Understanding oral Latin

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Ioannes
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Understanding oral Latin

Post by Ioannes »

One of many difficulties with the Latin language is translating the sentences immediately when you hear (thus oral) them. You haven't got the time to translate them simultaneously in your head (eg. "is that they are going to", "or is it they did?") before another sentence gives you a hard time, even if you have certain reading practice.

It's logical that by listning to a lot of Latin you will understand more and more, but is there something such as a secret recipe on how to understand Latin easily by word of mouth? (even though it's a SOV language, six cases, etc.)

Dingbats
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Post by Dingbats »

I'd say practice, practice, practice.

Parthenophilus
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Post by Parthenophilus »

Do people exist who can understand Latin this way?

edonnelly
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Re: Understanding oral Latin

Post by edonnelly »

Ioannes wrote:It's logical that by listning to a lot of Latin you will understand more and more, but is there something such as a secret recipe on how to understand Latin easily by word of mouth? (even though it's a SOV language, six cases, etc.)
I think the real problem is overcoming our own habits. SOV may seem hard to someone who is used to SVO, but I suspect an anchient Roman, learning English, might be saying to himself "how can they be telling me the verb right now when I don't even know the direct object?"

I don't have much opportunity at all to hear Latin, but I think practicing with easy sentences to get your brain used to the process of hearing and understanding (without going through the conversion to your native tongue) is the best way to improve. Alas, it is much easier said than done.

Ioannes
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Post by Ioannes »

I guess he would be saying to himself (with his poor English), "when i subject don't know, how they me verb right now can be telling?"

Parthenophilus, indeed. What else is the point with recordings of latin textes etc.?:P

bellum paxque
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example of spoken latin

Post by bellum paxque »

It is my understanding that the Latin quarter in Paris derives its name from the university students who inhabited it during the medieval period. Since these students came from widely separated regions in France and abroad, the only common language that many of them possessed was Latin.

Back when the bulk of education was simply learning Latin, producing and comprehending spoken Latin fluently was not only desired but also required.

(If what I heard about the Latin quarter is apocryphal, please be so good as to correct me.)

David

chad
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Post by chad »

i remember reading that when University College (which I think was the first college at Oxford around the early 1200s) was set up, it had about 12 or so residents who were only allowed to speak greek or latin while in residence.

on a directly related point, while randomly reading a few years ago letters from the earliest students of oxford and cambridge, i read that one college had a fresher initiation where one of the seniors (who had intentionally grown his thumbnail long all year) would scratch a bleeding line from each fresher's lower lip to his chin, and then each fresher would have to scull a glass of saltwater (i.e. dribbling as he did it). one year (so a fresher proudly wrote home to his father) the freshers rebelled and beat up the seniors. to reinforce the relevance of this story, that rebellion appears to have had no lasting impact on subsequent fresher-senior power relations as far as i am aware.

Democritus
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Re: Understanding oral Latin

Post by Democritus »

Ioannes wrote:It's logical that by listning to a lot of Latin you will understand more and more, but is there something such as a secret recipe on how to understand Latin easily by word of mouth? (even though it's a SOV language, six cases, etc.)
The "secret recipe" is actually doing it, actually communicating with other real live people, using the target language. There is no substitute for this experience. I say this based on experience with modern languages.

As you do this, you start to develop memories of speaking and hearing the language, in an immediate "real-life" context. Over time it starts to sink in and you develop linguistic reflexes. It's very difficult to do this in any other way. Not impossible, but difficult.

As someone already posted, it's just a question of practise. In the case of Latin, getting the right kind of practise is very difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

Thucydides
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Post by Thucydides »

In German subordinating conjunctions have a SOV word order("weil ich Fussball spiele" usw.), and that's not too hard to pick up, so I don't see why it should be a problem in Latin. Getting the hang of a much the much freer word order of an inflected language would be quite interesting though.

Episcopus
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Post by Episcopus »

German is as natural as English as the order is strict (it can however be nasty with j'aurais du faire equivalents after subordinating conjunctions - da...machen sollen hätte) but the freedom in Latin would pose many difficulties. However, it's not asif this order is just random (see whiteoctave's point on barbam brevem habet/barbam (eius!) habet brevem) so I do not see why one couldn't become accustomed to this over time. I saw the Pope's funeral today and the Latin was comprehensible, but for the speed of delivery and italian pronunciation which admittedly threw me off a bit!

cweb255
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Post by cweb255 »

If accented properly, Latin sounds a lot like Italian. The only thing that should have really thrown you off was the c's.

Dingbats
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Post by Dingbats »

I guess they pronounce G's and AE different too... I really don't like Latin being pronounced as Italian.

Ioannes
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Post by Ioannes »

Yes, German isn't that hard thanks to the word order.
I'll I have to do, then, is speaking and listning to others in Latin.

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