Problem With a Sentence in Livy

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JRoberts
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Problem With a Sentence in Livy

Post by JRoberts » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:56 pm

I'm translating Book XXXIX, Ch. VII of Livy. The first sentence is a catalog of spoils...however, after translating, I have one word with no place to go! The Latin is:

In triumpho tulit Cn. Manlius coronas aureas ducenta duodecim, argenti pondo ducenta uiginti milia, auri pondo duo milia centum tria, tetrachmum Atticum centum uiginti septem milia, cistophori ducenta quinquaginta, Philippeorum aureorum nummorum sedecim milia trecentos uiginti;

I have translated:

In his triumph, Cn. Manlius bore 200 golden crowns [12?], 220,000 pounds of silver, 2,103 pounds of gold, 127,000 Attic tetrachmas, 250 cistophori, 16,320 of Philip's golden coins;

I do not think that the 12 goes with 200, to become 212. My theory is that you must supply an additional pondo. Would someone mind helping me?
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Magistra
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Post by Magistra » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:20 am

In his triumph, Cn. Manlius bore 200 golden crowns [12?]

212

Looks fine to me. I checked it at thelatinlibrary.com and found that "pondo" was added to the manuscript there. I guess you're on the right track.

Magistra

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Post by Ulpianus » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:00 pm

I agree with magistra. Why do you think that 200 does not go with 12?

JRoberts
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Post by JRoberts » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:07 pm

I read an English translation, and it said:

"200 golden crowns, each weighing 12 pounds".

But I do not see at all how they got this.
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cdm2003
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Re: Problem With a Sentence in Livy

Post by cdm2003 » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:13 pm

JRoberts wrote:I'm translating Book XXXIX, Ch. VII of Livy. The first sentence is a catalog of spoils...however, after translating, I have one word with no place to go! The Latin is:

In triumpho tulit Cn. Manlius coronas aureas ducenta duodecim, argenti pondo ducenta uiginti milia, auri pondo duo milia centum tria, tetrachmum Atticum centum uiginti septem milia, cistophori ducenta quinquaginta, Philippeorum aureorum nummorum sedecim milia trecentos uiginti;

I have translated:

In his triumph, Cn. Manlius bore 200 golden crowns [12?], 220,000 pounds of silver, 2,103 pounds of gold, 127,000 Attic tetrachmas, 250 cistophori, 16,320 of Philip's golden coins;

I do not think that the 12 goes with 200, to become 212. My theory is that you must supply an additional pondo. Would someone mind helping me?
As the "aureus" was a Roman denomination like a denarius (excepting that the aureus was a denomination that survives the Republican era and all Imperial financial reforms thereafter). The aureus was pure gold and the sense I get is 212 aurei...even if the nummi are of Macedonian or Greek origin. If your text leaves out a "pondo" then the translation would be different. If it were 212 gold crowns, aureus would be in the genitive (cf. the last part).

Chris

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Post by modus.irrealis » Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:53 am

A question from a Latin beginner: why does ducenta modify coronas when the genders don't match? It seems to me ducenta is neuter but coronas feminine. Is this some strange construction with numerals?

Thymios

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Post by Magistra » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:48 pm

Thymios:
It seems to me ducenta is neuter but coronas feminine.
True. "Ducenta" would be modifying "pondo" an indeclinable neuter noun which is missing from the text here but has been supplied at thelatinlibrary.com. The ellipsis seems quite possible here since "pondo" is also missing (but implied) in the last three phrases.

chris:
If it were 212 gold crowns, aureus would be in the genitive (cf. the last part).
"Coronarum aurearum"? That sounds right, but since the gold crowns are accusative, I'm thinking that they are used as a simple direct object. That leaves us with "ducenta duodecim [pondo]", also accusative? Could the weight be an appositive? "... gold crowns, 212 pounds, ..."

Magistra

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