study a NT book

Are you learning Koine Greek, the Greek of the New Testament and most other post-classical Greek texts? Whatever your level, use this forum to discuss all things Koine, Biblical or otherwise, including grammar, textbook talk, difficult passages, and more.
GTM
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Re: study a NT book

Post by GTM » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:37 pm

modus.irrealis

I apologize for not responding to your posts. My internet connection was down in the area and we just got it up and running.

GTM

modus.irrealis
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Re: study a NT book

Post by modus.irrealis » Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:10 am

There's no need to apologize. I just hope we keep the discussion going :D.

GTM
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Re: study a NT book

Post by GTM » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:25 am

modus.irrealis

You sure posted a few questions. Maybe we should attempt to work through this one, verse by verse, if that is possible.

Question you asked:
2) Do τεκνία (= παιδία?), πατέρες and νεανίσκοι refer to different people or to the same people but in different functions? In either case, the three labels aren't ordered by age, so why this ordering? I thought that you maybe have τεκνία ~ sins forgiven (~ baptized) >>> πατέρες ~ knowledge of God (~ chrism?) >>> νεανίσκοι ~ victorious over Satan (~ ?) as sort of a progression in faith. But what do the labels mean?
12 γράφω ὑμῖν, τεκνία, ὅτι ἀφέωνται ὑμῖν αἱ ἁμαρτίαι διὰ τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ.

I lean towards the idea that the shift in use from παιδία to τεκνία might suggest new Christians. This is just an idea that I am throwing out there just to get some response. Here is the reason for this idea. ἀφέωνται in verse 12 is in the perfect tense which seems to carry a different idea from that of 1 John 1:9. 1 John 1:9 speaks of continual forgiveness. That isn't the case in 2:12. He seems to focus more on the act of forgiveness which seems to speak of conversion. I may be wrong but hey it is a starting point.

GTM

GTM
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Re: study a NT book

Post by GTM » Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:17 am

I am not sure who to contact, but I know a Gentleman who has attempted to join this forum twice and hasn't heard back . Who do I speak with on this matter?

GTM

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Re: study a NT book

Post by Bert » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:50 am

GTM wrote:I am not sure who to contact, but I know a Gentleman who has attempted to join this forum twice and hasn't heard back . Who do I speak with on this matter?

GTM
Probably William Annis.

GTM
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Re: study a NT book

Post by GTM » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:33 am

Bert

Thank You for your post

GTM

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Re: study a NT book

Post by GTM » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:07 am

modus.irrealis

I have been thinking about your question.

Do τεκνία (= παιδία?)

What are your thoughts on that? Do you sense that the whole Christian community was being addressed here including more mature or older children?

GTM

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Re: study a NT book

Post by modus.irrealis » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:43 pm

GTM wrote:modus.irrealis

I have been thinking about your question.

Do τεκνία (= παιδία?)

What are your thoughts on that? Do you sense that the whole Christian community was being addressed here including more mature or older children?
He does use both τεκνία and παιδία to address his readers elsewhere in the letter, so I think the terms can be applied to the entire community, although I'm not sure if they do so in these verses here.

About your earlier post, I think you're right about the use of the perfect there, but do you think he's addressing just converts there or is he addressing everyone in their functions of having been converts?

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Re: study a NT book

Post by GTM » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:15 pm

modus.irrealis

you asked:
About your earlier post, I think you're right about the use of the perfect there, but do you think he's addressing just converts there or is he addressing everyone in their functions of having been converts?
As I ponder verse 12

12 Γράφω ὑμῖν, τεκνία, ὅτι ἀφέωνται ὑμῖν αἱ ἁμαρτίαι διὰ τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ.

that is a good question. Before I attempt to answer it, I might need some clarification from you. Could you define function as you have presented it in this question?

GTM

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Re: study a NT book

Post by GTM » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:31 am

modus.irrealis

I think that I see a theme in these verses (12-14)

Is it possible that in verse 12 John is speaking of new Christians and not necessarily childern?

here is my thought

Γράφω ὑμῖν, τεκνία, ὅτι ἀφέωνται ὑμῖν αἱ ἁμαρτίαι διὰ τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ.

As baby Christians we need to be reminded that it is by His name and His only that we are saves. Also as I have already mentioned , there is the use of the perfect tense for ἀφέωνται which clerly points to the instantaneous act of salvation.

In verse 13 we see
13 Γράφω ὑμῖν, πατέρες, ὅτι ἐγνώκατε τὸν ἀπ' ἀρχῆς.

This verse points to the idea that whoever this group is, they have ἐγνώκατε τὸν ἀπ' ἀρχῆς.

Now if I were to take a guess at this I might conclude that it takes years of walking with Him to really know Him. Maybe I am wrong here.

Γράφω ὑμῖν, νεανίσκοι, ὅτι νενικήκατε τὸν πονηρόν

Who is the one that usually has the most difficulty with τὸν πονηρόν?
Young men are faced with many worldly temptations, more so than an old man.

Well lets see if anyone throws rocks at me for this one. :shock:

GTM

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