Casa, -ae

[Keesa]

:-[ Somebody encourage me...am I ever going to get that advanced? I spent the whole day in town taking a test, and didn't even do a single lesson of Latin...and that list is overwhelming! Ouch! <br /><br />Keesa

[Lumen_et_umbra]

Sorry, Keesa. Don't worry, however, it is not nearly as difficult as it may seem now. Sorry, again. Don't be discouraged.<br /><br /> ;D

[Keesa]

[quote author=Lumen_et_umbra link=board=3;threadid=477;start=15#4163 date=1061081553]<br /> it is not nearly as difficult as it may seem now. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Thank you. I needed to hear that. Tomorrow I'll get back into Latin with a vengeance...and all my other languages, too! For tonight, I'm just going to be glad that it will come in time. <br /><br />Slainte! <br /><br />Keesa

[benissimus]

Hehe... there is also a short E+x as in Iudex. Perhaps this is the reason why they define third declension by the last letter and not by the whole ending ;o

[Lumen_et_umbra]

It is inefficient and malapropos to define the 3rd declension by its very last letter in the nominative case. They may as well say, "Shove it, you idiot. learn the endings by yourself!" <br /><br />This is, counterintuitively, a good tip ; There are patterns to be recognized, which expedite the learning of the 3rd declension on one's own. Learning it with a prefabricated paradigm, such as the one I have written above, only precludes facile learning and forces one to learn by rote - the most basic and unadvanced form of learning.

[Alundis]

