Frederick Douglass, indefinite practice

[daivid]

Ὁπκινς τοὺς δὲ δολους ἐμαστίγου ὡς μάλιστα ἐδύνατο πολλάκις, πότερον ἤσαν ἀλιτήριοι ἢ οὔ νομίζων οὕτω καὶ τούτους περιφόβους εἶναι, καὶ εἴ τις μεγάλην ἄδικον βουλεύοιτο, προκαταλαβεῖν κολάζων μικράν ἁμαρτίαν. (1.1.6+1.8.22)
ὁπότε δοκοῖ δοῦλος δυσχεραίνειν ἐξέκοψεν ἐκεῖνον τὸν ἀλάστορα.
ὁπότε δοῦλος καυχῷτο λέγων τῷ κυρίῳ ἐχειρώσατο αὐτὸν μαστιγεῖ ὡς ὑπέρφρονα ὄντα.
ὁπότε δολους παραβαίη ἐξειλεῖν τὸν πέτασον προβαίνοντος λευκοῦ ἀνθρώπου, τοὐτὸν δέοντα εὐσέβειαν ἐμαστίγωσε.
ὁπότε ἀκούοι δοῦλον δεινὸν ὄντα συνετὸν προκείμενον τρόπον διαφέροντα ἀπὸ οὕ Ὁπκινς προέκειτο, ἀεὶ ἂν ἐμαστίγωσε τοὐτὸν ἀτάσθαλον ὄντα.
ὁπότε ἀρῶν θραύσαι ἄροτρον δοῦλος ὡς ἀμελοῖ ἐμαστίγωσε τοὐτόν.
ὁπότε δὴ Ὁπκινς βούλοιτο πρόφασιν ἀεὶ αὐτὴν ηὗρεν.

This is very close to the account of Hopkin's method of managing slaves in Douglass' Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave, It is, however, significantly simplified and changed it to use the indefinite construction. The first sentence is based on two sentences from Xenophon's Anabasis so hopefully my splicing together was successful. (As I am sure Ancient Greece had many Hopkins it seemed a good choice to render into Ancient Greek.)

This is what I think the Greek means:
Hopkins his slaves whipped as often as possible whether they were innocent or not thinking thus both to terrify them and if any one should be planning a major crime to anticipate them punishing them for a small one.
Whenever a slave seemed discontented he would beat out the devilish spirit.
Whenever a slave should speak loudly while speaking to the master he would subdue him using-a-whip as arrogant.
Whenever a slave neglected to remove his hat when a white man approached this one, lacking in respect he whiped
Whenever he heard a slave terribly cleaver being propose a method difering from the one Hopkins proposed, always he would whip him presumptions being.
Whenever plowing a slave broke a plow he would whip him as careless.
Whenever Hopkins wanted a pretext he found one.

[mahasacham]

Ὁπκινς τοὺς δὲ δολους ἐμαστίγουν ὡς μάλιστα ἐδύνατο πολλάκις, πότερον ἤσαν ἀλιτήριοι ἢ οὔ νομίζοντες οὕτω καὶ τούτους περιφόβους εἶναι, καὶ εἴ τις μεγάλην ἁμαρτίαν βουλεύοιτο, προκαταλαβεῖν κολάζων μικράν.

I would have used ἄδικον instead of ἁμαρτίαν. The reason being is that I tend to see ἁμαρτίαν used to indicated something more unintended but the βουλεύοιτο seems to indicate that the ἁμαρτίαν is more pre-meditated.

Also another cool thing to consider when translating stuff is to see if there is a katheravousa translation of it already. For instance I found an old katheravousa translation of John Bunyan's "The Pilgrim's Progress" the other day that could easily be pruned into Ancient Greek by adding some indefinite clauses and idioms and replacing some of the "δεν"s and "να"s scattered around.

https://books.google.com/books?id=pDVkA ... A5&f=false

[daivid]

EDIT Rather than produce multiple versions I have removed the version originally here and have edit the original.

I would have used ἄδικον instead of ἁμαρτίαν. The reason being is that I tend to see ἁμαρτίαν used to indicated something more unintended but the βουλεύοιτο seems to indicate that the ἁμαρτίαν is more pre-meditated.

The offenses that the slaves were being punished for were unitended but the major offense that Hopkins feared would have been pre-meditated so I have adopted your suggestion above. Thanks, it was much appreciated.

Also another cool thing to consider when translating stuff is to see if there is a katheravousa translation of it already. For instance I found an old katheravousa translation of John Bunyan's "The Pilgrim's Progress" the other day that could easily be pruned into Ancient Greek by adding some indefinite clauses and idioms and replacing some of the "δεν"s and "να"s scattered around.

I chose that passage as my model from Douglas because it lens itself to an indefinite construction but Douglas himself uses conditionals (though indefinite do seem to me to be closely related to conditionals) . If Douglas' work was translated into katheravousa I imagine it would keep closer to the original and probably not a good starting point for me given a major aim was to illustrate the indefinite.

[John W.]

Daivid - I'm afraid I haven't got time at the moment to go through this in detail, but there do seem to be some issues (e.g. of agreement) to address. For example, the start of the first sentence must mean 'Hopkins whipped his slaves' - so why ἐμαστίγουν (plural)? And why νομίζοντες (again plural), when it must be Hopkins himself doing the thinking?

Perhaps someone else could chip in on other points.

John

[daivid]

Daivid - I'm afraid I haven't got time at the moment to go through this in detail, but there do seem to be some issues (e.g. of agreement) to address. For example, the start of the first sentence must mean 'Hopkins whipped his slaves' - so why ἐμαστίγουν (plural)? And why νομίζοντες (again plural), when it must be Hopkins himself doing the thinking?

Perhaps someone else could chip in on other points.

John

In the original bit of Xenophon it is plural and I overlooked the need to change it. Thanks very much for spotting that. The first version has been changed.

[MarkAntony198337]

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