Products are legal?

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alex_o
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Products are legal?

Post by alex_o » Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:51 pm

People, who can help me to get to know, If the products of Spyarsenal.com are legal to use? I have visited their website and I am impressed! I want even to buy something ...

www.spyarsenal.com

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mrcolj
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Post by mrcolj » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:29 pm

Not only legal, but very common. A lot of employers and parents trace what their kids do. Give me 20 minutes on your computer and I could tell your wife every site you've ever been to (unless you really know what you're doing...) But unless you are the owner of the network you're sniffing, it's illegal and you could easily be traced and thrown in prison.

This is a lot of what spyware can do, and why everyone fears it.

When I have kids, I'll be all over their history folders, and edited movies, and the V-chip, and everything else... :)
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klewlis
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Post by klewlis » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:30 pm

Well, laws depend on where you live.

I just glanced at this briefly, but what I saw is perfectly legal in North America, provided that you are installing these things on your *own* computer and not somebody else's without their knowledge. I have also heard of employers using such things to monitor their employees, which also appears to be legal.

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Episcopus
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Post by Episcopus » Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:16 pm

That's a bit unfair...so even if I delete all the history and everything some one can know every site to which I have gone? What? :shock:
Damn Americans. That should be illegal.

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klewlis
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Post by klewlis » Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:11 pm

Episcopus wrote:That's a bit unfair...so even if I delete all the history and everything some one can know every site to which I have gone? What? :shock:
Damn Americans. That should be illegal.
lol.

do you think it's only americans who can do this? some of the world's best hackers and crackers come from europe, rushia, etc.

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Emma_85
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Post by Emma_85 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:14 pm

I suppose it's legal for employers to search the pcs because they are company property... I don't like the idea of people sniffing around in other people's files, eventhough I think the employers have the right to do so. And if parents feel they can't trust their kids and have to spy on them... well something is wrong in that family and I'm sure the pc is not the only thing the parents will be reading. I'm more scared of what could happen if someone illegally uses these devices on me.
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Post by tdominus » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:32 am

Episcopus wrote:That's a bit unfair...so even if I delete all the history and everything some one can know every site to which I have gone? What? :shock:
Damn Americans. That should be illegal.
There are (at least ) two ways this can be done, firstly by keeping a log over the network (eg from your isp) of what you've viewed, and secondly by the fact that internet explorer keeps a list of the sites you've viewed which doesn't get deleted when you clear the browser history.

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Post by tdominus » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:34 am

Many countries have rules that say certain data can't be monitored or stored without permission.

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Episcopus
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Post by Episcopus » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:45 pm

So does some one have a list of all the sites to which I have been?

*perterritus :shock:

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klewlis
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Post by klewlis » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:56 pm

Episcopus wrote:So does some one have a list of all the sites to which I have been?

*perterritus :shock:
You do. It's stored in your computer.

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mrcolj
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Post by mrcolj » Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:03 pm

Probably no one has a list of all the sites you've been to, and probably no one ever will, including you. But if you work at a place with need for high security, or a huge corporation (including a school or library), or if you live in dorms at some school; there are decent odds someone's watching you. Just for liability's law, most larger businesses have to keep track of who's on a porn site, and when, and send you to counseling, etc. if your actions are outside the mores.

Your server has a record of everyplace you've ever been... And I can easily go back on my own site and see every IP address that has ever accessed my site. (The actual server has it back for years.) If it's a static IP, like businesses have, that traces it exactly to you, but doesn't give me your name. If it's a dynamic IP, it's still traceable, but would take a subpoena.

So my someone sends anonymous threatening emails to my sister. For as much as he is a computer engineer, it still took us all of five minutes to track it to him in a legally documentable way. The cops won't do anything about it, though; but the half-dozen emails over the years are on record for the judge... ;)
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Post by mrcolj » Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:05 pm

I always strangely feel more safe that all our locks and safeguards don't work, perhaps because it means that I'm not more insecure than anyone else. The first time I took a coathanger and tried to get into someone's car who had locked her keys in her car, it took me, with no knowledge of cars, having never seen a slim-jim used, and with no criminal history, all of 30 seconds to get into her car. Again, this has always made me feel more safe, not less...
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Post by Raya » Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:32 am

mrcolj wrote:this has always made me feel more safe, not less...
I'd agree: what may appear to be the weakness of a system can turn out to be a useful feature in the right circumstances!