Here's what I got form the Words dictionary. I have no idea what use this list is, but here you go ;p<br /><br />-ha<br />ANTIPASCHA, ANTIPASCHATIS: N 3 2 N \Low Sunday in the Greek rite;<br /><br />-ma<br />ZMEGMA, ZMEGMATIS: N 3 2 N \ointment; cleansing preparation; fine slag from copper melting;<br /><br />-ra<br />SICERA, SICERATIS: N 3 2 N \kind of spiritous intoxicating drink; fermented liquor, strong drink (Souter);<br /><br />-ac<br />LAC, LACTIS: N 3 2 N \milk; milky juice of plants; spat/spawn (of oyster);<br /><br />-ec<br />HALLEC, HALLECIS: N 3 2 N \herrings; a fish sauce; pickle;<br /><br />-ic<br />CARNIC, CARNICIS: N 3 3 C \fodder plant, tree-medick Medicago arborea; wood of this; scrubby snail-clover (<br /><br />-sc<br />FASC, FASCIS: N 3 1 M \bundles of rods (w/ax) (pl.), carried before the highest magistrates of Rome;<br /><br />-ce<br />DULCE, DULCIS: N 3 4 N \a sweet drink, sweets (pl);<br /><br />-le<br />VICTUALE, VICTUALIS: N 3 4 N \provisions (pl.), victuals, sustenance;<br /><br />-me<br />DEFORME, DEFORMIS: N 3 4 N \disgrace; shameful thing/deed;<br /><br />-ne<br />TRIENNE, TRIENNIS: N 3 4 N \triennial festival (pl.);<br /><br />-pe<br />PRAESEPE, PRAESEPIS: N 3 4 N \crib, manger, stall (cattle/horses feed); brothel; haunt, lodging, home turf;<br /><br />-re<br />TRIMESTRE, TRIMESTRIS: N 3 4 N \crops ripening in 3 months; spring-sown crops;<br /><br />-te<br />TAPPETE, TAPPETIS: N 3 4 N \woolen cloth or rug used as a covering, hanging, carpet, tapestry;<br /><br />-ve<br />DECLIVE, DECLIVIS: N 3 4 N \slope, declivity; surface sloping downwards; (per decline => downwards);<br /><br />-ig<br />BITURIG, BITURIGIS: N 3 1 M \Bituriges (pl.), a people of SW Gaul, Aquitania - in Caesar's "Gallic War";<br /><br />-rg<br />TERG, TERGORIS: N 3 2 N \back (animal, meat); ridge, raised surface; far side; covering (animal/organ);<br /><br />-bi<br />STIBI, STIBIS: N 3 2 N \antimony; (used in eye-salve and makeup); stibium/sulphuret of antimony (L+S);<br /><br />-hi<br />CYPHI, CYPHIS: N 3 2 N \Egyptian perfuming powder;<br /><br />-li<br />CROTALI, CROTALIIS: N 3 4 N \ear-rings (pl.); ear pendants of several loosely hanging/rattling pearls;<br /><br />-mi<br />STIMMI, STIMMIS: N 3 2 N \antimony; (used in eye-salve and makeup); stibium/sulphuret of antimony (L+S);<br /><br />-ri<br />COMMERCARI, COMMERCARIIS: N 3 1 M \fellow-purchaser;<br /><br />-al<br />VITAL, VITALIS: N 3 4 N \grave clothes (pl.);<br /><br />-el<br />MEL, MELLIS: N 3 2 N \honey; sweetness; darling;<br /><br />-il<br />VIGIL, VIGILIS: N 3 1 M \watchman;<br /><br />-ll<br />PERDUELL, PERDUELLIS: N 3 3 M \national enemy;<br /><br />-ol<br />SOL, SOLIS: N 3 1 M \the sun;<br /><br />-ul<br />PROCONSUL, PROCONSULIS: N 3 1 M \proconsul, governor of a province;<br /><br />-em<br />EMBLEM, EMBLEMATIS: N 3 2 N \inlaid or mosaic work;<br /><br />-hm<br />DIDRACHM, DIDRACHMATIS: N 3 2 N \Greek silver coin, double drachma; (1/3000 talent) (half dollar);<br /><br />-lm<br />DIAPSALM, DIAPSALMIS: N 3 2 N \pause in music;<br /><br />-om<br />GLAUCOM, GLAUCOMIS: N 3 2 N \disease of the eye, cataract;<br /><br />-an<br />TITAN, TITANOS/IS: N 3 9 M \Titan; (one of race of gods/giants proceeding Olympians);<br /><br />-en<br />VOLUMEN, VOLUMINIS: N 3 2 N \book, chapter, fold;<br /><br />-in<br />DELPHIN, DELPHINIS: N 3 1 M \dolphin; ornament shaped like a dolphin; (part of water organ); constellation;<br /><br />-on<br />VISON, VISONTIS: N 3 1 M \bison; wild ox;<br /><br />-rn<br />UNICORN, UNICORNIS: N 3 3 M \unicorn, one-horned horse-like creature;<br /><br />-ao<br />PHARAO, PHARAONIS: N 3 1 M \Pharaoh, title of King of Egypt;<br /><br />-bo<br />UMBO, UMBONIS: N 3 1 M \boss (of a shield);<br /><br />-co<br />SALACO, SALACONIS: N 3 1 M \swaggerer, braggart;<br /><br />-do<br />VICISSITUDO, VICISSITUDINIS: N 3 1 F \change, vicissitude;<br /><br />-eo<br />LEO, LEONIS: N 3 1 M \lion;<br /><br />-fo<br />SIFO, SIFONIS: N 3 1 M \siphon; a fire-engine;<br /><br />-go<br />VORAGO, VORAGINIS: N 3 1 F \deep hole, chasm, watery hollow;<br /><br />-ho<br />SIPHO, SIPHONIS: N 3 1 M \siphon; a fire-engine;<br /><br />-io<br />VOMITIO, VOMITIONIS: N 3 1 F \vomit; vomited matter; act of vomiting;<br /><br />-lo<br />VOLO, VOLONIS: N 3 1 M \volunteers (pl.); (in the Second Punic War);<br /><br />-mo<br />TEMO, TEMONIS: N 3 1 M \pole, beam; tongue of a wagon or chariot;<br /><br />-no<br />TOLLENO, TOLLENONIS: N 3 1 M \machine for raising weights, a crane;<br /><br />-po<br />PEPO, PEPONIS: N 3 1 M \watermelon; (other such/goard); species of large melon (L+S); pumpkin;<br /><br />-ro<br />VERBERO, VERBERONIS: N 3 1 M \scoundrel;<br /><br />-so<br />PISO, PISONIS: N 3 1 M \Piso, Roman cognomen; L. Calpurnius Piso, consul 58 BC; M. Pupius Piso, 61 BC;<br /><br />-to<br />PONTO, PONTONIS: N 3 1 M \large flat boat, barge; punt; pontoon;<br /><br />-uo<br />HELLUO, HELLUONIS: N 3 1 M \glutton, squanderer;<br /><br />-vo<br />ROLVO, ROLVONIS: N 3 1 M \Rolf;<br /><br />-xo<br />COXO, COXONIS: N 3 1 M \hobbling;<br /><br />-yo<br />BOTRYO, BOTRYONIS: N 3 1 M \bunch/cluster of grapes;<br /><br />-ar<br />TORCULAR, TORCULARIS: N 3 4 N \wine/oil press; pressing room, room housing a wine/oil press; oil cellar (L+S);<br /><br />-er<br />VOMER, VOMERIS: N 3 1 M \ploughshare; stylus (for writing with (L+S); (metaphor for penis);<br /><br />-or<br />VULGATOR, VULGATORIS: N 3 1 M \divulger;<br /><br />-tr<br />TRIMETR, TRIMETRIS: N 3 1 M \trimeter;<br /><br />-ur<br />VULTUR, VULTURIS: N 3 1 M \vulture;<br /><br />-yr<br />MARTYR, MARTYRIS: N 3 1 M \martyr; witness;<br /><br />-as<br />VOLUPTAS, VOLUPTATIS: N 3 1 F \pleasure, delight, enjoyment;<br /><br />-bs<br />URBS, URBIS: N 3 3 F \city; City of Rome;<br /><br />-cs<br />ARCS, ARCIS: N 3 3 F \citadel, stronghold; height; the Capitoline hill Rome; defense, refuge;<br /><br />-es<br />XERXES, XERXIS: N 3 3 M \Xerxes; (son of Darius, King of Persia 485-465 BC); (invaded Greece 480 BC);<br /><br />-is<br />VORSIPELLIS, VORSIPELLIS: N 3 3 M \shape-changer, who can metamorphose to different shape; double-dealer (Vulgate);<br /><br />-ls<br />PULS, PULTIS: N 3 3 F \meal, porridge, mush (used in sacrifice and given to sacred chickens);<br /><br />-ms<br />HIEMS, HIEMIS: N 3 1 F \winter, winter time; rainy season; cold, frost; storm, stormy weather;<br /><br />-ns<br />VALENS, VALENTIS: N 3 1 M \Valens; (coemperor 364-378 and brother of Valentinian); (lost at Adrianople);<br /><br />-os<br />SEMISOS, SEMISSIS: N 3 1 M \half an as; half; half of any unit; 6% per annum (1/2% per month);<br /><br />-ps<br />STIRPS, STIRPIS: N 3 3 F \stock, plant; race, lineage; character;<br /><br />-rs<br />SORS, SORTIS: N 3 3 F \lot, fate; oracular response;<br /><br />-ts<br />BUCCONIATS, BUCCONIATIS: N 3 3 F \species of vine in Thurium the fruit of which is picked only after first frost;<br /><br />-us<br />VULNUS, VULNERIS: N 3 2 N \wound; mental/emotional hurt; injury to one's interests; wound of love;<br /><br />-ys<br />PELAMYS, PELAMYDIS: N 3 1 F \young tunafish;<br /><br />-at<br />SOLIDITAT, SOLIDITATIS: N 3 1 F \solidity, freedom from cavities; density/firmness of texture, solidity;<br /><br />-ct<br />LACT, LACTIS: N 3 2 N \milk; milky juice of plants; spat/spawn (of oyster);<br /><br />-ut<br />SINCIPUT, SINCIPITIS: N 3 2 N \half/side of a head (as article of food); the smoked cheek of a pig; (brain);<br /><br />-ax<br />VORAX, VORACIS: N 3 1 M \ravenous; insatiable; devouring;<br /><br />-ex<br />VORTEX, VORTICIS: N 3 1 M \whirlpool, eddy, vortex; crown of the head; peak, top, summit; the pole;<br /><br />-ix<br />VIVIRADIX, VIVIRADICIS: N 3 1 F \cutting with a root, a layer;<br /><br />-lx<br />FALX, FALCIS: N 3 3 F \sickle. scythe; pruning knife; curved blade; hook for tearing down walls;<br /><br />-nx<br />SEPTUNX, SEPTUNCIS: N 3 1 M \seven-twelfths;<br /><br />-ox<br />VOX, VOCIS: N 3 1 F \voice, tone, expression;<br /><br />-rx<br />MERX, MERCIS: N 3 3 F \commodity; merchandise )pl.), goods;<br /><br />-ux<br />TRADUX, TRADUCIS: N 3 1 M \vine-layer;<br /><br />-yx<br />SARDONYX, SARDONYCHOS/IS: N 3 9 C \sardonyx, precious stone;<br /><br />-ly<br />MOLY, MOLYOS/IS: N 3 9 N \plant (white flower and black root) (mythical used by Odysseus against Circe);<br /><br />

