Ben-Hur Translation Page 12: Father and Son

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bedwere
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Ben-Hur Translation Page 12: Father and Son

Post by bedwere » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:06 am

Thank you for your corrections!

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All the pages translated so far

But Ben-Hur fails to see the approaching peril. Another galley bent on overtaking a pirate ship will not spare the lives of those struggling in the sea.

Benhur autem adveniens periculum non videt. Alia enim triremis, quæ festinat ad navim latronum comprehendendam, nitentibus in mari non parcet.

Ὁ δὲ Βενὼρ οὐκ ὁρᾷ τὸν ἐπιόντα κίνδυνον. Ἄλλη γὰρ τριήρης ἐπειγομένη πλοῖόν τι λῃστικὸν καταλαβεῖν οὐ φείσεται τῶν ἐν τῇ θαλάσσῃ πειρωμένων.

It’s Quintus Arrius admiral of the fleet! Save him!

Ecce Quintum Arrium, præfectum classis! Salvate eum!

Ἰδοὺ ὁ Κοΐντος Ἄρριος, ὁ ναύαρχος τοῦ ναυτικοῦ. Σώσατε αὐτόν.

The galley misses them by inches as it rushes on in pursuit of the fleeing pirates. In the hour of victory the admiral realizes that he owes his life to Ben-Hur’s strength and courage.

Triremis quidem eos modo non deicit, dum persequitur latrones fugientes. Hora autem victoriæ præfectus videt se strenuo ac forti Benhuri vitam debere.

Ἡ μὲν τριήρης αὐτοὺς ὅσον οὐ καταβάλλει, διώκουσα τοὺς λῃστὰς φεύγοντας. Tῇ δὲ ὥρᾳ τῆς νίκης, ὁ ναύαρχος ὁρᾷ τῷ ἰσχυρῷ τε καὶ ἀνδρείῳ Βενὼρ τὴν ζωὴν ὀφείλων.

Here comes a small boat to rescue us. You have won a gallant victory and Rome will bestow her greatest honors on you.

En scapha venit ad succurrendum nobis. Tu claram victoriam reportasti, Roma certe te maximo honore ornabit.

Ἰδού, σκαφίδιον ἔρχεται βοήθησον ἡμῖν. Σύγε μὲν λαμπρὰν νίκην νενίκηκας, ἡ δὲ Ῥώμη πάσας τιμὰς τιμήσει σε.

Except for you, I would not now be alive. I have no son of my own and henceforth you shall bear my name.

Nisi adfuisses, nunc non viverem. Cum non habeam filium meum, dehinc tu feres nomen meum.

Εἰ μὴ παρεγένου, οὐκ ἂν νῦν ἐβίουν. Ἐπειδὴ οὐκ ἔχω υἱὸν ἐμόν, σύγε τοὐντεῦθεν οἴσῃ τοὔνομά μου.

No. You cannot make a Roman of me! I am a Jew and my loyalty must remain with Israel and the God of Moses.

Minime. Non me potes Romanum facere! Judæus sum, debeo ergo meo Moysique Deo confidere et Israëli semper fides erit.

Οὐχί. Οὐ γὰρ δύνασαι Ῥωμαῖον ἐμὲ ποιῆσαι. Ἰουδαῖος γάρ εἰμι, ὀφείλω οὖν τῷ Θεῷ μού τε καὶ Μωϋσέως πιστεύειν καὶ τῷ Ἰσραὴλ ἀεὶ ἡ πίστις ἔσται.

You will share my position and my fortune, and from now on, no one will dare harm you.

Tu particeps meae auctoritatis fortunaeque eris. Dehinc nemo tibi nocere audebit.

Σὺ μεθέξεις τοῦ ἀξιώματός μού τε καὶ τῆς οὐσίας. Tοὐντεῦθεν δ’οὐδεὶς βλάψαι σε τολμήσει.

Ben-Hur realizes that this generous offer will bring him the means to wreak vengeance on Messala and the Roman oppressors of his people.

Benhur novit verbum hoc generosum comparaturum facultatem ulciscendi et Messalam et Romanos qui opprimebant populum suum.

Ὁ Βενὼρ οἶδε τοῦτον τὸν γενναῖον λόγον παρασκευάσοντα ἐξουσίαν τιμωρεῖσθαι καὶ Μεσσάλαν καὶ τοὺς Ῥωμαίους, τοὺς κατατρίβοντας τὸν λαὸν αὐτοῦ.

I will do as he asks and become his adopted son, but in my heart I will remain faithful to the one and true God and seek freedom for my country.

Faciam ut rogat et fiam adoptivus filius ejus, in meo corde fidelis uni veroque Deo permanens quæram libertatem pro patria.

Δράσω μὲν ὡς αἰτεῖ καὶ γενήσομαι ὁ ποιητὸς υἱὸς αὐτοῦ, ἐν δὲ τῇ καρδίᾳ μου πιστὸς τῷ ἑνί τε καὶ ἀληθινῷ Θεῷ διαμένων ζητήσω τὴν ἐλευθερίαν ὑπὲρ τῆς πατρίδος.

And so the wish of Quintus Arrius was fulfilled on his victorious return to the Roman naval base.

Cursum ut ad portum Romanorum victor tenebat, ita Quintus Arrius id, quod optaverat, adeptus est.

Ἐπανερχόμενος οὖν νενικηκὼς εἰς τὸν τῶν Ῥωμαίων λιμένα, ὁ Κοΐντος Ἄρριος ἔτυχεν ὧν ἐπετεθυμήκει.

For saving my life I have made this brave fellow my son and heir. From now on he shall be known only by my name.