We used to have a low front wall to our property, and if I went out and forgot my gate key, I would simply have to climb over that wall (and then have someone inside the house let me indoors). I suppose it would also have been a useful feature if ever there were an emergency where one had to get out quickly, having no time to fiddle with the gate lock.
Now there's a sort of railing on that wall that makes it impossible to climb over. So sure, it seems to have eliminated the occasional thieves who steal fruit from the garden, but somehow I preferred the wall in its climbable state...
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Post by Clark3934 » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:20 am

mrcolj wrote:Not only legal, but very common. A lot of employers and parents trace what their kids do. Give me 20 minutes on your computer and I could tell your wife every site you've ever been to (unless you really know what you're doing...) But unless you are the owner of the network you're sniffing, it's illegal and you could easily be traced and thrown in prison.

This is a lot of what spyware can do, and why everyone fears it.

When I have kids, I'll be all over their history folders, and edited movies, and the V-chip, and everything else... :)
Just get Windows Washer 5.0 and Privacy Eraser Pro and set them to above the NSA standards. Then everything is gone. It is beyond recovery. :P

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Post by Raya » Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:44 am

Clark3934 wrote:Then everything is gone. It is beyond recovery. :P
What is gone?
Are you saying that the programs you've mentioned could counter the effects of these spying tools?
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mrcolj
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Post by mrcolj » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:00 pm

First, since you said "spy" let's make sure everyone knows we're not talking about "spyware" in the sense of a website putting stuff on your computer which lets them know which ads you've seen. We're talking about legitimate monitoring software put on their by parents or bosses.

Now, the anti-monitoring software would erase your history unless the original monitoring software is any good, and blocks the anti-monitoring software from doing so. And if the monitoring software is any good, it will not only show that it blocked the program, but what measures you took to try to circumvent the system. This is called "hacking" in many companies and grounds for dismissal. But it's still worth a shot. Unless your parents/boss knows what they're doing, this software won't be on your machine in the first place, but if it is, you can probably get around it.

I worked at a school where I installed software on there to keep the machine from being changed too badly, files erased, desktop changed, etc. and when I messed up, there was no way to fix it except reformatting the hard drive, because the safeguards were low-level, as in BIOS.
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mrcolj
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Post by mrcolj » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:38 pm

I found a good link that says the 30-day demo of Evidence Eliminator is the best site for cleaning your HD.
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Post by Episcopus » Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:47 pm

It's not that I am some criminal and need to be protected, it's just that I don't like the idea of police and governments being able to look at everything on my computer. It's about security, and this is quite disturbing.

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Post by Mongoose42 » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:10 pm

When computer technologies reached the internet and it became more than a project for social rejects in laboratories, most people that purchase computers don't realise the changes in the new world of data. Unlike nature where nothing forms a true straight line and no simple code can be editted to cause change, computers and digital code is completly artificial and can therefore be changed. A lot of ignorant people do not realizes that any software security can be defeated by a sufficiantly developed software. With the proper link any computer can be controlled with a different computer. By creating alternative lives on the internet many people have put themselves in a world that is more protected by an illusion than any real security. :wink:

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Emma_85
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Post by Emma_85 » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:18 pm

Urgh... I hate the idea of the government being able to spy on my more that I hate the idea of criminals spying on my actually. Strange maybe but true.
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Post by Kalailan » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:24 pm

Emma_85 wrote:Urgh... I hate the idea of the government being able to spy on my more that I hate the idea of criminals spying on my actually. Strange maybe but true.
But why? why should you care if some agent somewhere knows which sites you go to? it's not like they would do it for their own pleasure. why should i care if someone who i never met and will never meet, knows things about, when that someone will not release that data anyway?
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Post by Emma_85 » Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:30 pm

The reason I don't like the idea I guess is that I think they should know better... I don't think the agents will hurt me more than any criminals, but it's just like they should actually by trying to stop people looking into people's private files, it should be their goal to stop that. Not a good analogy, but it's sort of like trying to stop people stealing, and so the agents go about and secretly search people's homes, to see if there are some stolen objects in their... they are breaking into people's homes, when what they want to stop people braking in... it just feels wrong.
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