[Lumen_et_umbra]

Wow! My list was depressingly inadequate!<br />Though, still a decent guide to the endings found in the 3rd declension... ::I am trying to salvage some vestige of my dignity::<br /><br /> :-\

[Episcopus]

>:(<br /><br />Don't they have a REALLY mad smiley on this site? Ah this will have to suffice >:(<br /><br />This just makes me cry not 'this is easy'.

[Skylax]

[quote author=Alundis link=board=3;threadid=477;start=15#4170 date=1061091116]<br />Here's what I got form the Words dictionary. I have no idea what use this list is, but here you go ;p<br /><br />-ic<br />CARNIC, CARNICIS: N 3 3 C \fodder plant, tree-medick Medicago arborea; wood of this; scrubby snail-clover (<br /><br />-sc<br />FASC, FASCIS: N 3 1 M \bundles of rods (w/ax) (pl.), carried before the highest magistrates of Rome;<br /><br />-ig<br />BITURIG, BITURIGIS: N 3 1 M \Bituriges (pl.), a people of SW Gaul, Aquitania - in Caesar's "Gallic War";<br /><br />-rg<br />TERG, TERGORIS: N 3 2 N \back (animal, meat); ridge, raised surface; far side; covering (animal/organ);<br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Well, in the words before, the form before the one ending in -is has got no linguistic value. It is neither a stem nor a nominative singular. It is the group of letters that the computer must use to proceed with analysis. The corresponding nominatives are CARNIX (?), FASCIS, BITVRIX (but you find always the plural BITVRIGES), TERGVS (TERGVS, TERGORIS is less frequent than TERGVM, TERGI)

[Lumen_et_umbra]

Hey! You're right, Skylax. I didn't even bother to read the words in that list. They are predominatly repetitions. Besides, my inadequacy could only be in the summarization of the 3-rd declension nominative endings, not in declining and recognizing them - which really isn't difficult at all.

[Keesa]

[quote author=Lumen_et_umbra link=board=3;threadid=477;start=15#4202 date=1061126258]<br />Hey! You're right, Skylax. I didn't even bother to read the words in that list. They are predominatly repetitions. Besides, my inadequacy could only be in the summarization of the 3-rd declension nominative endings, not in declining and recognizing them - which really isn't difficult at all. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Mostly repetitions? Hurrah! You have just made me very, very happy indeed! <br /><br />Keesa

[Milito]

[quote author=Keesa link=board=3;threadid=477;start=15#4164 date=1061081709]<br />Thank you. I needed to hear that. Tomorrow I'll get back into Latin with a vengeance...and all my other languages, too! For tonight, I'm just going to be glad that it will come in time. <br /><br />Slainte! <br /><br />Keesa<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Here's a very simple way to look at 3rd declension nouns - they all have the same set of endings, which is how you know they're 3rd declension. And although they do sort of tend to mutate themselves away from their dictionary forms sometimes, you catch on pretty quickly to what they're likely to look like. So this generalization works for them:<br /><br />ENDINGS:<br /><br /> Singular Plural<br />Nom (whatever) -es (occasionally -is); -a for neuter<br />Gen -is -um (occasionally -ium)<br />Dat -i -ibus<br />Acc -em -es (occasionally -is); -a for neuter<br />Abl -e; (occasionally -i)<br /> -ibus<br /><br />Note that there aren't different endings for the different genders, with the exception of neuter plural nominative and accusative - which just uses exactly the same ending it used in second declension. That's easy, isn't it?<br /><br />Kilmeny<br />

[Episcopus]

hah that nom singular "whatever" actually helped!! <br /><br />

[Keesa]

That is easy, Milito! Thank you. The nasty 3rd declension does not seem so frightening now! In due time, I shall properly conquer it. ;D <br /><br />Keesa

[Lumen_et_umbra]

