Present Participles

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Kachikawawa
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Present Participles

Post by Kachikawawa » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:15 pm

Hello!!
I'm having problems with some participles and its translation.
This is from the Lingua Latina per se Illustrata, pars I:
" 'Mārce! Māne est!' Eō modō excitātur Mārcus, et oculōs aperiēns servum apud lectum stantem videt."
" 'Marcus! It's mornig already!' Marcus was woken up in that way, and he, who is opening his eyes, sees the slave which is standing by the bed."

Timothée
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Re: Present Participles

Post by Timothée » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:36 pm

Kachikawawa wrote:" 'Mārce! Māne est!' Eō modō excitātur Mārcus, et oculōs aperiēns servum apud lectum stantem videt."
" 'Marcus! It's morning already!' Marcus was woken up in that way, and he, who is opening his eyes, sees the slave which is standing by the bed."
Note the tense of excitatur. In addition, it can mean either ‘X wakes [up]’ or ‘Y wakes X [up]’, according to the context.

Aperiens is participium coniunctum, and it translates ‘and opening his eyes’.

Servum apud lectum stantem videt translates ‘he sees the slave standing beside the bed’.

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Present Participles

Post by Barry Hofstetter » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:26 pm

I will add that translating the participle literally, while "safe" and often rendering an understandable English sense communicating the Latin, is not always the best English rendering in terms of style. For such exercises the literal is usually quite acceptable.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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mwh
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Re: Present Participles

Post by mwh » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:22 am

To translate the present participles as present participles (as Timothée did) is not just “safe” and "quite acceptable" but far and away the best if not the only way to translate them.
Kachikawawa, you translated them as if they were relative clauses (qui quae quod etc.), which they're not. See the difference?

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Present Participles

Post by Barry Hofstetter » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:34 pm

mwh wrote:To translate the present participles as present participles (as Timothée did) is not just “safe” and "quite acceptable" but far and away the best if not the only way to translate them.
Kachikawawa, you translated them as if they were relative clauses (qui quae quod etc.), which they're not. See the difference?
With all due respect, mwh, I have never heard anyone else with your purported level of competence in the languages make such a claim. While Latin does not have same level of participial use as Greek, like Greek, it often uses participles where English style prefers the use of a subordinate clause. I would say that there is normally sufficient overlap in the English use of present participles and the Latin that the literal rendering usually makes sense, and sometimes it's the best rendering even in a "polished" English translation. But the literal translations we tend to require of students ("translationese," fine otherwise for didactic purposes) would give most English teachers all sorts of fits and starts.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
The Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

mwh
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Re: Present Participles

Post by mwh » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:47 pm

Barry, I’m afraid you misunderstood me. I was referring to the participles in the sentence in question (I said “the present participles,” not “present participles” in general). I was aiming to straighten out the OP’s problem with that, without unnecessarily widening the discussion.

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Present Participles

Post by Barry Hofstetter » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:10 pm

mwh wrote:Barry, I’m afraid you misunderstood me. I was referring to the participles in the sentence in question (I said “the present participles,” not “present participles” in general). I was aiming to straighten out the OP’s problem with that, without unnecessarily widening the discussion.
Understood! And I was drawing a general observation that I hoped would be helpful for the student's ongoing work.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
The Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

mwh
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Re: Present Participles

Post by mwh » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:33 pm

As someone once said, ἀρκετὸν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἡ κακία αὐτῆς. Wait till he reaches perfect passive participles!

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Present Participles

Post by Barry Hofstetter » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:57 pm

mwh wrote:As someone once said, ἀρκετὸν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἡ κακία αὐτῆς. Wait till he reaches perfect passive participles!
:) :) :) :) :) :D
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
The Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
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Kachikawawa
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Re: Present Participles

Post by Kachikawawa » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:00 am

Thanks everybody, it's all clear now!!

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