Just a few M&F kwesch'nz

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Deudeditus
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Just a few M&F kwesch'nz

Post by Deudeditus » Mon May 01, 2006 9:08 pm

just a few from m'n'f

3alux aurea aurorae sidera quae flammis frigidis nocte fulgent vertice caeli removet
the golden light of dawn removes the constellations/stars which shine as a[cold] flame to the [cold] night from the top of the sky. I wasn't sure which one frigidis belonged to, and I'm having trouble with the double dat. construction.

si pueri felices, Roma discedentes, Athenas eant, carmina pulchra poetae [fe]ci audiant the first letters of that word are rubbed out or something, I was wondering if anyone could tell me what it said, perchance. its from ch. 8, #5

thanks

-Jon

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Post by Interaxus » Mon May 01, 2006 10:44 pm

Hi,
si pueri felices, Roma discedentes, Athenas eant, carmina pulchra poetae [fe]ci audiant the first letters of that word are rubbed out or something, I was wondering if anyone could tell me what it said, perchance. its from ch. 8, #5

Wouldn't the poet be Greek since he might be heard in Athens?

Int

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Post by Deudeditus » Mon May 01, 2006 11:40 pm

haha I didn't think about that.. makes sense. thanks

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Post by Interaxus » Tue May 02, 2006 12:12 am

Hi again,

I just dug out a copy of the book itself and checked out your reference. Turns out the guy was Greek all right. But the adjective's more specific than that. He was blind (guess who!). 8)

Int

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Re: Just a few M&F kwesch'nz

Post by Ulpianus » Tue May 02, 2006 8:27 am

Deudeditus wrote:
3alux aurea aurorae sidera quae flammis frigidis nocte fulgent vertice caeli removet
the golden light of dawn removes the constellations/stars which shine as a[cold] flame to the [cold] night from the top of the sky. I wasn't sure which one frigidis belonged to, and I'm having trouble with the double dat. construction.
Let's take it in stages. frigidis must go with flammis. It can't go with nocte because that would need to be frigida, wouldn't it (nox being feminine)?

As to the construction you describe as dative, I would take it as two separate ablative: "with cold flames" "in the night". So "Dawn's golden light removes from the top of the sky the stars which by night shine with cold flames".

That's a horrid literal translation. The sentence would need a lot of chopping about, I think, to produce smooth English. Maybe something like "High in the sky, dawn's golden light removes the stars which blaze at night with cold fire." ?

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Post by Deudeditus » Tue May 02, 2006 2:28 pm

arrgh. I feel stupid. haha. but thanks for the help. And thanks for informing me of the poet's blindity :D

-Jon

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Post by bellum paxque » Wed May 03, 2006 2:02 pm

lux aurea aurorae sidera quae flammis frigidis nocte fulgent vertice caeli removet
I remember this practice sentence quite clearly. In fact, I think I read my translation aloud to my dad, proud of the beauty of the imagery and being able to parse it.

Here's my go at a translation:

"At the golden gleam of dawn, the stars flee
From the height of the sky, flaming icily."

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Post by Deudeditus » Wed May 03, 2006 11:35 pm

speaking of this chapter,

pater meus mihi dixit Romanorum manum, factis felicem, omnem rem publicam sine mora capturam esse; numinibus enim deorum salutem eorum curae futuram esse.
my father to said to me that the band of Romans, fortunate in deeds, will capture the whole Republic without delay; [this is the part that confuses me]indeed that, to the divine spirits of the gods, their (romanorum) safety will be as a care.

well, sleep right now would be to me a care, if it would only come but for a while.
At the golden gleam of dawn, the stars flee
From the height of the sky, flaming icily
finely crafted Wael Paxque! but what is this word, parse?

-Jon

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Post by bellum paxque » Thu May 04, 2006 2:47 am

parse means, among other things, to analyze a word, phrase, or sentence for its grammar. So parsing hominis would involve identifying it as a third declension noun, masculine in gender, singular in number, genitive in case...

As for the passage in question, you have it mostly right. Cura is often used in what is called the double dative construction, one a dative of purpose, one a dative of interest. In this sentence, salutem (Romanorum) erit curae (will be for a care) numinibus (for the divine noddings/wills). A translation might be "they will be kept safe by the gods" or "the gods will keep them safe" or, if you want to render the curae more specifically, "the gods will see to their safety."

By the way, enim more commonly is translated by the conjunction "for"--ie, "...for their safety will be ensured by the gods"

-David

-David

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Post by Deudeditus » Thu May 04, 2006 6:12 pm

Thank you.

-Jon

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