The regular rules for the third declension are:<br />(Note: to recognize a third declension noun, you must look at the genitive singular, not the nominative, because sometimes the nominative sg. of a noun resembles that of a noun of another declension. i.e., scelus (neuter) - sin, wrongdoing, evil)<br /><br />Regular MASCULINE/FEMININE nouns of the 3rd declension<br />Nom (whatever) -es<br />Gen -is -um<br />Dat -i -ibus<br />Acc -em -es<br />Abl -e -ibus<br /><br />e.g.<br /><br />Virtus, Virtutis - Virtue/Bravery/Masculinity<br /><br />Virtus Virtutes<br />Virtutis Virtutum<br />Virtuti Virtutibus<br />Virtutem Virtutes<br />Virtute Virtutibus<br /><br />Regular NEUTER nouns of the 3rd declension<br />Nom -(whatever) -a<br />Gen -is -um<br />Dat -i -ibus<br />Acc (same as the nom.) -(same as nom pl.)<br />Abl -e -ibus<br /><br />Scelus, Sceleris<br /><br />Scelus Scelera<br />Sceleris Scelerum<br />Sceleri Sceleribus<br />Scelus Scelera<br />Scelere Sceleribus<br /><br />-I stem nouns (-ium nouns) of the 3rd declension:<br /><br />There are special 3rd declension nouns, which end with -ium in the genitive plural case. Here are the rules for those:<br /><br />If a feminine or masculine noun has the same number of syllables in the nominative singular as in the genitive singular, the noun is an I-stem noun.<br /><br />Nubes (nom), Nubis(gen) Cloud<br /><br />Nubes Nubes<br />Nubis Nubium<br />Nubi Nubibus<br />Nubem Nubes<br />Nube Nubibus<br /><br />CANIS (dog) and IUVENIS (youth) are two exceptions to this rule.<br /><br />If a feminine or masculine noun ends with -s or -x in the nominative sg. and has two consonants in its stem, it ends with -ium in the gen. plural. Note: you do not often see the stem in the nominative.<br /><br />Arx, Arcis (see the two bolded consonants which comprise the stem?)<br /><br />Arx Arces<br />Arcis Arcium<br />Arci Arcibus<br />Arcem Arces<br />Arce Arcibus<br /><br />However...<br /><br />Rex, Regis - King, Ruler<br /><br />Notice that the stem does not have two consonants!<br /><br />Rex Reges<br />Regis Regum<br />Regi Regibus<br />Regem Reges<br />Rege Regibus<br /><br />NEUTER I-STEM NOUNS<br />Any third declenion neuter noun, ending with -al, -ar, or -e, will have a different ablative singular, accusative singular, nominative pl, and a different accusative pl., and, also, it will have -ium in the gen. pl.<br /><br />Animal, Animalis<br /><br />Animal Animalia<br />Animalis Animalium<br />Animali Animalibus<br />Animal Animalia<br />Animali Animalibus<br /><br />Mare, Maris<br /><br />Mare Maria<br />Maris Marium<br />Mari Maribus<br />Mare Maria<br />Mari Maribus<br /><br /><br />Summarized rules for I-stem nouns of the third declension<br /><br />Masculine and Feminine Nouns<br />Nom (blah) -es<br />Gen -is -ium<br />Dat -i -ibus<br />Acc -em -es<br />Abl -e -ibus<br /><br />Neuter Nouns<br />Nom (-al, -ar, or -e) -ia<br />Gen -is -ium<br />Dat -i -ibus<br />Acc -(same as nom.) -(same as nom. pl.)<br />Abl -i -ibus<br /><br /><br /><br />I hope this helps!

[Lumen_et_umbra]

Note: In my 'little' reference guide above, I left out EVERY macron. Sorry. I just don't have the energy to do it right now.

[bingley]

Just a thought. The genitive is the useful bit which tells us which declension a noun is, so why don't dictionaries and grammars just cut to the chase and put that first, with a note where the nom. sing. is not easily predictable. It's not as if the nom. sing. is any more common than any other case.

[Lumen_et_umbra]

That is a good point. Another thing, which I have wondered, is why dictionaries don't give the present active infinitive of deponent verbs so as to facilitate their being conjugated.<br />(I know that the present active infinitive of a deponent verb is never used, unless one counts the singular present imperative of that verb)

[Alundis]

[quote author=Skylax link=board=3;threadid=477;start=15#4196 date=1061121448]<br /><br />Well, in the words before, the form before the one ending in -is has got no linguistic value. It is neither a stem nor a nominative singular. It is the group of letters that the computer must use to proceed with analysis. The corresponding nominatives are CARNIX (?), FASCIS, BITVRIX (but you find always the plural BITVRIGES), TERGVS (TERGVS, TERGORIS is less frequent than TERGVM, TERGI) <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Thank you for correcting me. I didn't realize the words dictionary was so inaccurate--those are listed as nominative forms.

[Skylax]

I wouldn't speak of inaccuracy. After all, this dictionary isn't intended to a human user. Sometimes, the first form is a nominative (LAC LACTIS) sometimes a stem (it gives also LACT LACTIS, or BITVRIG, BITVRIGIS), sometimes a mere group of letters (TERG).<br /><br />It is a huge and remarkalble work anyway.

[Alundis]

I searched this http://users.erols.com/whitaker/dictpage.txt<br /><br />It gives different definitions for FASC, FASCIS and FASCIS, FASCIS. And also for TERG, TERGORIS; TERGUS, TERGORIS; and TERGUM, TERGI. Maybe these are rare forms?

[Episcopus]

Yes, Dr. D'Ooge said in italics "Learn the Genitive singular along with the nominative for each 3rd declension noun - it is the key to the 3rd declension"