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Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:49 pm
by ferriculus
Salvete amici,

Convertere incepi heri orationem Gretae Thunbergis clarissimam in linguam latinam. Saltem conatus sum.

Sic incipit:

"Flagrat domus nostra. Huc veni professum domum nostram ardere.

Secundum CCNU (Consilium Climaticum Nationum Unitarum), nobis minus quam duodecim annos superesse post quos errores nostros emendare jam non poterimus. Interea, totam societatem singulariter commutanda, scilicet etiam emissiones carbonis dioxidi nostras saltem dimidio minor minuendas esse."

"Our house is on fire. I am here to say, our house is on fire.

According to the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), we are less than 12 years away from not being able to undo our mistakes. In that time, unprecedented changes in all aspects of society need to have taken place, including a reduction of our CO2 emissions by at least 50%."

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:49 am
by bedwere
commutanda --> commutandam

carbonis dioxidi --> carbonii dioxidi

minor: sane mendosum. Potestne deleri? Qua de causa nunc exstat?

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:00 pm
by ferriculus
Tibi gratias ago. "commutanda" enim stultus error est. Deinde "carbo" pro "carbonium" usus sum. Postremum, locutiones "dimidio minor" et "dimidio major" didici, sed, ut scribis, "dimidio minuere" satis esse censeor.

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:03 pm
by bedwere
ferriculus wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:00 pm
Postremum, locutiones "dimidio minor" et "dimidio major" didici, sed, ut scribis, "dimidio minuere" satis esse censeor.
Fortasse

emissiones [...] dimidio minores esse debere.

Plus autem placet gerundivus, ut scripsisti.

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:15 pm
by ferriculus
Hodie sequitur secunda orationis pars. Difficilissimae erant locutiones "tipping points", "feedback loops" atque "permafrost". Num melius consilium dare potes?

"Quod, quaeso, observate, comprehendere nec aequalitatem ad applicandum pactum Lutetiae universali ordine omnino necessariam, nec discrimina sive retroactiones, ut valde potens methanum gasum, quod a tabescente terra congelata in Arctica Regione effusum est."

"And please note that those numbers do not include the aspect of equity, which is absolutely necessary to make the Paris agreement work on a global scale. Nor does it include tipping points or feedback loops like the extremely powerful methane gas released from the thawing Arctic permafrost."

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:27 pm
by bedwere
Non intellego translationem Latinam. Neque autem textus Anglicus liquet.

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:10 pm
by ferriculus
bedwere wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:27 pm
Non intellego translationem Latinam. Neque autem textus Anglicus liquet.
Ergo translationem liberam faciam ut textus liquesceat. :)

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:11 pm
by mwh
"Our house is on fire. I am here to say, our house is on fire.
You proffer "Flagrat domus nostra. Huc veni professum domum nostram ardere.”
But it’s important not to use different words for the repeated “on fire.”
And professum is a bit too fancy. Use simple Latin for simple English.
E.g. "Flagrat domus nostra. adsum ut hoc dicam, flagrare domum nostram.”
Other approaches: aret et ardet; flammis consumitur; ....

“tipping points” and “feedback loops” will need considerable expansion for intelligibility, especially the latter. Since Latin has no comparable jargon you have to spell out what they are. (Permafrost is relatively easy. Don't be afraid of relative clauses.)
This is really too ambitious an exercise for you. I think you'll do well to use a guide to prose composition, if this is the sort of thing you want to do.

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:52 pm
by ferriculus
ferriculus wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:15 pm
"And please note that those numbers do not include the aspect of equity, which is absolutely necessary to make the Paris agreement work on a global scale. Nor does it include tipping points or feedback loops like the extremely powerful methane gas released from the thawing Arctic permafrost."

Ecce libera translatio:

Valde potens methanum gasum, quod a tabescente sempergelida terra in Arctica Regione effusum est et alii circuli vitiosi climatici poscent etiam plurimas moles ut applicetur pactum Lutetiae omnibus hominibus sine inaequalitate augente.

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:08 pm
by ferriculus
mwh wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:11 pm
Since Latin has no comparable jargon you have to spell out what they are.
(...)
This is really too ambitious an exercise for you. I think you'll do well to use a guide to prose composition, if this is the sort of thing you want to do.
Thanks for all the great comments you made here. I've just posted a new version in which I try to rephrase and spell out our modern jargon. Tell me what you think about it.

What I'm trying to do is to enlarge my vocabulary and go towards fluency (from which I am still very far) by expressing things in Latin which are important in my everyday life. I know this is a challenge for me but I will do my best to translate this text.

I don't know any guide to prose composition, but I've found here the one by Henry Carr Pearson. I will have a look, this seems very promising especially for my goal of fluency. Or would you suggest me another one?

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:10 am
by mwh
sine inaequalitate augente is more English than Latin. First you have to learn how Latin says things. You are working with the words, when you should be working with the concepts.

There are lots of books on Latin composition, most of them very old and unengaging. I don’t know Postgate’s Sermo Latinus but I expect that’s the best, for Postgate was a real Latinist. But for oral fluency you might check out Nancy Llewellyn, an enthusiast. (Full disclosure: she was a student of mine in graduate school, but she was much better at speaking Latin than me, who haven’t practiced it for decades.) These days speaking Latin is pretty much the province of Roman Catholics—and you might look at how the pope’s latinists tackle modern terms.

But for an individual to become fluent in Latin today, beyond the ability to say “The sun is shining today” or “I hate modernity,” is practically impossible. A more worthwhile aim, in my view, as well as a more attainable one, is to learn to read Latin, real Latin, with accuracy and fluency.

Things that are important to me in my daily life are tomatoes, a snow shovel, my computer, and my car. I see not the slightest reason to find latin equivalents.

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:54 am
by ferriculus
mwh wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:10 am
Things that are important to me in my daily life are tomatoes, a snow shovel, my computer, and my car. I see not the slightest reason to find latin equivalents.
That's totally up to you.
mwh wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:10 am
sine inaequalitate augente is more English than Latin. First you have to learn how Latin says things. You are working with the words, when you should be working with the concepts.
I totally agree, and this is why, next to writing, I'm also reading. But I am aware that this is not going to happen over night. And this is one of the reasons why I am here, to get advice in order to improve. Very much more helpful than to criticizing my goal would be in fact to give me hints on how Latin says this.
mwh wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:10 am
There are lots of books on Latin composition, most of them very old and unengaging. I don’t know Postgate’s Sermo Latinus but I expect that’s the best, for Postgate was a real Latinist. But for oral fluency you might check out Nancy Llewellyn, an enthusiast.
Thanks for Nancy Llewellyn's name, I will definitely have a look at her works.

Re: Flagrat domus nostra

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:45 pm
by bedwere
For Latin words for modern concepts or objects see

http://www.josephsusanka.com/lexicon