Ablative of Place? The word is in the book

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blutoonwithcarrotandnail
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Ablative of Place? The word is in the book

Post by blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:59 pm

If you say that the 'word' is in the 'book' do you use the ablative of place? Or is it a different ablative or something else?

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Post by blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:24 pm

"The word is in the book" Is 'book' in the ablative form? (Libro)

"I wrote in the book" Is 'book' in ablative form? (Libro)

Is this the ablative of place (you use the word 'in') or a different ablative?

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nostos
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Post by nostos » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:06 pm

blutoonwithcarrotandnail(e) :P, it ain't a locative (ablative of place); it's just in + abl. The locative case is very specific, referring only to the names of cities, small isands, towns, and 'domus', 'humus', and 'rus', maybe a couple of other things too but basically: specific, mostly named geographical areas.

Otherwise, it's in + abl.
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Amadeus
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Post by Amadeus » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:33 pm

Hey, nostos, what is the difference between in+domo and domi? Can domus be constructed with the ablative in?
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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nostos
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Post by nostos » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:26 pm

Amadeus wrote:Hey, nostos, what is the difference between in+domo and domi? Can domus be constructed with the ablative in?
Amadeus, you can indeed use 'in domo' (+ usually an adjective like 'sua' or a genitive). The difference, according to G&L, is that 'domi' means 'at home', whereas 'in domo' means 'in the house'; so 'in domo Pericli' means 'in the house(hold) of Pericles' (§411 remark 4), 'in domo sua' means 'in his own household'.

¿Me pregunto cómo funcionaría en español? Supongo que 'en el hogar' ('domi') o 'en la casa de Pericles' ('in domo Pericli)'.
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blutoonwithcarrotandnail
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Ablative of Place

Post by blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:38 am

So in the end if you were speaking in latin is one of these better than the other:

1. Verbum Libro
2. Verbum in Libro

Did it really matter if you were just talking informally?

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Post by Lucus Eques » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:21 am

Yes, it would be the second one.

Without a præposition, a use of the ablative in this instance would indicate a sense of 'means', that the 'word' either acts or is acted upon by means of the 'book'. It does not indicate location. If not "in"+ablative, the best way to describe this would be the use of the genitive: "uerbum librī."
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blutoonwithcarrotandnail
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Time

Post by blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:59 am

What is the best way to say "In one hour"

Is it: In Una Hora

Is it the same ablative as "Verbum in Libro"

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Post by Lucus Eques » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:59 am

Distance of time in the future is expressed by means of the accusative preposition "inter," which means "between." Italian does essentially the same thing, for example. "Inter ūnam h?ram" would be the way to say this in Latin.
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Distance in past

Post by blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:33 am

If "Inter Unam Horam" is within one hour in the future, what would it be in the past, like:

"It took one hour"

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Post by Lucus Eques » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:06 am

"Necesse erat ūnam h?ram." What is it that took one hour?
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blutoonwithcarrotandnail
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Ablative

Post by blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:22 pm

Thanks.

But this is "What took one hour"

What if i want to say, "It took one hour", like, "I was reading a book and it took one hour."

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Post by Lucus Eques » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:28 pm

The accusative of duration (if there is such a term) is what is required:

Librum legēbam ūnam h?ram.

I was reading a book for an hour.
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Ablative

Post by blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:32 pm

Librum Legebam Unam Horam

Is this considered the past or present in english?

Does this translate as "I read the book and it took one hour" or does it mean "I am reading the book and it is taking one hour"

Is it truly past?

I couldn't help but notice that Legere is conjugated in the future. This is something to do even if you are talking in the past?

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Post by Lucus Eques » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:55 pm

"I was reading" and "legēbam" are in the imperfect tense, a tense which has to do with things in the past that were continuous. "Legēbam" also may be translated "I used to read" or even "I read."

The future tense would be "legēb?."

"I have read," which is the perfect tense in English, is translated with the perfect tense in Latin: "lēgī."
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blutoonwithcarrotandnail
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Ablative

Post by blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:41 pm

I didn't notice the letter 'b'. Legam would have been the future, but i missed the 'b'. Therefore, if this is the imperfect then yeah, that makes sense it is 'was'.

Librum Legabam Unam Horam: The use of the word 'was' makes me think it is #1 below

1. I was reading the book for an hour
2. I read the book for an hour

Could you say: Librum Legavi Unam Horam

This would be #2 "I read the book for one hour"

The use of the imperfect here doesn't have to happen always does it? It could be a finished action?

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Lucus Eques
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Post by Lucus Eques » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:15 pm


L. Amadeus Ranierius

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Post by Episcopus » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:30 pm

edit: bollocks!
Last edited by Episcopus on Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by whiteoctave » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:37 pm

does anyone know what q.e.d. means?

~D
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blutoonwithcarrotandnail
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Ablative

Post by blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:20 pm

Okay so, "Librum legi unam horam" means "I read the book for one hour?"

Is this correct?

The only other thing i noticed is that in my latin textbook it lists Lego, Legere, Legi as to read. Third Conjugation. This does not sound like Legare. Didn't you say Legare? That would be First Conjugation. However, you did say Legi which is third. Am i missing something?

Again, "Librum legi unam horam" means "I read the book for one hour"?

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Post by fierywrath » Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:42 am

whiteoctave wrote:does anyone know what q.e.d. means?

~D
i do! it means lucus is the such
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Post by bellum paxque » Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:55 pm

Luce:

You said that "inter unam horam" would be the way to express time within which. I always thought that the mere ablative with nouns of time could express time when or time within which. Hence, illo die non veniam is "I won't come on that day," but una hora tuum librum perlegi is "I completed your book [with]in one hour." Such, at least, was Wheelock's distinction. mene fallor?

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Post by Lucus Eques » Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:09 pm

The "ūn? h?r?" doesn't make much sense to me. That would mean "during that one hour."

Ah wait, I think there's a confusion in terms. "inter ūnam h?ram" means "an hour from now," "in an hour." In English we use different tenses to distinguish the "in" while Latin has different constructions.

To summarize:
"inter ūnam h?ram apud tē ueniam." I'll come to your place in an hour.
"ūnam h?ram apud tē fuī." I was at your place for an hour.
"e? h?r? apud tē eram." I was at your place that hour.
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