Greek Iambics advice

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cclaudian
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Greek Iambics advice

Post by cclaudian »

Hey, I translated some of Aphra Behn's The Sabine War into iambics. Can I get some critiques on the Greek? Is it intelligible? The English was a bit tricky, so I'll append it at the bottom. (I should note that I don't have a huge amount of experience with Greek verse comp.)

Ρ. μὲν᾽ ἀσφαλὴς κατ᾽ οἶκον, ὦ φίλον κάρα,
ὡς θύμος ἄν σοι, μὴδ᾽ἀθυμείτω καλή
Φηλικιᾶνα. ῥύεται γὰρ ἡ πόλις
τόσοις φύλαξιν ὥστε κἂν τὸν οὐρανόν
πέρσαι Σαβῖνους ῥᾷον ἢ ῾Ρώμην ἑλεῖν.
οὐκ ἔστι λόγχαις τῶνδε τειχέων ἔσω
τὰ νῦν ἐσελθεῖν, πλὴν ἑταιρείας ὅπλων.

Η. ὦναξ, στράτευμα σοῦ χαρὶν συνάξεται
καὶ ποῦ γυναίκων. ἡδ᾽ ἔπη μυθουμένη
οὕτως ἀρείφατ᾽ ἐς τοσόνδ᾽ ἐπαίρεται
Ταρπεῖα τόλμης, ὥστε τῇδ᾽ ἰσουμένας
ἡμᾶς σθένειν ἂν γείτονας ῾Ρωμῆς κρατεῖν
ἅπαντας ἔχθρους, μὴδ᾽ ἀμύνεσθαι μόνον.

Ρ. Ἡρσίλια, μείζον᾽ ἤνυσας ἤδη κρατῆ
νικᾶς τ᾽. ἐπεὶ δὲ φαίνεται Ταρπεῖα μοι
οὕτως ἀταρβὴς, ἥδε καὶ στρατηγίας
ἁμῆς μεθέξει. τὴνδ᾽ ἔα τὴν σὴν κόρην,
Ταρπεῖ᾽, ἄποντος ἀντὶ σοῦ στρατηλαγεῖν.
νύμφαις γάρ ἐστιν ἡ μάχη. τὶ δ᾽ἀξίας
τίμης τὸ θήλυ μὴ τυχεῖν κωλύσεται;

Ο. πεμφθεὶς ὑπ᾽ἐχθρῶν Κύρτιος μένει σ᾽, ἄναξ.

Ρ. δέχου νιν ὡς τάχιστα τῶν σκηνῶν ἔσω.

Φ. φέρ’ εἰπὲ πρὸς θεῶν· ἆρα τὴν μαχήν
τὴν ἀρτίως ἀρχθεῖσαν, ὦ φίλη κάσι,
σπονδῶν ἕκατι νῦν ἔχειν τέλος χρεών;

Η.ἐπεὶ Σαβῖνα παρθένος πέφυκ᾽ ἐγώ
θέλω ποεῖσθαι πᾶσιν εἰρήνην καλῶς,
ἀλλ᾽ ὡς κυρῶ ῾Ρωμαῖα σύζυγος τὰ νῦν
νικᾶν θέλοιμ᾽ ἂν μᾶλλον ἢ θεῖναι κακήν.

Rom.
Be safe my Love as your own wish can fancy: Nor let the pretty Feliciana fear, since Rome is now so guarded, that the Sabines may as well hope to storm the Cloud as prevail here: No arms but those of friendship can pass these Walls.

Her.
I think, my Lord your cause will raise an Army even of Wo∣men. Tarpeia talks so bravely here, and in such Martial Language, that were we all like her we alone were sufficient, not only to defend our selves, but to subdue all the adjacent Enemies of Rome.

Rom.
Your Conquest, sweet Hersilia, have been already greater: And for the fair Tarpeia since she appears so brave, she too shall have a share in our Command—Tarpeius, let your Daughter act as Leiutenant in your absence: This is the Ladies War, and why should then that Sex be bar'd to share the honours of it?

Enter a Souldier.
Sol. Sabinus Curtius Sir, sent from the Enemy, attends without.

Rom.
Admit him.

Fel.
Now Sister should this War, scarce yet begun, end in a treaty?

