subjunctive clauses

[spqr]

A pronoun(qui) can be used to introduce a purpose clause instead of ut, Does this apply to other clause types which use the subjunctive?( result clauses for example). I am also assuming that the pronoun must match the gender and number according to the context similar to a relative pronoun.

[Barry Hofstetter]

1) Well, there are relative clauses of characteristic, but not result or circumstantial clauses.
2) Yes, it's still the relative pronoun, and must take the number and gender of it's antecedent.

[mwh]

I think we need to keep our grammatical terms straight. A clause introduced by a relative pronoun (qui etc.) is a relative clause, not a purpose clause. Relative clauses with subjunctive may (or may not) express purpose, but that does not make them purpose clauses. We could call them relative clauses of purpose if we wanted, just as Barry and others speak of relative clauses of characteristic, but these are merely modern categories of convenience, with no syntactical differentiation. They're based on our interpretation of the Latin, not on the Latin itself.

[Barry Hofstetter]

Surely. Most textbooks and grammars call them relative clauses of purpose and relative clauses of characteristic. I'm not so sure I would call them a matter of interpretation so much as a matter of observation, describing how the syntax works in such usages.

[mwh]

Barry, I’m afraid you miss the point. The syntax “works” in exactly the same way in either case. Whatever textbooks may say, classification as relative clause “of purpose” or whatever is superimposed by the reader. The distinctions are made by us, not by the Latin. They’re extrinsic, not intrinsic. There’s grammar (relative clauses, purpose clauses, etc, etc.), and there’s interpretation (contextually determined), and traditional grammars confuse the two.

[Barry Hofstetter]

Michael, somehow there is a miscommunication. I thought I was agreeing with you.

[Barry Hofstetter]

Michael, I almost laughed out loud reviewing some commentary notes for a class today reading the Aeneid 1:50-70, on 61-62, qui...sciret. One (Kitteredge & Jenkins) calls it a relative clause of purpose, and another (Bennet) a clause of characteristic. A matter of interpretation indeed!

[mwh]

Superimposition, how very apt. But what is this obsession with labels? sciret is a perfectly ordinary use of imperfect subjunctive (“who would know …”).