Page 1 of 1

ἁρπαζω in TDNT

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:12 pm
by Phil T
Would it be possible for anyone to post the definition of ἁρπαζω from the Big Kittle (TDNT)? (I know this dictionary is quite problematic - I am just curious :?

Re: ἁρπαζω in TDNT

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:22 pm
by Markos
Phil T wrote:Would it be possible for anyone to post the definition of ἁρπαζω from the Big Kittle (TDNT)?
It would be possible, yes, but I wonder whether that would violate the spirit or the letter of copy right infringement.

I can summarize what Werner Foerster says. He says ἁρπάζω in Mt. 11:12 is "difficult" and probably means either: 1. the Kingdom of God is not something that a violent man (i.e. a Zealot) can snatch away for himself. 2. The Kingdom of God "demands resolute earnestness on the part of men if they are to enter it." He favors the latter.
Phil T wrote:I know this dictionary is quite problematic...
With problems like this, who needs solutions?

Re: ἁρπαζω in TDNT

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:45 pm
by C. S. Bartholomew
TDNT is an an anchor which holds down the bottom shelf of a bookcase. On average I look at it twice a year. By comparison I look at Louw & Nida every day. Citing snippets from Louw & Nida doesn't reflect intended use of the dictionary. The entries in each of the domains need to be studied in reference to the other members of their domains.

[quote]L&N (abbreviated)

18.4 ἁρπάζω: to grab or seize by force, with the purpose of removing and/or controlling — ‘to seize, to snatch away, to take away.

37.28 ἁρπάζω: to gain control over by force — ‘to gain control over, to seize, to snatch away.’

39.49 ἁρπάζω: to attack, with the implication of seizing
It is also possible that in Mt 11:12 ἁρπάζω is to be understood in the sense of ‘attack’: βιασταὶ ἁρπάζουσιν αὐτήν ‘violent men attack it.’

57.235 ἁρπάζω; ἁρπαγμός, οῦ m; ἁρπαγή, ῆς f: to forcefully take something away from someone else, often with the implication of a sudden attack — ‘to rob, to carry off, to plunder, to forcefully seize.’

Re: ἁρπαζω in TDNT

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:59 am
by Phil T
Thanks to both you for these entries and thoughts. The long march of research continues...

Re: ἁρπαζω in TDNT

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:13 pm
by Markos
Mt. 11:12: ἀπὸ δὲ τῶν ἡμερῶν Ἰωάννου τοῦ βαπτιστοῦ ἕως ἄρτι ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν βιάζεται, καὶ βιασταὶ ἁρπάζουσιν αὐτήν.
1 Thes 4:17: ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ Κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα, καὶ οὕτω πάντοτε σὺν Κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.
Phil T wrote:The long march of research continues...
As part of your research, you might want to read John Donne...
Batter my heart, three-person'd God, for you
As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
That I may rise and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend
Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.
I, like an usurp'd town to another due,
Labor to admit you, but oh, to no end;
Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,
But is captiv'd, and proves weak or untrue.
Yet dearly I love you, and would be lov'd fain,
But am betroth'd unto your enemy;
Divorce me, untie or break that knot again,
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.
...and ask yourself, as to the crux of Mt. 11:12, if the Kingdom of God more likely belongs to those who batter or to those who are ravished.