Cum servavisset vitam meam, hunc fortem juvenem filium ac heredem feci. Dehinc ergo solo nomine meo appellabitur.

Ἐπειδὴ ἔσωσε τὸν βίον μου, τόνδε τὸν ἀνδρεῖον νεανίαν υἱόν τε καὶ κληρονόμον πεποίηκα. Tοὐντεῦθεν ἄρα μόνον τοὔνομά μου κληθήσεται.

We shall afford the same honor and respect as we give you, Noble Arrius!

Illi dabimus eumdem honorem, o generose Arrie, quem tibi damus.

Ἐκείνῳ δώσομεν τὴν αὐτὴν τιμήν, ὦ γενναῖε Ἄρριε, οἵαν δίδομεν σοί .

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Re: Ben-Hur Translation Page 12: Father and Son

Post by LateStarter » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:59 am

Some ideas.

Latin seems to like the dative present with immineo. 'Benhur periculum sibi imminens...' I tried below not to harp on word order too much, but here "nitentibus in mari non parcet" (rather than non parcet iis nitentibus) completes the subtler shade of the gnomic present, and allows you to dispense with the somewhat awkward 'iis'. This is closer to the English "won't spare (can't be expected to spare) anyone." Non parcet iis nitentibus is more like "does not spare these particular swimmers in the sea."

If Quintis Arrius is previously known to Benhur, perhaps Ecce (or En) praefectum Quintum Arrium, rather than (hand on shoulder for introductions) 'Hic est.'

For the tricky 'misses by inches' I would start afresh with something like 'Triremis suam navem paene attingens...' I believe there is a specific verb for 'ram with a prow' but I am not seeing it in the basic English-Latin dictionaries. Instead of 'In autem hora' I would use the simple ablative of time, e.g. 'Hora ipsa victoriae.' Instead of novit translating the stalwart English 'realizes' how about the simple 'videt' for 'sees, it is immediately clear to.'

Ecce scapham, the regular word for a dinghy, liferaft-y type thing. In 'tu quidem claram' quidem is really limiting, meaning either 'at least,' 'at any rate,' or 'you alone.' How about valde or vere. Instead of the cognate accusative victoriam, which I don't believe I've seen with the verb, how about 'clara (ablative) victoria (vere) potitus es.' Again, for 'autem' how about 'certe,' or 'certum est Romam te...ornaturam.'

Non me potes Romanum facere is much stronger than "Non enim potes." Likewise just "Iudaeus sum. Debeo meo Moysique deo confidere et Israeli semper fides erit (not distinguishing 'to Israel' from 'Israel's) . That whiff of the Marines may be fitting but was unintentional.

For 'Share my' how about the more weighty "Tu particeps meae fortunae auctoritatisque eris." Latin likes the emphatic juxtaposition of subject/object, esp. in a case like "No one will harm you," so "Nemo tibi nocere audebit."

The translation of "Ben-Hur realizes..." is pretty good, but opprimebant will give the sense of duration and continuity that "opprimunt" fails to give.

Just "Faciam ut rogat," again. "Fiam filius eius adoptivus, in meo corde..." provides the chiastic order and concomitant antithesis (with or without sed) while 'in autem' just sounds expletive and needlessly wordy.

It does seem difficult to preserve the English emphasis of the fairy-tale 'And so the hope.' Perhaps 'Cursum ut ad portum Romanum tenebat, ita Quintus Arrius id, quod optaverat, adeptus est.' Ut...ita has the meaning 'just as...so," with its causal implication.

Again, Hunc fortem iuvenem filium ac heredem feci ... gives 'filium' its emphatic place and dissolves the needless preservation of the English syntactical segregation of the predicate.

In the last sentence you give well, I think, the solemn sense of the words by jettisoning the above 'quidems' and 'autems.' Ei and tibi more regularly precede the verb but seem to work alright where they are here. Such are my thoughts.

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Re: Ben-Hur Translation Page 12: Father and Son

Post by bedwere » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:10 pm

Many thanks, Latestarter!

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Re: Ben-Hur Translation Page 12: Father and Son

Post by mwh » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:26 am

Good comments by LateStarter, so I’ll skip the Latin.

πρὸς τὴν τῷ λῃστῶν ναῦν τείνουσα
επειγομενη πλοιον τι ληστικον καταλαβειν

μικρὸν παρέρχεται
μογις π. or better οσον ου καταβαλλει

τοὺς φεύγοντας λῃστάς
τους λ. φ.

Enough.

This really belongs on the Composition board don’t you think? At any rate not the Latin one!

If I may venture a general comment, some of your expressions are more English than Greek. E.g.
Ἐν δὲ τῇ ὥρᾳ τῆς νίκης
τὴν ζωὴν ὀφείλων
Ἐπειδὴ οὐκ ἔχω υἱὸν ἐμόν
οἴσῃ τοὔνομά μου
δεῖ ἄρα τὴν πίστιν μου μένειν μετὰ τοῦ Ἰσραήλ
Κοινωνήσεις τῆς τάξεώς μού τε καὶ τῆς οὐσίας
τὴν ἐλευθερίαν ὑπὲρ τῆς πατρίδος
Ἐπειδὴ ἔσωσε τὸν βίον μου.
Not that all of these are absolutely wrong. And there’s no lack of good things here.

Last sentence better … εκεινω δωσομεν ω γενν. Αρ. οιαν διδομεν σοί (w/ accent)?

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Re: Ben-Hur Translation Page 12: Father and Son

Post by bedwere » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:02 am

Thank you for your help, Michael. I moved the topics to the Composition Board.

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Re: Ben-Hur Translation Page 12: Father and Son

Post by bedwere » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:21 pm

Latine
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Ἑλληνιστί
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