"ut non deteriores dicam", Aug. de civitate dei, IX, iii

[hlawson38]

The phrase in question appears in one of Augustine's long sentences.

Context: In ancient times, many believed it a fact that spirits existed, whom humans might ask for intercession with yet more powerful divinities. Augustine declares that such spirits are evil, and that venerating them interferes with human approach to the true God. I'm having a hard time with the phrase "ut non deteriores dicam", in the passage enclosed in parentheses.

ut ne hominibus quidem sapientibus comparandi sint, qui huius modi perturbationibus animorum, a quibus humana non est inmunis infirmitas, etiam cum eas huius uitae condicione patiuntur, mente inperturbata resistunt, non eis cedentes ad aliquid adprobandum uel perpetrandum, quod exorbitet ab itinere sapientiae et lege iustitiae; sed stultis mortalibus et iniustis non corporibus, sed moribus similes (ut non dicam deteriores, eo quo uetustiores et debita poena insanabiles) ipsius quoque mentis, ut iste appellauit, salo fluctuant, nec in ueritate atque uirtute, qua turbulentis et prauis affectionibus repugnatur, ex ulla animi parte consistunt.

The LCL translation of the phrase reads "I might well have said they are worse". The parenthesis makes sense that way. Perhaps this is an idiom that I don't know and can't find a reference for.

Can somebody comment on "ut non deteriores dicam"?

[mwh]

It picks up stultis et iniustis: “(I say stulti and iniusti) in such a way that I don’t say deteriores” etc. It’s a result clause, but it’s not that different from a purpose clause with ne. It's rhetorical. Pragmatically he’s suggesting that they’re even worse than merely stulti et iniusti, since the wickedness is so ingrained in them. Compare use of English “not to say ..." (Latin ne dicam ..., quite common); the stronger term follows.

[hlawson38]

It picks up stultis et iniustis: “(I say stulti and iniusti) in such a way that I don’t say deteriores” etc. It’s a result clause, but it’s not that different from a purpose clause with ne. It's rhetorical. Pragmatically he’s suggesting that they’re even worse than merely stulti et iniusti, since the wickedness is so ingrained in them. Compare use of English “not to say ..." (Latin ne dicam ..., quite common); the stronger term follows.

Many thanks mwh. Your observations helped me with "ut non dicam" and "ne decam".