Hers.
As I'm a Sabine by my Birth, I wish a Peace with honour, but I am more a Roman by my inclination than to desire it basely.

mwh
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Re: Greek Iambics advice

Post by mwh »

Nice work! With a few exceptions it’s technically competent (which is an unusual pleasure) and I mostly understood as I read it through without reference to the original. It’s creaky but fundamentally sound, and there are some fine touches. Too many wrong accents I’ll ignore. A few running comments:
ὡς θύμος ἄν σοι barely intelligible, but OK. (Accent θυμὸς.)
ὥστε κἂν τὸν οὐρανόν Like this the και goes with the αν not with τον ουρανον as it needs to. A pity you can’t say ωστ’ αν και. You could dispense with αν and just put και. (Cf. “It is easier for a camel …” not It would be.)
πλὴν ἑταιρείας ὅπλων very awkward. οπλοις or εταιρειοις οπλοις wd be better but not much.
καὶ ποῦ γυναίκων You mean καί που, but as with καν above the particle is awkwardly interposed.
(Ταρπεῖα surely Τάρπεια, but short –α shd be ok.)
μείζον᾽ ἤνυσας ἤδη κρατῆ. -σας cannot be long in the aor.indic. (-σα –σας σεν), unlike in the participle.
νικᾶς τ᾽. You mean νίκας τ’ (noun not verb)?
νύμφαις γάρ ἐστιν Better ταις γαρ γυναιξι.
τὶ δ᾽ἀξίας | τίμης τὸ θήλυ μὴ τυχεῖν κωλύσεται; Good. (but τί, τιμῆς, θῆλυ)
φέρ’ εἰπὲ πρὸς θεῶν· ἆρα τὴν μαχήν Defective. Did you mean ταυτην την μαχην?

I'd have thought this could also go on the Learning Greek board, which gets more attention.

cclaudian
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Re: Greek Iambics advice

Post by cclaudian »

mwh wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:41 pm Nice work! With a few exceptions it’s technically competent (which is an unusual pleasure) and I mostly understood as I read it through without reference to the original. It’s creaky but fundamentally sound, and there are some fine touches. Too many wrong accents I’ll ignore. A few running comments:
ὡς θύμος ἄν σοι barely intelligible, but OK. (Accent θυμὸς.)
ὥστε κἂν τὸν οὐρανόν Like this the και goes with the αν not with τον ουρανον as it needs to. A pity you can’t say ωστ’ αν και. You could dispense with αν and just put και. (Cf. “It is easier for a camel …” not It would be.)
πλὴν ἑταιρείας ὅπλων very awkward. οπλοις or εταιρειοις οπλοις wd be better but not much.
καὶ ποῦ γυναίκων You mean καί που, but as with καν above the particle is awkwardly interposed.
(Ταρπεῖα surely Τάρπεια, but short –α shd be ok.)
μείζον᾽ ἤνυσας ἤδη κρατῆ. -σας cannot be long in the aor.indic. (-σα –σας σεν), unlike in the participle.
νικᾶς τ᾽. You mean νίκας τ’ (noun not verb)?
νύμφαις γάρ ἐστιν Better ταις γαρ γυναιξι.
τὶ δ᾽ἀξίας | τίμης τὸ θήλυ μὴ τυχεῖν κωλύσεται; Good. (but τί, τιμῆς, θῆλυ)
φέρ’ εἰπὲ πρὸς θεῶν· ἆρα τὴν μαχήν Defective. Did you mean ταυτην την μαχην?

I'd have thought this could also go on the Learning Greek board, which gets more attention.
Thank you! This is very insightful and encouraging criticism. Just a few follow up questions.

I wasn't sure whether to follow the dictionaries in taking πλήν with a genitive. Is dative in this case permissible if you construe πλήν as a conjunction instead of preposition? When I've see πλήν used in this manner I tend to see εἰ with it - can it be used without it (not unlike nisi in Latin, which fulfills both roles by itself, I think)?

As for ἆρα τὴν μαχήν, I wanted to introduce a question with ἆρα. Does a direct question not work in this situation, as φέρ᾽ εἰπὲ πρὸς θεῶν expects an indirect Q.? And how do you mean 'defective' exactly?

Anyway, thanks again for the proof reading. I'll cross post this to the learning Greek board.

mwh
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Re: Greek Iambics advice

Post by mwh »

I was not proofreading but offering a quick constructive critique, mentioning only the most important things.

πλήν w/ dat. is fine after negative οὐκ ἔστι.

Metrically defective. φέρ’ εἰπὲ πρὸς θεῶν· ἆρα τὴν μαχήν is a foot short (scanning θεῶν monosyl., for caesura). You could add e.g. thnde after ἆρα. Nothing wrong with ἆρα per se.

cclaudian
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Re: Greek Iambics advice

Post by cclaudian »

mwh wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:03 am I was not proofreading but offering a quick constructive critique, mentioning only the most important things.

πλήν w/ dat. is fine after negative οὐκ ἔστι.

Metrically defective. φέρ’ εἰπὲ πρὸς θεῶν· ἆρα τὴν μαχήν is a foot short (scanning θεῶν monosyl., for caesura). You could add e.g. thnde after ἆρα. Nothing wrong with ἆρα per se.
I see, thanks - I missed that.

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