Well then!

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Lucus Eques
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Well then!

Post by Lucus Eques » Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:30 am

So ... well then ... all righty ... now, how do I say any of that in Latin? I still am now aware of a satisfactory Latin word or phrase for the English interjection well or well then.

Italian has allora and Spanish has ahora while French has alors. Obviously those are all vulgarisms and classical Latin must have had something very different — but what?

Gratias ago cuiquam ullam ideam habet.
L. Amadeus Ranierius

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bellum paxque
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Post by bellum paxque » Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:21 pm

Quid ei qui nullam ideam habet?

Paenitet me defectus.

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Re: Well then!

Post by Democritus » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:21 pm

Maybe you can take a look at some plays by Terence or Plautus. The dialogues contain a fair amount of interjections and elliptical sentences. You might find something useful.

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benissimus
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Post by benissimus » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:41 pm

Don't join the league of misguided who say "vel tum"!
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae

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Lucus Eques
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Post by Lucus Eques » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:23 pm

benissimus wrote:Don't join the league of misguided who say "vel tum"!
You makin' fun o' me? :-P


Seriously — what about deinde ? There's got to be something.
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Post by ingrid70 » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:35 pm

'age', perhaps?

Ingrid

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Lucus Eques
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Post by Lucus Eques » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:56 pm

ingrid70 wrote:'age', perhaps?
No, that means "come on," the equivalent of the Italian "dai." (For those of you unfortunate enough to have seen the movie version of Phantom of the Opera, the Italian diva character in the beginning says "ma dai!" ["but come on!"] numerous times before walking off stage.) Thanks for the suggestion though. :-)
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Lucus Eques
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Post by Lucus Eques » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:22 am

Itaque should work pretty well, shouldn't it?
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Post by Ioannes » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:41 am

I know I use "tunc" in colloquial Latin.

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Post by adz000 » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:12 pm

I've got four you could use. They all can be filler and can roughly correspond to "OK". I'm certain that there are more.

esto
fiat
sit
placet

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Episcopus
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Post by Episcopus » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:44 pm

adz, if you don't mind my asking, who are you? Are you a teacher? Certain people are impressed by you!

P.S. cweb255 told me to tell you that bene eo tempore would work better than you examples
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Post by Lucus Eques » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:44 pm

adz000 wrote:I've got four you could use. They all can be filler and can roughly correspond to "OK". I'm certain that there are more.

esto
fiat
sit
placet
Wow! those seem neat; gratias. Can you give some examples, whether Roman testiment or merely your own inventions?
Episcopus wrote:P.S. cweb255 told me to tell you that bene eo tempore would work better than you examples
Bene eo tempore seems good; can you give an example or two of how this might be used in context?

My regards to cweb255.
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Post by adz000 » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:20 pm

Hey Episcope: I'm not a teacher, but I'm flattered someone would think I'm one. I just graduated from college here in the US, which means I'm at that awkward stage of life when I don't really know what I am. Somliga går med trasiga skor. Vem är du?

I'm not so sure about bene eo tempore, which sounds too literal. The sort of particle that I'm imagining Lucus wants will mark the end of one thought and the beginning of another and stands outside the actual discourse: "enough about this, let's talk about something else" or is just some vaguely agreeable noise that a speaker makes in order to focus attention on himself. The problem with eo tempore, itaque, deinde, tum, or tunc is that they all to varying degrees are within discourse and require continuations. Especially eo tempore which rather expects an answering cum clause. bene by itself works well. But I couldn't find an instance of bene eo tempore in the PHI corpus.

All the instances I gave work alike. You find a lot of usages like this in the comic poets, e.g.
Pseudolus, line 935
Optume habet. Esto.

But it's perhaps even more common in oratory, where it's effective at simulating vividness:

Cicero, In Verrem 2.3.71
Si magno emerat, quoniam tu es qui diligentissime pretia exquisisti, qui, ut ais, magno vendidisti, quare putabas emptori lucrum addi oportere? Esto, putabas: quam ob rem imperabas ut adderent?

"OK, you thought it"

Cicero, Phillipics 2.37.7
Ergo ego sceleratus appellor a te quem tu suspicatum aliquid suspicaris; ille qui stillantem prae se pugionem tulit, is a te honoris causa nominatur? Esto; sit in verbis tuis hic stupor: quanto in rebus sententiisque maior?

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Post by Episcopus » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:11 pm

I think I need to be a tad more candid now!

Firstly, in spite of the fact that a relatively meagre 17 million speak it, I proclaim swedish one of the most widely spoken languages on this planet! Source: textkit.com

Secondly, and perhaps more vitally, my canine bene eo tempore joke backfired, and made me look retarded, for you did not realise it to be a mere plaisante! Give me some credit adz! Not much! Just a little bit! ooh ah a little bit more! No offence, and you know my respect for your knowledge, but you looked like a twat of equal magnitude for estimating my dog latin real :P
bene eo tempore is pretty bad! Not however as bad as discete cum nos or benissimus' own sugete episcopo

Some people need to perread a primer.

luco autem reor non amplius esse falsum...

adz000, tu sugebotis!
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Post by whiteoctave » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:19 pm

aliquis uere 'bene eo tempore seems good' scripsit?
quid nobis cum talibus?

~D
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Post by adz000 » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:12 am

Of course, Episcopus, I knew that you wouldn't imagine such a translation! But cweb...that's another matter entirely. It was for that reason a cruel trick. But if I've offended, I hope that you'll consider my real fault to be a certain überzealousness in the cause of purging the world of semibarbarous Latin.

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Post by Lucus Eques » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:11 am

Episcopus wrote:luco autem reor non amplius esse falsum...
Recte dicis; heheh, ualde sum simplex, ac saepe id credo quod mihi sine risibus dicat (quamquam semper sic iocor ipse; quam ironiam!).
aliquis uere 'bene eo tempore seems good' scripsit?
quid nobis cum talibus?
Non intellegebam "bene eo tempore" significare ad uerbum "well, then" ut ludum. Nimirum id non intellexi! :-P
Last edited by Lucus Eques on Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Lucus Eques » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:44 am

Ah yes, and thank you very much for "esto"! That's quite helpful. I look forward to reading those comedies myself. Let me know if you have any other recommendations.
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