Eius et Suum (Lingue Latina, Capitulum Quartum)

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Toby
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Eius et Suum (Lingue Latina, Capitulum Quartum)

Post by Toby » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:00 pm

Salvete!

I'm working my way through Lingua Latina and mostly think I'm doing okay on the exercises. However, in the following exercises, I'm not sure of myself at all. The best I can tell, "eius" is never declined, but "suum" is.

The following is the transcription of my answers to the exercises (chapter four, exercise five). Could someone let me know if I'm doing this right before I get the wrong habits?
  • Ube est pecunia Iulii? Pecunia suum in sacculo est.
    Iulius pecuniam suam in mensa ponit.
    Aemilia pecuniam eius videt.
    Adestne Servus Iulii? Sevus suum adest.
    Iulius servum suum videt.
    Davus venit et dominum suum salutat.
    Davus sacculum suum in mensa ponit.
    In sacculo suo penunia non est: sacculus suum vacuus est.
    Davus nummal pecuniam in sacculo suo habet.
    Iulius unim nummum in sacculo eius ponit.
    Iulius: "Sume sacculum tuum!" Davus sacculum suum sumit.
    Medus non suum sed Iulii in sacculo suo habet.
And, lastly, I want to say I know that I'm pretty new here. If there's an answer key to the book that I'm not aware of, or if this is the wrong place to post this kind of question, I wouldn't not adverse to being steered straight.

Valete!
-Toby

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bedwere
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Re: Eius et Suum (Lingue Latina, Capitulum Quartum)

Post by bedwere » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:26 pm

Toby wrote:Salvete!

I'm working my way through Lingua Latina and mostly think I'm doing okay on the exercises. However, in the following exercises, I'm not sure of myself at all. The best I can tell, "eius" is never declined, but "suum" is.

The following is the transcription of my answers to the exercises (chapter four, exercise five). Could someone let me know if I'm doing this right before I get the wrong habits?
  • Ube est pecunia Iulii? Pecunia suum in sacculo est.
    Iulius pecuniam suam in mensa ponit.
    Aemilia pecuniam eius videt.
    Adestne Servus Iulii? Sevus suum adest.
    Iulius servum suum videt.
    Davus venit et dominum suum salutat.
    Davus sacculum suum in mensa ponit.
    In sacculo suo penunia non est: sacculus suum vacuus est.
    Davus nummal pecuniam in sacculo suo habet.
    Iulius unim nummum in sacculo eius ponit.
    Iulius: "Sume sacculum tuum!" Davus sacculum suum sumit.
    Medus non suum sed Iulii in sacculo suo habet.
And, lastly, I want to say I know that I'm pretty new here. If there's an answer key to the book that I'm not aware of, or if this is the wrong place to post this kind of question, I wouldn't not adverse to being steered straight.

Valete!
-Toby
Check again the words in bold.
Remember that suus-a-um is an adjective and must agree with the noun in number, gender, and case.
Is some word missing in the last phrase?

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Re: Eius et Suum (Lingue Latina, Capitulum Quartum)

Post by swtwentyman » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:31 pm

"Eius" is already declined -- it's the genitive singular of the third-person pronoun "is/ea/id". "Suus -a -um" is an adjective meaning "one's own".

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Re: Eius et Suum (Lingue Latina, Capitulum Quartum)

Post by Interaxus » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:20 am

Hi Toby,

I’ve capitalized SUBJECTS and VERBS in your sentences to make things clearer.

Remember that suus-a-um REFERS to the SUBJECT of the sentence but DESCRIBES not the subject but SOMETHING BELONGING TO THE SUBJECT.

