably go and see it before anyway. Haven't read any of the posts here though... I will after I've seen the movie :wink: .
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Troy is going to be so very, very bad

Post by gsh » Thu May 13, 2004 9:56 pm

I read an advance review in the New York Times; you would not believe what happens to Agamemnon in this film.

"Troy" has nothing to do with the Illiad.

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Post by Stephen » Fri May 14, 2004 8:40 pm

I actually had a chance to visit Troy about 5 years ago, and it was not what I expected. Very small, actually: it's easy to imagine a chase around the city walls.

And, yes, they had a huge wooden horse outside the gift shop.

I expect that the movie will make this little dusty mound of a town outshine most modern cities. It will be entertaining.

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Re: So...anyone going to see Troy?

Post by Bert » Sat May 15, 2004 2:34 am

Borealis wrote:... I also know that Hollywood isn't going to make a movie about the Trojan War without a Trojan Horse; I can live with that, even if it didn't happen at the same point of the war as the Iliad does.

...
At what point did the Trojan Horse come into being?

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Post by JuliaP » Sat May 15, 2004 2:25 pm

Stephen wrote: And, yes, they had a huge wooden horse outside the gift shop.
haha!

"Beware of gifts bearing Greeks."

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