And remember that suus-a-um is an adjective (so its ending must agree with that of a noun/pronoun) while eius is a pronoun (= his/her/its) and doesn’t change.
Ubi est pecunia Iulii? PECUNIA suum in sacculo EST.
(Incorrect on 2 counts: First, the adjective ‘suUM’ doesn’t agree with anything else in your sentence. Second, changing ‘suum’ to ‘sua’ wouldn’t help because PECUNIA is the subject; it’s not the money’s money we’re talking about. It’s Julius’s. HIS money. That is, ‘EIUS pecunia’ (since he’s not even in the sentence he can’t be its grammatical subject).
IULIUS pecuniam suam in mensa PONIT.
(Correct: ‘suam’refers to subject-of-sentence Iulius and agrees with pecuniAM, something belonging to him)
AEMILIA pecuniam eius VIDET.
(Correct: it’s his (Julius’s) money that Aemilia sees. IF it were her own money, it would be suam, referring to her (the subject) and agreeing with pecuniAM, the thing ‘owned’)
Adestne Servus Iulii? SERVUS suum ADEST.

(This is a no-no. Apart from the fact that once again ‘suum’ doesn’t agree with anything else in your sentence, changing ‘suum’ to ‘suus’ wouldn’t help either since suus-a-um must refer to something ‘belonging to’ the subject. What would that be? Julius (outside the sentence) is the ‘owner’ and ‘his’ must refer to him. So we need ‘eius’.
IULIUS servum suum VIDET.
(Correct)
DAVUS venit et dominum suum SALUTAT.
(Correct)
DAVUS sacculum suum in mensa PONIT.
(Correct)
In sacculo suo PECUNIA non EST:

(Incorrect: Subject is pecunia. Technically could be correct (after all ‘Cleopatra est in foro suo’ - ‘Cleo is in her forum’ would be correct) but although ‘The money’s in its bag’ might sound OK in English the ‘owner’ in this context is obviously some person or other: The money’s not in HIS/HER bag. Eius.)
SACCULUS suum vacuus EST.
(Incorrect: Wrong for 2 reasons as above. Got it?)
DAVUS nummal (=nullam?) pecuniam in sacculo suo HABET.
(Correct apart from typo)
IULIUS unim (=unum) nummum in sacculo eius PONIT.
(Correct if the bag is Davus’s, incorrect if the bag is Julius’s.)
Iulius: "Sume sacculum tuum!" DAVUS sacculum suum SUMIT.
(Correct)
MEDUS non suum sed Iulii in sacculo suo HABET
(Something missing here ...)

By the way, note for future reference that in ‘Iulius nummum IN sacculO PONIT’ it’s IN sacculO (ablative) and not IN sacculUM (accusative) which we as English speakers might expect because ‘put’ usually implies motion in our minds and Latin grammar says IN is normally followed by the accusative when motion is implied. The verb ‘ponere’ (to put) is a bit special in this respect. Likewise, ‘Davus sacculum suum IN mensA (ablative) PONIT (not ‘IN mensAM (accusativ) PONIT’ even though for us ‘put on/onto the table’ implies motion.

Vale!
Int

Toby
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Re: Eius et Suum (Lingue Latina, Capitulum Quartum)

Post by Toby » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:23 pm

Hmm. I'm sorry, I thought I had posted my eternal gratitude on this thread. I guess that was good intentions, but not much more.

The explanation of 'needs to match the subject' made things clearer, so did the realization that Eius is already declined. With 'suum', I'd been thinking that it meant the equivalent to 'his own' so that 'His own money is in the bag' would make sense, but it's clearer now.

I really appreciate the help!

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Re: Eius et Suum (Lingue Latina, Capitulum Quartum)

Post by Interaxus » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:43 pm

Toby,

Glad it helped.

Vale!
Int

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Re: Eius et Suum (Lingue Latina, Capitulum Quartum)

Post by hlawson38 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:18 pm

Interaxus wrote:Toby,

Glad it helped.

Vale!
Int
Thanks to Interaxus for distinguishing eius, from suus, -a, um , with respect to their usage. I'm glad I eavesdropped in. And thanks to Toby for asking the question that brought forth Interaxus's commentary.

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Re: Eius et Suum (Lingue Latina, Capitulum Quartum)

Post by Jandar » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:49 pm

Toby wrote:If there's an answer key to the book that I'm not aware of...
The answer key for Familia Romana and Roma Aeterna (both for the Pensa and the Excercitia) can be found in the Teacher's Materials.

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